Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?

MMXX said:

Yep. And virtually no Christians came to know the truth about that until
a prophetess started having visions 19 centuries after Christianity started.

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Which visions contradict the NT. . .ergo, false prophet.

MMXX said:

Well since you say my statement of "so then you and SDA do believe that Christians have to keep the Saturday sabbath to be saved" is a misrepresentation no one believes. Then obviously the alternative that you and SDA don't believe that Christians have to keep the Saturday sabbath to be saved, must be correct, so that means we are in agreement.

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At last!

klutedavid said:

The Didache
But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [A.D. 70]).

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Yep, and if the Didache was written in 70 AD, it's probably the earliest reference to "the Lord's Day".

Torah Keeper said:

Have you even read the Bible? All of the first Christians were Jews. They were called the sect of the Nazarenes. It wasn't until Antioch that they (Jewish believers in Yeshua) were first called Christians.

So, don't play that game.

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They were Jewish Christians, yes. There have been Jewish Christians throughout two thousand years.

Messianic Judaism, however, did not exist until last century.

-CryptoLutheran

MMXX said:

Yep. And virtually no Christians came to know the truth about that until a prophetess started having visions 19 centuries after Christianity started.

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There has always been Christians who have known the Truth and followed God's Word, but it's always been a remnant, not the popular mainstream belief system. Paul predicted a great falling away from sound doctrine 1 Timothy 4:1-2 2 Timothy 4:3-4 . Today there is still a remnant of the true church as noted in scripture and what characteristics the remnant church has:

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. i.e Spirit of Prophecy Revelation 19:10

You can find all throughout the centuries people keeping the commandments of God which of course includes the 4th Sabbath commandment written by the finger of God, not written by a human.

ViaCrucis said:

They were Jewish Christians, yes. There have been Jewish Christians throughout two thousand years.

Messianic Judaism, however, did not exist until last century.

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Prior to the Messianic Judaism movement which started in the 1960s, Jewish converts assimilated into gentile Christianity.

MMXX said:

Prior to 1960 Jewish converts assimilated into gentile Christianity.

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There were Hebrew Christian associations in the 19th and early 20th century; but for most of the last 2 thousand years, Christianity has just been Christianity. Neither Gentile nor Jewish, because there is neither Jew nor Greek, but only the baptized believer in Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

There were Hebrew Christian associations in the 19th and early 20th century; but for most of the last 2 thousand years, Christianity has just been Christianity. Neither Gentile nor Jewish, because there is neither Jew nor Greek, but only the baptized believer in Jesus.

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But Christianity was never Judaism.

MMXX said:

But Christianity was never Judaism. Judaism plus belief in Jesus as the Messiah didn't really get rolling until the 1960s.

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Correct. Jewish Christians who continued to practice Jewish customs and hold strong to their Jewish heritage have been part of Christianity since the beginning, and historically this is verifiable. For example the Knanaya people of India are the descendants of a group of Syriac Christians of Jewish heritage from Mesopotamia who migrated to India sometime between the 4th and 8th centuries and are part of the larger Mar Thoma Christian community there. However, they were not "Messianic Jews"; they were Christians, they practiced Christianity. They didn't appropriate contemporary Jewish cultural norms and then say they practiced Judaism plus Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

LoveGodsWord said:

You misunderstand what was posted to you Carl. The application of the scriptures that were shared I included myself. We can all be hard hearted because we have a sinful nature. I apologize if you took my post the wrong way as that was not the purpose. I noticed you left out the last sentence in my post while quoting me, was there a reason for that?

Take Care.

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...the reason is that you have constantly taken the position that you have God's word on a subject and others don't so a discussion becomes almost impossible.

forgive me if I digress, but I have often wondered why SDA's don't attend synagogue - It seems to me that you would be in a strong position to introduce Messiah Jesus to the Jews as the early Christians did...

SabbathBlessings said:

There has always been Christians who have known the Truth and followed God's Word, but it's always been a remnant, not the popular mainstream belief system. Paul predicted a great falling away from sound doctrine 1 Timothy 4:1-2 2 Timothy 4:3-4 . Today there is still a remnant of the true church as noted in scripture and what characteristics the remnant church has:

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. i.e Spirit of Prophecy Revelation 19:10

You can find all throughout the centuries people keeping the commandments of God which of course includes the 4th Sabbath commandment written by the finger of God, not written by a human.

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Are SDA's strong in the Spirit of Prophesy ?

Can you give examples?

Carl Emerson said:

Are SDA's strong in the Spirit of Prophesy ?

Can you give examples?

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I think when Jesus comes it is all going to get sorted out including who are prophets for Jesus as He is our righteous Judge and no one else.

This is a good warning though for those who are not from God:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Take care.

SabbathBlessings said:

I think when Jesus comes it is all going to get sorted out including who are prophets for Jesus as He is our righteous Judge and no one else.

This is a good warning though for those who are not prophets:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Take care.

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OK so it sounds like you are not sure about what is prophetic at this stage.

Yet the SDA movement rests on the teachings of one who was considered prophetic.

Carl Emerson said:

OK so it sounds like you are not sure about what is prophetic at this stage.

Yet the SDA movement rests on the teachings of one who was considered prophetic.

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Oh, I'm very sure re the Spirit of Prophecy and the SDA church, not sure discussing it with a non-believer of the SDA will be very fruitful. We can't even get past basic scripture, so not sure going deeper makes a whole lot of sense.

SabbathBlessings said:

Oh, I'm very sure re the Spirit of Prophecy and the SDA church, not sure discussing it with a non-believer of the SDA will be very fruitful. We can't even get past basic scripture, so not sure going deeper makes a whole lot of sense.

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I thought it was a pretty straight forward question...

If the SDA movement is of God I would expect a prophetic component to be evidenced.

Carl Emerson said:

I thought it was a pretty straight forward question...

If the SDA movement is of God I would expect a prophetic component to be evidenced.

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I gave a straightforward answer.

The evidence is overwhelming. But if we can't get past this very straightforward scripture written by the finger of God, there is no point going there.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

OK here is a basic scripture...

1 Cor 9:

19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

See how Paul clearly states he is not under the Law.

See how Paul states he is instead under the Law of Christ.

Carl Emerson said:

OK here is a basic scripture...

1 Cor 9:

19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

See how Paul clearly states he is not under the Law.

See how Paul states he is instead under the Law of Christ.

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Paul said a lot of things that many misunderstand and misuse to their own destruction, even in his day.

This was what Peter wrote about Paul's writings which is still happening today

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The wicked here means lawless. Paul did not teach lawlessness which he tells us in his own words:
What matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

Christ and God are One so there is no conflict between the law of Christ and God.

Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16, John 15:10, the apostles is our example who kept the Sabbath preaching to Jews and Gentile every Sabbath Acts 18:4. The Sabbath will continue as God's chosen day of worship for eternity just like God promised Isaiah 66:23, Exodus 31:16

We if can't get past these easy scriptures, going deeper does not make sense. We will have to agree to disagree. Take care.

Carl Emerson said:

...the reason is that you have constantly taken the position that you have God's word on a subject and others don't so a discussion becomes almost impossible.

forgive me if I digress, but I have often wondered why SDA's don't attend synagogue - It seems to me that you would be in a strong position to introduce Messiah Jesus to the Jews as the early Christians did...

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I have never taken any such position. SDA's do not follow Judaism they follow the bible and are Christian. A Jew in the new covenant is not one that is born of the seed of Abraham but all those who have been born in the Spirit by believing and following what Gods' Word says (Romans 2:28-29).

MMXX said:

Well since you say my statement of "so then you and SDA do believe that Christians have to keep the Saturday sabbath to be saved" is a misrepresentation no one believes. Then obviously the alternative that you and SDA don't believe that Christians have to keep the Saturday sabbath to be saved, must be correct, so that means we are in agreement.

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No, according to the scriptures all those who continued in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word will not be saved according to Hebrews 10:26-27. Please see post # 110 linked; post 114 linked and post # 115 linked. What is it there that you are not in agreement with?