The first day of the week -- vs -- "the Lord's day" or the new "Sabbath" in the NEW Testament

BobRyan

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i. The new covenant does not do away with or renounce the law. It makes the law closer and more important by setting it in the mind and heart
so say we all
That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
, instead of on a stone tablet or page. “It would no longer be like the external one made with the fathers, but spiritual and internal, and based on an intimate knowledge of Jehovah.” (Morgan)
so say we all
That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
ii. “Obedience to the Law is not a prior condition for entering the New Covenant. Rather, it is one of the promised blessings of the New Covenant.” (Ryken)
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
iii. “Things required by the law are bestowed by the gospel. God demands obedience under the law: God works obedience under the gospel. Holiness is asked of us by the law: holiness is wrought in us by the gospel.” (Spurgeon)
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
iv. Here, the heart is written upon in a good, positive sense. “The heart as a writing material is spoken of in Jeremiah 17:1 in relation to sin.” (Thompson)

e. I will be their God, and they shall be My people: The new covenant brings new relationship with God. Those connected to God by the new covenant have personal, close relationship with God that they did not have before: they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

i. Notably, this relationship with God had a personal aspect (they all show know Me). “Probably the most significant contribution which Jeremiah made to religious thought was inherent in his insistence that the new covenant involved a one-to-one relationship of the spirit.
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel

All of the OT saints in Heb 11 were made so - by the one any only Gospel found in both OT and NT.

Gal 3:8 the "Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"
There is no record of a sabbath being observed before the children of Israel leaving Egypt.
There is no record of taking a bath before the time of Moses in the Nile... but it does not mean it did not happen.
There IS THE SABBATH sanctified and made a holy day of observance in Gen 2:2-3 as Ex 20:11 demands that the reader admit.
 
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TPop

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Instead of looking at the legal details of the NC lets look at the results of the NC.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Notice the result of having the law of God written in the hearts of the participants is to know who God is.

Now look at what Jesus said about knowing God.

John 17: 1 THESE words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Notice the exact parallel between the two passages about knowing God? Jesus said to know God is life eternal. Thus salvation is all about knowing God. No more and no less Having the law of God written in our hearts as promised in the NC equals salvation.

Your post was so long I had to delete the end of it or the software ran into an 18,000 character limit.

I'm sorry. I already addressed Jer 31:31-34 in detail.

This is where you or Bob respond to my specific reply. Not ignore it and and start posting more input for me to respond to.

Peace and Blessings
 
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Gary K

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I'm sorry. I already addressed Jer 31:31-34 in detail.

This is where you or Bob respond to my specific reply. Not ignore it and and start posting more input for me to respond to.

Peace and Blessings
You have never addressed the NC from the perspective of the results of the NC. At least not on this forum.
 

TPop

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What they simply say is exactly the point... and is why so many in opposition to those texts find it so difficult to even quote the points made.

So then lets go to the OP statements you omit.

What they simply say is exactly the point... and is why so many in opposition to those texts find it so difficult to even quote the points made.

So your personal rules are that others have to quote your every specific word and sentence to be a valid response.
I'm sorry.
  1. You need to tell people that.
  2. You don't actually get to set the rules of discussion.
  3. You don't get to imply invalidation because people do not quote your every word and sentence.
  4. You don't even follow your own rules.
My post stated:

"Post 2 is a very direct response to your 1-7.
By the same token there is not one text in the new covenant that says we are to worship on Saturday.

Your statements 1 through 7 demonstrate nothing more than what they simply say. Which is not an affirmation of what you believe. Simply what you post arguing that is supports your beliefs."


You don't get to complain that people don't quote you when you cut out my actual response. It's disingenuous at a minimum and more likely points to dishonesty. With your track record, its the latter.

Zero point continuing until you can get yourself straightened out and observe your own rules first.

Peace and Blessings
 
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TPop

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You have never addressed the NC from the perspective of the results of the NC. At least not on this forum.
I responded directly to the post. With commentary directly on the verses. Perhaps you are taking the verses out of context.

I absolutely have. The NC is about Love. Not law. The NC delivers us from the Law through Grace. The Holy Spirit now directs us. Not the law. It is your side that cannot talk about the NC without the topic of the law. The rest of us have no problem with that.

Peace and Blessings
 
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Gary K

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I responded directly to the post. With commentary directly on the verses. Perhaps you are taking the verses out of context.

I absolutely have. The NC is about Love. Not law. The NC delivers us from the Law through Grace. The Holy Spirit now directs us. Not the law. It is your side that cannot talk about the NC without the topic of the law. The rest of us have no problem with that.

Peace and Blessings
So long.
 
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BobRyan

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iii. “Things required by the law are bestowed by the gospel. God demands obedience under the law: God works obedience under the gospel. Holiness is asked of us by the law: holiness is wrought in us by the gospel.” (Spurgeon)
agreed -

Interesting that you would quote Spurgeon -- since you seem to reject his writing section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith where he informs us that all TEN of the Ten Commandments are given to mankind in Eden and applicable to all mankind to this very day. (as does D.L. Moody make that same point in his sermon on the TEN Commandments)


I responded directly to the post. With commentary directly on the verses.
It appears you skipped to important details in those cases as my response to your commentary references show #81 - and as we see in the example regarding Spurgeon's position in this post.
 
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BobRyan

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So your personal rules are that others have to quote your every specific word and sentence to be a valid response.
My observation is that when folks find part of my OP to be irrefutable they avoid it like ti does not exist rather than addressing even one detail in the part they refuse to quote.

My post stated:

"Post 2 is a very direct response to your 1-7.
Post 2 is a great example of post not addressing a single detail in points 1-7 of the OP.

Except to say "By the SAME TOKEN" and then reaching out for some statement not in the OP at all - as if to say "fine those are all true but I think this next point is also true - by the same token"

Your claim that - such an AGREEMENT form of statement -- is your idea of providing some kind of proof of some flaw in the OP statements you still do not quote -- even now.
By the same token there is not one text in the new covenant that says we are to worship on Saturday.
There is not one statement in the NT as a direct quote of the 3rd commandment "do not take God's name in vain" but that is not proof that it was abolished at the cross. And a lot of Christians know it.

By contrast the Sabbath commandment is quoted from a number of times in the NT and we have Is 66:23 saying all mankind keeps the Sabbath as a day of worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" in the NEW Earth - for all eternity after the cross.
 
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BobRyan

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I responded directly to the post. With commentary directly on the verses. Perhaps you are taking the verses out of context.

I absolutely have. The NC is about Love. Not law.
In the actual quote of the actual NC Jer 31:31-34 (unchanged in Heb 8:6-12) we find LAW written on the heart - even your own comment on it could not refute the point as we have already seen.

Even your own reference source - C.H.Spurgeon, makes the SAME point that the Ten Commandment LAW of God given in Eden applies to all mankind AND is written on the heart (new Covenant) for the saints.

You cant solve the problem by digging the whole deeper.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm sorry. I already addressed Jer 31:31-34 in detail.
Detail that actually agreed with our position so far -- as already noted here #81 -

You can't refute my position by finding points of agreement with it. Details matter.

============ 81 explicitly shows the agreed upon points so not sure why you keep bringing it up as if it i helping your opposition


i. The new covenant does not do away with or renounce the law. It makes the law closer and more important by setting it in the mind and heart
so say we all
That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
, instead of on a stone tablet or page. “It would no longer be like the external one made with the fathers, but spiritual and internal, and based on an intimate knowledge of Jehovah.” (Morgan)
so say we all
That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
ii. “Obedience to the Law is not a prior condition for entering the New Covenant. Rather, it is one of the promised blessings of the New Covenant.” (Ryken)
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
iii. “Things required by the law are bestowed by the gospel. God demands obedience under the law: God works obedience under the gospel. Holiness is asked of us by the law: holiness is wrought in us by the gospel.” (Spurgeon)
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel
iv. Here, the heart is written upon in a good, positive sense. “The heart as a writing material is spoken of in Jeremiah 17:1 in relation to sin.” (Thompson)

e. I will be their God, and they shall be My people: The new covenant brings new relationship with God. Those connected to God by the new covenant have personal, close relationship with God that they did not have before: they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

i. Notably, this relationship with God had a personal aspect (they all show know Me). “Probably the most significant contribution which Jeremiah made to religious thought was inherent in his insistence that the new covenant involved a one-to-one relationship of the spirit.
so say we all

That's why the NC is Old Testament and there is only ONE Gospel

All of the OT saints in Heb 11 were made so - by the one any only Gospel found in both OT and NT.

Gal 3:8 the "Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Heb 4:2 "The Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"
 
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BobRyan

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So your personal rules are that others have to quote your every specific word and sentence to be a valid response.
My observation is that when folks find part of my OP to be irrefutable they avoid it like ti does not exist rather than addressing even one detail in the part they refuse to quote.

My post stated:

"Post 2 is a very direct response to your 1-7.
Post 2 is a great example of post not addressing a single detail in points 1-7 of the OP.


By the same token there is not one text in the new covenant that says we are to worship on Saturday.
1. Not one direct quote of "do not take God's name in vain" in the new testament - does not mean we are suppose to take His name in vain - as we all know.

2. Many instances of Sabbath services "every Sabbath" with gospel preaching to gentiles and Jews Acts 18:4 (Acts 13, Acts 17 ...) - not one such weekly example for any other week day in all of the NT.

3. Every reference to weekly Sabbath service in the NT is a reference to the seventh day,

4. For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where "the first commandment with a promise is - Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2 since in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Bible details continue to matter - no matter that some folks find them inconvenient to quote or discuss.
 
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BobRyan

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I used quotes. Because preaching the Law or Sabbath is not gospel, of course.
Until you read the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 where we find the Law written on heart and mind.
Until you read Rom 8:4-13 where we find that only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"
Until you read Rom 2 where we find the new heart given to the saints - with the Law of God written on the heart.

Bible Details about the Law of God that even the Sunday groups admit.

no wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..
 
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Bob S

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Until you read the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 where we find the Law written on heart and mind.
The proof of what is written on our hearts is the results of how people approach Jesus. There is absolutely nothing pricking our minds to
be drawn to the Sabbath of the old covenant given ONLY to Israel. Love is what is written on our hearts.
Until you read Rom 8:4-13 where we find that only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"
Until you read Rom 2 where we find the new heart given to the saints - with the Law of God written on the heart.

Bible Details about the Law of God that even the Sunday groups admit.

no wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
I guess none of your examples below read in 2Cor3:6-11 where Paul calls the ten the ministry of death and goes on to explain they were only temporary and have been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Either that or they were in denial like SDAs.
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:

Until you read the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 where we find the Law written on heart and mind.
The proof of what is written on our hearts is the results of how people approach Jesus.
Not true at all.

Some embraced Him without reservation and some rejected Him outright.

"He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

(Or did you mean that since BOTH of those groups went to church on Sabbath - that the Sabbath is written on the heart???)
There is absolutely nothing pricking our minds to
be drawn to the Sabbath
On the contrary "If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
of the old covenant given ONLY to Israel
True of "Do not take God's name in vain" -- as some have noted that there is no quote of it in the NT.
True of the "New Covenant" Jer 31:31-34 (Heb 8) given only to "Judah and the house of Israel". (Even though most of us also know that it is for all mankind who choose the Gospel)

But Jesus said it is "NOT TRUE" of the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27.
.
I guess none of your examples below read in 2Cor3:6-11 where Paul calls the ten the ministry of death

Let's see what you do when we fully quote 2 Cor 3:6-11 and explore what Paul is saying.


God's Law included "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 that condemns all mankind who sin - to death.
Rom 3:19-20 points this out as well.

That is not a "funny kind of argument" that means Christians are free to take God's name in vain , because for Christians - the Law of God is written on the heart as Paul points out in Romans 2 and Heb 8 -- just as the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 says.

Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12


Either that or they were in denial like SDAs.
I find your frequent pejoratives to be less-than convincing, to objective unbiased readers.
 
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BobRyan

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Adding this to OP =

after this ending statement
=================================


No wonder - almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today - the list includes;
  • The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
  • The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
  • Voddie Baucham
  • C.H. Spurgeon
  • D.L. Moody
  • Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
  • D. James Kennedy
  • R.C. Sproul
  • (others...)
* - unit of TEN in verbatim unchanged form or else "edited" by man's tradition

============================== am adding ...

Those groups above are at some level of agreement with Michael Youssef of Leading The Way ministries as we see here --
The Ten Commandments (Part 5)
 
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BobRyan

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updating this segment in the OP

=========== by contrast EVERY reference to the weekly Sabbath in the NT refers to the seventh day of the week - Saturday

Acts 18:4 4 And he (the Apostle Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks."

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.

Which is inline with Is 66:23 where we find that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth of Rev 21 - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" (far from it being deleted 2000 years ago)


The verses in the OP have nothing to do with specific SDA teaching you are trying to teach here. They are not about keeping sabbath

Your post expresses a lot of "hope" that despite the texts and irrefutable statements of the OP somehow, someway this is no affirmation of God's Sabbath commandment, somehow some way when we see these texts it is just some sort of SDA teaching and not the actual Bible.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

But those of us inclined to exegesis "study the scriptures to SEE IF those things are so" -- we notice that each of these "Sabbath after Sabbath" services recorded in the NT are the very worship services in memorial of the creation event - that your post seems to "Wish" they were not.

were we simply not supposed to notice??
 
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reddogs

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By comparison - almost everyone you meet will argue for Sunday as the weekly day of worship based on one of those 5 statements above where they do not realize that in the actual NT - "not one" text says such a thing.
When you have truth, the deception seems what excites the world..
 
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