Factory Mixup ruins 15 million Covid-19 vaccine doses

alertandawake said:

Exactly. This is the very guts of the matter. Why are they (the people concerned) pushing to great lengths get everyone vaccinated? We see mass advertising, promotions and so on.

My opinion, we are not told "the complete truth".

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Nithavela said:

Have you ever tried not breathing? Notice how your body starts getting real pushy about you starting to breathe again?

What is it's real agenda?

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Nithavela said:

How did they test the animals for five years when they only started developing this vaccine a year ago?[/QUOTE

• The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines use pieces of genetic material (mRNA) instead of virus particles to create an immune response.

Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS Virus, published in 2012, began by stating, “The research for vaccine development of coronavirus was initiated in 2002 in response to the 2002 spread of SARS which emerged in China and the “concern for reemergence of a deliberate release of the SARS coronavirus”. *


This study is sited by some researchers who imply, ‘All animals died from autoimmune lung disease after receiving the vaccine upon being challenged with the virus’ Is this true?

The paper states,” evaluations of an inactivated whole virus vaccine (similar to customary vaccines) in ferrets, nonhuman primates; and a virus-like-particle in mice induced protection against infection but challenged animals (those administered vaccines) exhibited an immunopathologic-type lung

An interesting fact to note is no animal study went beyond 56 days presumably because the immediate goal was to prove mRNA vaccines could mount a good immune response with little acute adverse effects. Hence, we have no data even in animal studies as to long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines. mRNA vaccines are still considered experimental and people receiving these vaccines are part of the experiment.

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ThatRobGuy said:

I don't think they're inflating anything at all or lying about anything... I just know that happens to be a popular theory among conspiracy theorists. (along with other conspiracy theories about mind-control chemicals, micro-chips, etc... it's the internet, so nonsensical conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen)

So, I'll ask again, what's your potential theories? ...by all means, share with the class.

Clearly you're suggesting that there's some sort of nefarious plot at play if you're saying things like "they don't really care about health, so it must be some other reason"

With regards to the nursing home deaths... having a higher concentration of deaths in the places with the highest concentration of the people most likely to experience dire outcomes is to be expected, so not sure what point you're trying to make with that part.

And the fact that nursing home cases have dropped 96% after the vaccine rollout shows that the vaccines are quite effective.

Covid Cases Drop 96% In Nursing Homes After Vaccine Rollout, Study Reports


Seems like you've already made up your mind that "vaccines = bad", and base every other downstream assertion and line of questioning on that unproven premise.


Saying things like "well, we know it's not about health, so that's not it, so it's got be something else" is flawed. If you want to have a conversation about the part in blue, the onus is on you to substantiate the part in red.

Otherwise, it seems like you're grasping at the idea of having some sort of "alternative theory brainstorming session" all centered around a single, unproven sentiment you hold toward vaccination.

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ThatRobGuy said:

- The fact that they detected the issue and prevented the 15 million doses from going out is a testament to how robust their Quality Assurance process is. Had those 15 million doses shipped at got administered, then there'd be a huge problem

- "These people don't know what they are doing and I don't trust what they are concocting to put into my body!". You act as if it's some random mad scientists in a lab, laughing diabolically while pouring glowing green chemicals into a beaker in some cartoonish manner.

Quick question...are you one who likes to take things like "naturopathic/homeopathic" supplements? Or things like essential oils? Or embraces things like Chiropractic/Homeopathy? ...Just curious. (because all of those things have been less tested & less regulated than vaccinations, and for a few of them, unequivocally proven to be nonsensical pseudoscience) From my own personal observations, the people who shout the loudest about "Who knows what's in these vaccines?!?!"...are the same people who are perfectly content to take a product from the Mercola or "Dr" Axe website, that hides the ingredients behind the line item "immune boosting formula" and even states clearly on the bottle that it's not reviewed by the FDA.


- "What is in the vaccine that they want us to have so bad?? Because it isn't to fight the virus." Well poisoning fallacy.

- "More people who have been vaccinated are getting Covid than those who aren't vaccinated!" ...sorry, that's just a blatant falsehood. There have been 9,200 breakthrough cases identified by the CDC among the 90 million fully vaccinated, over a period of several months. (of them, only 825 hospitalizations, and only 132 deaths) Pre-vaccines, and among the non-vaccinated, the numbers are much higher on all 3 metrics over the same time period.

- "So what is really in the vaccine? What does it really do to us?" ...lemme guess, you have some sort of theory about it pertaining to mind control, micro-chipping, population control, or Bill Gates (and/or George Soros) that you read on a website somewhere?

Let's skip all the semantics and you can just give us what your theory is, and that'll probably save all of us quite a bit of time.

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ThatRobGuy said:

A couple of points of order...

- The amount of time, resources, and research put into this vaccine had just as many resources behind it (both in terms of research and effort) as other vaccines. It's just that there was a consolidation of resources behind it due to the urgency. You had literally all of the top immunology minds all centrally focused on the same goal.

To use analogy, if there was a 5 ton pile of gravel that needed to be moved... Who can get it done faster?, a two-man team who's just chipping away at it during their free time among several other projects, or a dedicated 20-man team working on it day & night until it's done?

The latter, correct? And the fact that the latter team could get it done exponentially faster wouldn't be evidence of shenanigans, it would simply mean that 20 exclusively focused people can accomplish a task quicker than a much smaller team that's only partially focused on it.

Also, with regards to timeframes...technology, and the ability to develop (as well as test the results) is constantly advancing. IE: the fact that a factory that can stamp out widgets in 2021 faster than they could make a widget in 1996 isn't evidence of foul play. There's a myriad of things that can be produced faster in 2021 than what they could do 25 years ago.


- They weren't starting from square one on this vaccine, a substantial portion of the research and development on this type of vaccine actually started back in 2012 during the emergence of MERS (which was also a coronavirus), so they already had a lot of existing data on the structure, genome, and life cycle of this type of virus.

For instance, Moderna (one of the companies making the vaccine) has been exclusively focused on this research for quite some time now. It's in their name... Moderna is actually named based on a partial acronym “Mode RNA”.

Research focused on mRNA vaccines isn't "brand new" by any stretch. It just got moved up to the top of the priority list due to the circumstances.

The mumps vaccine was another one that was prioritized by the federal government.. it was developed in 4 years using 1967 technology (and it didn't have the 10 year research head-start like the covid vaccines did)

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ThatRobGuy said:

No, I'm referring to MERS (that was first reported in 2012) which is what Moderna was using as their test case years ago when they started pursuing mRNA vaccine technology.

With regards to thing you're referring to...
Fact check: A 2012 study did not use mRNA vaccines or result in animals dying from disease

The paper's lead author (the paper where people are deriving this theory from) has already debunked that.


The video, which has been viewed over 140,000 times on Facebook, carries the headline: “Why people may start dying a few months after the Gates vaccination”.

It opens with a screenshot of the abstract of a 2012 paper entitled ‘Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus’. That paper is visible online here and here. The study researched vaccinated mice that were later exposed to a live SARS virus.

The speaker in the video says: “What happened in this study is that the animal models, after being challenged, got very sick and that some of them died. So that the last line of the abstract says: ‘Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated.’” (Timestamp 1.06)

The recommendation for caution is indeed the final line of the study’s conclusion, as published on the above link, but the lead author of the study, Prof Chien-Te (Kent) Tseng (here), told Reuters by email that the animals in the study did not die.


He said that immunised mice “generated strong and highly protective antibody responses which fully protect immunized mice against lethal infection”.

He said that when the animals were exposed to the live virus, they developed eosinophilia (a high count of a type of white blood cells) but, despite this, they “found that mice survived the lethal challenge without showing any readily noticeable weight loss and other signs of illness.”

The speaker in the video goes on to suggest throughout the video that the findings of the study are applicable to RNA vaccines (here Timestamps 0.18, 1.49, 2.43).

However, Tseng, said the vaccines they had studied in the 2012 paper and the mRNA technology used in the COVID-19 vaccines are “very different vaccine platforms.”

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ThatRobGuy said:

Yes, that's the same study from the debunking link I posted.
‘Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus’.

...not sure if you read the link you provided all the way through, but even the author in the link you provided is acknowledging that the vaccines from the 2012 study weren't the same

From the last paragraph of the article you linked:
However, the vaccines given in this paper were not the same as the current mRNA vaccines.

...so I don't think this link you provided is saying what you think it says.

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ThatRobGuy said:

You'll need to provide a citation supporting the claim that 2000 people have died from the covid vaccine.

...and it'll have to be something other than something attempting to leverage the VAERS open-source database. (a favorite among anti-vaxxers of all stripes...the anti-MMR people love trying to use that one as "evidence of vaccine harm")... it's not a reliable source.

It's an open access data system that allows random user submissions, and they even openly acknowledge that they don't verify causation before user submissions are aggregated into the counts.

Or, another way of putting it, the VAERS database, in terms of reliability, is barely one step above me starting a CF poll asking people "Do you know someone who's died from the vaccine?".

VAERS - Report an Adverse Event Step 1

This is the link where people can submit it, it requires no proof of causation, and literally anyone can fill it out based on what they "think" happened... you could fill out a false report right now if you really wanted to, and it'd be available in the downloadable spreadsheets within a few days.


And if you want a sample of just how reliable that data is... they have an option to download the entire database for 2021 in an easy to read CSV file.

I downloaded a few of their CSV files just to peruse what kinds of things getting aggregated in these lists...

Here are some "reliable reports" (clearly some people have decided to have some fun with the system)

I'm sure this first one is legit
"About 5 hrs after receiving vaccine muscle ache in shoulder. Penis reduced in size, length, and circumference is significant since following day and pain in penal area from day 3 and day 5 most noticeable. Shape of penis has changed (noticed on day 4 due to an erection) and the skin has become loose with the size reduction (like baggy pants.)" -- a very scientific description, and totally not a 16 year old kid trying to make cheesy anatomy jokes.

Another one that's so eloquently put:
"Explosive Diarhea and a touch of the AIDS" -- I'm glad this person only got 'a touch' of the AIDS and not full blown AIDS...that could've been serious...and they almost spelled diarrhea correctly.

There are people putting full blown profanity in there when they fill it out:
"I feel like <***> dude!" -- a very thorough assessment, I'm sure that's the official terminology they teach in med school.



So, if you have a source to back up the 2,000 dead from the vaccine claim, I hope it's not something relying on VAERS...because if it is, then you made the same mistake as Tucker Carlson when he made the same claim. (apparently he didn't realize that VAERS, despite technically being part of the HHS reporting system, is an entirely unverified system that serves as more of a "hypothesis generator"...where, if they see 150k user submissions, and 50k of them have the words "blood clot", then they'll look into blood clots as a potential side effect)...for instances, when the J&J vaccine had a lot of "blood clot" reports in VAERS, they paused the usage while they reviewed the claims for accuracy.

However, when was discovered that very few were legit, and most were things like this (this is an actual submission),

"666 Blood clots, heart attack, died 5 times survived, Blood is very thick blood thinners unable to thin"

...they resumed usage.

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