Can you be a Christian without keeping the Sabbath

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

note to mods: I don't know If am posting in the right forum so please move or delete if not appropriate

Hi I have been keeping a very low grade type of Sabbath where I just rest on a saturday and don't pay bills, shop, do any arduous work, the only activities I do are ones that aren't hard work and sometimes I listen to worship music or watch a movie, paint, read or take a nature walk somewhere.

My church keeps Sabbath on Sundays so I use Sunday as a day God worship and rest on Saturday

I have disabikities, physical and mental so try to keep it simple, I don't have a list of shoulda or oughts, I just make it a day of rest and relaxation.

I asked one of my old Hebrew roots contacts whether I was keeping the Sabbath ok, and she said that's fine. When I prayed I had a sense of peace I was doing the right thing

I know salvation isn't dependent on keeping the law so I thought I was doing ok and God was ok with me. Yeah sometimes when I am praying about other things I get a sense God is telling me am not really His because I haven't kept his commandments and that I will be judged for it but I chalked that one up to my OCD (scrupulousity type and other kinds) and try to ignore that voice.

I was on a thread earlier in the Sabbath and law forum and someone on there was saying that in Deutoronomy we are to not make anyone else work on the Sabbath and mentions that if we have our electricity on the national grid people are working!

So I was like wow, I didn't realise I was violating the sabbath. so I could switch off my phone my stereo etc but I can't switch off my fridge or my oxygen tank, CPAP etc as I need my medication kept under certain temps and need the oxygen to live. so that isn't an option for me. But am feeling guilty now and resentful.

Then I described how I do keep the Sabbath but was told Sabbath shouldn't be just rest but worship too. My nearest Sabbath keeping church is 3 hours away so not option for me. also I left Hebrew roots and don't feel I can go back as mental health affected by lists of rules and am going through deprogramming from those beliefs that I have to b good enough to be saved.

I was told Sabbath is not for doing our pleasures, so am thinking does that mean I can only read Bible or do Christian things? Is art ok, if my paintings are to do with God, and are Christian novels ok??

Can I put the light on? I have vit d issues and live in a country with short daylight hours in winter and get very depressed this time of year.

All this I could may be do if in were strong.but am not too good health wise at moment and wonder if I can just leave off worrying about the Sabbath until the spring comes or when am feeling a bit better? Whichever comes first?

.Mikha'el. · Jan 20, 2021

To me, the restrictions on an ordinary Sabbath are as follows:

no gainful employment
no household chores
no commerce because the book of Nehemiah says it profanes the day
no engaging in any activity that is described as "work", like working out, homework, housework, etc.

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

.Mikha'el. said:
To me, the restrictions on an ordinary Sabbath are as follows:

no gainful employment

no household chores

no commerce because the book of Nehemiah says it profanes the day

no engaging in any activity that is described as "work", like working out, homework, housework, etc.

I

Yeah that was basically what I was doing

I struggle because I believe God is with us in even secular pleasurable activities like painting or walking....so I see myself as doing those on the Sabbath and doing them with God??

My church doesn't teach we can't do any fun things on shabbat. Even as a child I was allowed to do so ordinary hobbies as long as I did the God stuff too and my family were very strict about religion

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

I won't be needing to think about this for next three months at least as am having treatment for an illness but I will maybe check in on here when am back...I don't know

Sabertooth · Jan 20, 2021

I believe that "the spirit of" the Sabbath must be maintained.
I believe that it is satisfied in the New Testament by Hebrews 4:9-11,
"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,

just as God did from his.

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest,
so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience."

That is, we yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit.

(The Pharisaical sabbath does not satisfy this.)

.Mikha'el. · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
I

Yeah that was basically what I was doing

I struggle because I believe God is with us in even secular pleasurable activities like painting or walking....so I see myself as doing those on the Sabbath and doing them with God??

My church doesn't teach we can't do any fun things on shabbat. Even as a child I was allowed to do so ordinary hobbies as long as I did the God stuff too and my family were very strict about religion

I used to be in a Facebook group for Messianic single people, and there was one person in there who insisted on refraining from recreation on the Sabbath, but most people including me thought that took Sabbath restriction much too far. I think you're good to go. :oldthumbsup:

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

Sabertooth said:
I believe that "the spirit of" the Sabbath must be maintained.
I believe that it is satisfied in the New Testament by Hebrews 4:9-11,
"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,

just as God did from his.
Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest,
so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience."

(The Pharisaical sabbath does not satisfy this.)

I

Yeah my church teaches that and I thoughtfulness doing that

I hadn't considered about the national grid thing

I wish there was as a modern day list which lays out what we can do or not??

I mean things like cooking or getting water aren't work anymore, not in the west. And we don't light fires so switching on heating isn't work.

housewo to like vacuuming only thing I can think o f or cleaning

Junia · Jan 20, 2021

.Mikha'el. said:
I used to be in a Facebook group for Messianic single people, and there was one person in there who insisted on refraining from recreation on the Sabbath, but most people including me thought that took Sabbath restriction much too far. I think you're good to go.

Thanks I historicity guilt and the voices from my OCD wouldn't keep popping up and making me feel bad but it is my fault because I went on the shabbat page

It's stupid because it isn't life or death

JEsus paid it all

Heavenhome · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
note to mods: I don't know If am posting in the right forum so please move or delete if not appropriate

Hi I have been keeping a very low grade type of Sabbath where I just rest on a saturday and don't pay bills, shop, do any arduous work, the only activities I do are ones that aren't hard work and sometimes I listen to worship music or watch a movie, paint, read or take a nature walk somewhere.

My church keeps Sabbath on Sundays so I use Sunday as a day God worship and rest on Saturday

I have disabikities, physical and mental so try to keep it simple, I don't have a list of shoulda or oughts, I just make it a day of rest and relaxation.

I asked one of my old Hebrew roots contacts whether I was keeping the Sabbath ok, and she said that's fine. When I prayed I had a sense of peace I was doing the right thing

I know salvation isn't dependent on keeping the law so I thought I was doing ok and God was ok with me. Yeah sometimes when I am praying about other things I get a sense God is telling me am not really His because I haven't kept his commandments and that I will be judged for it but I chalked that one up to my OCD (scrupulousity type and other kinds) and try to ignore that voice.

I was on a thread earlier in the Sabbath and law forum and someone on there was saying that in Deutoronomy we are to not make anyone else work on the Sabbath and mentions that if we have our electricity on the national grid people are working!

So I was like wow, I didn't realise I was violating the sabbath. so I could switch off my phone my stereo etc but I can't switch off my fridge or my oxygen tank, CPAP etc as I need my medication kept under certain temps and need the oxygen to live. so that isn't an option for me. But am feeling guilty now and resentful.

Then I described how I do keep the Sabbath but was told Sabbath shouldn't be just rest but worship too. My nearest Sabbath keeping church is 3 hours away so not option for me. also I left Hebrew roots and don't feel I can go back as mental health affected by lists of rules and am going through deprogramming from those beliefs that I have to b good enough to be saved.

I was told Sabbath is not for doing our pleasures, so am thinking does that mean I can only read Bible or do Christian things? Is art ok, if my paintings are to do with God, and are Christian novels ok??

Can I put the light on? I have vit d issues and live in a country with short daylight hours in winter and get very depressed this time of year.

All this I could may be do if in were strong.but am not too good health wise at moment and wonder if I can just leave off worrying about the Sabbath until the spring comes or when am feeling a bit better? Whichever comes first?

I think you are fine.

pescador · Jan 20, 2021

Don't worry about any rules concerning the keeping of the Sabbath. As Jesus showed and taught us several times, the Sabbath is meant to be a day of rest, but it's not violating the law to do needed acts on the Sabbath. Christians are not under law but under grace.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
note to mods: I don't know If am posting in the right forum so please move or delete if not appropriate

Hi I have been keeping a very low grade type of Sabbath where I just rest on a saturday and don't pay bills, shop, do any arduous work, the only activities I do are ones that aren't hard work and sometimes I listen to worship music or watch a movie, paint, read or take a nature walk somewhere.

My church keeps Sabbath on Sundays so I use Sunday as a day God worship and rest on Saturday

I have disabikities, physical and mental so try to keep it simple, I don't have a list of shoulda or oughts, I just make it a day of rest and relaxation.

I asked one of my old Hebrew roots contacts whether I was keeping the Sabbath ok, and she said that's fine. When I prayed I had a sense of peace I was doing the right thing

I know salvation isn't dependent on keeping the law so I thought I was doing ok and God was ok with me. Yeah sometimes when I am praying about other things I get a sense God is telling me am not really His because I haven't kept his commandments and that I will be judged for it but I chalked that one up to my OCD (scrupulousity type and other kinds) and try to ignore that voice.

I was on a thread earlier in the Sabbath and law forum and someone on there was saying that in Deutoronomy we are to not make anyone else work on the Sabbath and mentions that if we have our electricity on the national grid people are working!

So I was like wow, I didn't realise I was violating the sabbath. so I could switch off my phone my stereo etc but I can't switch off my fridge or my oxygen tank, CPAP etc as I need my medication kept under certain temps and need the oxygen to live. so that isn't an option for me. But am feeling guilty now and resentful.

Then I described how I do keep the Sabbath but was told Sabbath shouldn't be just rest but worship too. My nearest Sabbath keeping church is 3 hours away so not option for me. also I left Hebrew roots and don't feel I can go back as mental health affected by lists of rules and am going through deprogramming from those beliefs that I have to b good enough to be saved.

I was told Sabbath is not for doing our pleasures, so am thinking does that mean I can only read Bible or do Christian things? Is art ok, if my paintings are to do with God, and are Christian novels ok??

Can I put the light on? I have vit d issues and live in a country with short daylight hours in winter and get very depressed this time of year.

All this I could may be do if in were strong.but am not too good health wise at moment and wonder if I can just leave off worrying about the Sabbath until the spring comes or when am feeling a bit better? Whichever comes first?

The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. It is lawful to do good things on the Sabbath to help others and to take rest and time that God has set apart to rest and know him. God's "seventh day" Sabbath is God's 4th commandment of the 10 that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures in Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20. It is very specific and linked directly to the "seventh day" of the week with God's time starting from sunset to sunset making its start at Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (biblical time).

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in following any of God's Laws including the Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment if it is not done through faith that works by love, because it is only as God writes his law to love in our hearts that we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Rom 13:8-10)

Robban · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
I

Yeah my church teaches that and I thoughtfulness doing that

I hadn't considered about the national grid thing

I wish there was as a modern day list which lays out what we can do or not??

I mean things like cooking or getting water aren't work anymore, not in the west. And we don't light fires so switching on heating isn't work.

If this is making you ill, drop it like a hot potatoe.

There is a list that all mankind are required to keep, Jew and non-Jew.

For a non-Jew Shabbat is not among them.

Can be found in Talmud.
(Babyllonian Sanhedrin 56a-b )

Lg2000 · Jan 20, 2021

I don't really treat the sabbath any differently. First thing I do every morning when I wake is worship God. I do it at night too. I worship God everyday . I make time to read the word everyday. I pray everyday.
I don't feel god speaking to me that I don't keep the sabbath holy , we all have different convictions tho.
I wonder if it's really a sin to do things on the sabbath. Like if my house is messy I'll clean it on the sabbath

LoveGodsWord · Jan 20, 2021

Lg2000 said:
I don't really treat the sabbath any differently. First thing I do every morning when I wake is worship God. I do it at night too. I worship God everyday . I make time to read the word everyday. I pray everyday.
I don't feel god speaking to me that I don't keep the sabbath holy , we all have different convictions tho.
I wonder if it's really a sin to do things on the sabbath. Like if my house is messy I'll clean it on the sabbath

We should worship God every day. That is not the problem. God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 however according to the scriptures is about keeping the "seventh day" of the week as a Holy day of rest where no work is to be done and keeping the day as a holy day of rest and celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3.

Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:20 and not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. So according to the scriptures in the new covenant if we knowingly break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin.

God knows that many do so however out of ignorance and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word *James 4:7; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. If at this time however we reject God's Word in order to practice known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *Hebrews 10:26-31.

Gods' people are in every church according to the scriptures *John 10:16. Today many Church's have departed the Word of God in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to break the commandments of God (4th commandment). Jesus is calling us all where ever we might be back to the pure Word of God. The hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling his Sheep through His Word. Those who have ears to hear will hear those who do not will not hear according to the scriptures *John 10:26-27

God bless

ViaCrucis · Jan 20, 2021

Junia said:
note to mods: I don't know If am posting in the right forum so please move or delete if not appropriate

Hi I have been keeping a very low grade type of Sabbath where I just rest on a saturday and don't pay bills, shop, do any arduous work, the only activities I do are ones that aren't hard work and sometimes I listen to worship music or watch a movie, paint, read or take a nature walk somewhere.

My church keeps Sabbath on Sundays so I use Sunday as a day God worship and rest on Saturday

I have disabikities, physical and mental so try to keep it simple, I don't have a list of shoulda or oughts, I just make it a day of rest and relaxation.

I asked one of my old Hebrew roots contacts whether I was keeping the Sabbath ok, and she said that's fine. When I prayed I had a sense of peace I was doing the right thing

I know salvation isn't dependent on keeping the law so I thought I was doing ok and God was ok with me. Yeah sometimes when I am praying about other things I get a sense God is telling me am not really His because I haven't kept his commandments and that I will be judged for it but I chalked that one up to my OCD (scrupulousity type and other kinds) and try to ignore that voice.

I was on a thread earlier in the Sabbath and law forum and someone on there was saying that in Deutoronomy we are to not make anyone else work on the Sabbath and mentions that if we have our electricity on the national grid people are working!

So I was like wow, I didn't realise I was violating the sabbath. so I could switch off my phone my stereo etc but I can't switch off my fridge or my oxygen tank, CPAP etc as I need my medication kept under certain temps and need the oxygen to live. so that isn't an option for me. But am feeling guilty now and resentful.

Then I described how I do keep the Sabbath but was told Sabbath shouldn't be just rest but worship too. My nearest Sabbath keeping church is 3 hours away so not option for me. also I left Hebrew roots and don't feel I can go back as mental health affected by lists of rules and am going through deprogramming from those beliefs that I have to b good enough to be saved.

I was told Sabbath is not for doing our pleasures, so am thinking does that mean I can only read Bible or do Christian things? Is art ok, if my paintings are to do with God, and are Christian novels ok??

Can I put the light on? I have vit d issues and live in a country with short daylight hours in winter and get very depressed this time of year.

All this I could may be do if in were strong.but am not too good health wise at moment and wonder if I can just leave off worrying about the Sabbath until the spring comes or when am feeling a bit better? Whichever comes first?

The historic and traditional teaching of the Christian faith, going all the way back to the Apostles, is that the Sabbath observance simply does not apply to Christians.

The Sabbath was, and still is, the seventh day of the week (Saturday), but its observance as a command from God has no bearing on Christians. Because the Torah was not given as universal instructions, but as particular instructions to a particular people as part of a particular covenant. The particular covenant and particular people in question being God's covenant which He established with the Jewish people at Mt. Horeb in Sinai. This is why Moses declares in Deuteronomy chapter 5,

"And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, 'Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today. The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire, while I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord. For you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain.'" - Deuteronomy 5:1-5

Likewise the Psalmist wrote,

"He has declared His word to Jacob,
His statutes and rules to Israel.
He has not dealt thus with any other nation;
they do not know His rules. Hallelujah!" - Psalm 147:19-20

The Christian Church has always taught and believed that with the coming of Christ the fulfillment of the covenants God made in prior generations has come to pass--the covenants made with Abraham, with Israel, with David, etc. Jesus is God's Messiah, and through the Messiah has come a new covenant. For this reason St. Paul teaches that the former things, such as the Sabbath, lunar observances, holy days, etc were all shadows which served to point to Jesus, and Jesus being the true substance.

Christians don't have a Sabbath day, because every day is the Sabbath in Christ--Christ is our Sabbath rest which we have entered into by grace, through Holy Baptism by which we have become new creations, born anew as children of God, with God's covenant with us sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The reason why the Church has always gathered for worship on the first day of the week (Sunday) isn't because Sunday is a new Sabbath day of rest. The reasons are far simpler and, actually, rather practical:

The most obvious reason being that with the resurrection of Jesus being on the first day of the week, the first day of the week took on a special significance in the early Christian community. From very early on Christians spoke of the first day of the week as the "8th day of creation" because through Christ's resurrection has come new creation. This language of the "Eighth Day" borrowed Old Testament language, for example God instructed the Israelites to circumcise their male children on the eighth day, the eighth day of certain feasts are specifically noted in the Old Testament such as in Numbers 29:35. And so early Christians therefore began to speak of the Eighth Day--the eternal day, God's day, the Lord's day, the day on which God has brought new life and granted us peace and rest with Himself, and the hope of the neverending day when God has made all things new.

The usual term Christians used was Kyriake Hemera, Greek for "Lord's Day", and very often it was simply shortened to Kyriake. In fact, even today in Greece, the Greek name for the first day of the week is Kyriaki.

But the Lord's Day wasn't a new Sabbath, and it was never believed to be something God commanded. In fact early Christians freely talk about how the Church began gathering together on the first day of the week, not out of any command from God, but as a purely voluntary act to remember and celebrate the victory of Jesus over death.

Now that's the symbolic significance, but there was also a very practical reason as well. In the first century prior to a clear break between Christianity and Judaism existed, and with the majority of Christians being Jews, there really was no reason for them to stop going to the synagogue on the Sabbath. But obviously certain aspects of Christian worship and devotion couldn't be done at a synagogue, and so after the Sabbath had passed (at sundown Saturday) Christians would come together for prayer, teaching, and the celebration of the Eucharist.

As more and more Gentiles converted, and as Christianity and Judaism increasingly went their separate ways, those distinctly Christian gatherings on the first day of the week simply incorporated the liturgical elements of the synagogue. Which became the basis for the traditional two divisions of the Christian liturgy: The Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Altar. With the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, and certainly by the end of the first century, the general template of Christian worship was already pretty well established, and so the Christian writers of the 2nd century speak of the look of Christian worship as simply matter-of-fact. It was ubiquitous enough that the Roman governor Pliny the Younger in his letter to the emperor Trajan offers his description of Christian worship as Christians gathered together before sunrise singing hymns "to Christ as to a god".

-CryptoLutheran

LoveGodsWord · Jan 20, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The historic and traditional teaching of the Christian faith, going all the way back to the Apostles, is that the Sabbath observance simply does not apply to Christians.

The Sabbath was, and still is, the seventh day of the week (Saturday), but its observance as a command from God has no bearing on Christians. Because the Torah was not given as universal instructions, but as particular instructions to a particular people as part of a particular covenant. The particular covenant and particular people in question being God's covenant which He established with the Jewish people at Mt. Horeb in Sinai. This is why Moses declares in Deuteronomy chapter 5,

"And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, 'Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today. The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire, while I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord. For you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain.'" - Deuteronomy 5:1-5

Likewise the Psalmist wrote,

"He has declared His word to Jacob,
His statutes and rules to Israel.
He has not dealt thus with any other nation;
they do not know His rules. Hallelujah!" - Psalm 147:19-20

The Christian Church has always taught and believed that with the coming of Christ the fulfillment of the covenants God made in prior generations has come to pass--the covenants made with Abraham, with Israel, with David, etc. Jesus is God's Messiah, and through the Messiah has come a new covenant. For this reason St. Paul teaches that the former things, such as the Sabbath, lunar observances, holy days, etc were all shadows which served to point to Jesus, and Jesus being the true substance.

Christians don't have a Sabbath day, because every day is the Sabbath in Christ--Christ is our Sabbath rest which we have entered into by grace, through Holy Baptism by which we have become new creations, born anew as children of God, with God's covenant with us sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The reason why the Church has always gathered for worship on the first day of the week (Sunday) isn't because Sunday is a new Sabbath day of rest. The reasons are far simpler and, actually, rather practical:

The most obvious reason being that with the resurrection of Jesus being on the first day of the week, the first day of the week took on a special significance in the early Christian community. From very early on Christians spoke of the first day of the week as the "8th day of creation" because through Christ's resurrection has come new creation. This language of the "Eighth Day" borrowed Old Testament language, for example God instructed the Israelites to circumcise their male children on the eighth day, the eighth day of certain feasts are specifically noted in the Old Testament such as in Numbers 29:35. And so early Christians therefore began to speak of the Eighth Day--the eternal day, God's day, the Lord's day, the day on which God has brought new life and granted us peace and rest with Himself, and the hope of the neverending day when God has made all things new.

The usual term Christians used was Kyriake Hemera, Greek for "Lord's Day", and very often it was simply shortened to Kyriake. In fact, even today in Greece, the Greek name for the first day of the week is Kyriaki.

But the Lord's Day wasn't a new Sabbath, and it was never believed to be something God commanded. In fact early Christians freely talk about how the Church began gathering together on the first day of the week, not out of any command from God, but as a purely voluntary act to remember and celebrate the victory of Jesus over death.

Now that's the symbolic significance, but there was also a very practical reason as well. In the first century prior to a clear break between Christianity and Judaism existed, and with the majority of Christians being Jews, there really was no reason for them to stop going to the synagogue on the Sabbath. But obviously certain aspects of Christian worship and devotion couldn't be done at a synagogue, and so after the Sabbath had passed (at sundown Saturday) Christians would come together for prayer, teaching, and the celebration of the Eucharist.

As more and more Gentiles converted, and as Christianity and Judaism increasingly went their separate ways, those distinctly Christian gatherings on the first day of the week simply incorporated the liturgical elements of the synagogue. Which became the basis for the traditional two divisions of the Christian liturgy: The Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Altar. With the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, and certainly by the end of the first century, the general template of Christian worship was already pretty well established, and so the Christian writers of the 2nd century speak of the look of Christian worship as simply matter-of-fact. It was ubiquitous enough that the Roman governor Pliny the Younger in his letter to the emperor Trajan offers his description of Christian worship as Christians gathered together before sunrise singing hymns "to Christ as to a god".

-CryptoLutheran

That is simply not true both biblically and historically. God's seventh day Sabbath commandment, has always been kept all through time in the biblical records to the life of Jesus and the Apostles where we are told it was the custom of Jesus to keep the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in Luke 4:16 to after the death and resurrection of Jesus while his Apostles were sharing the gospel to the world *Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10 and God's Church all through time unbroken to this very present day (Historical references provided on request).

The term "the Lords day" is not Sunday. According to the bible "the Lords day" is the Sabbath day (see Matthew 12:8). Sunday worship is not a biblical teaching and it is one not based on the scriptures as a command to keep anywhere in the bible. There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest. In fact there is not a single scripture using the term "the Lords day" in Revelation 1:10 to Sunday or the first day of the week.

According to God's Word, God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new testament *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11 and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom according to Hebrews 10:26-31.

Here are some interesting historical references you might find interesting that clear up a few misconception people may have about Sunday worship entering the Roman empire and the early Church....

Historically, Constantine did not change the day of worship as many claim. According to the historical records, Constantine made a civil Sunday law that the Roman Catholic Church adopted in order to practice and promote Sunday worship over the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment...

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine - March, 321 A.D.

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

Now a professed Christian, Constantine nevertheless remained a devout sun worshipper. “The sun was universally celebrated as the invincible guide and protector of Constantine,” notes Edward Gibbon in his classic Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, ch. xx, par. 3.

Constantine even printed coins which “bore on the one side the letters of the name of Christ, on the other the figure of the sun god.” Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, lect. vi, par. 14.

Again, Constantine’s promotion of Sunday observance was part of his definite strategy to combine paganism with Christianity: “The retention of the old pagan name of dies Solis, or 'Sunday,' for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’” – Stanley’s History of the Eastern Church, p. 184.

In spite of the rising popularity of Sunday sacredness, Church historian Socrates Scholasticus (5th century) wrote: “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [of the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.” – Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, ch. 22.

Another historian also confirmed this by stating, “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, ch. 19. Thus even in the 5th century, Sabbath keeping was universally prevalent (except in Rome and Alexandria) along with Sunday keeping. Many Christians kept both days, but as the centuries wore on, Sunday keeping grew in prominence and especially within Roman Catholic territories.

In 330 A.D., Constantine moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople (modern Istanbul), thus preparing the way for the Roman Catholic Popes to reign in Rome as the successors of Constantine. As the Papal Church grew in power, it opposed Sabbath observance in favour of Sunday sacredness and made the day change official in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363-364). Constantine's law had now been fully integrated into the Papal Church and the final step of the Sabbath to Sunday change was complete.

So around the year A.D. 364, the Catholic Church outlawed Sabbath keeping in the Council of Laodicea when they decreed 59 Canon laws. The following is the relevant Canon law:

Canon XXIX: “Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.” (Percival Translation).

Four hundred years after the death of Christ and one hundred years after Constantine's linking of Church and State by his Sunday law edict, Rome and Alexandria were the only places in the world where many of the Christians kept only Sunday and not the true Sabbath. Why was it that Rome and Alexandria were also the first locations that Sunday worship began? Because this is where the pagan practices of Babylon eventually landed after it was conquered. And what was the dominant pagan practice that the Babylonian priests brought with them? Sun worship which was done on Sun-day! See the history of Sunday worship for more detail.

So one can understand why Rome and Alexandria did not bother to keep the true Sabbath as they had not done so for 200 years. Throughout the entire history of the changeover from Sabbath to Sunday, Rome and Alexandria had worked together. Alexandria provided the philosophical reasons for the changes and Rome provided the decrees and anathemas. Constantine's help was given only to the worldly Church leaders at Rome and those Christians that resisted the errors that were being introduced into the Church met with his opposition. “Unite with the bishop of Rome or be destroyed,” was Constantine's position.

“Great as were the favors which Constantine showed to the church, they were only for that strong, close-knit, hierarchically organized portion that called itself Catholic. The various [so-called] heretical sects could look for no bounty from his hands.” – Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church, page 105.

The change of the Sabbath to Sunday was totally completed by the seventh century as the Popes consolidating their enormous power persecuted all who resisted their innovations. Did Satan use Constantine to play a key part in his plan to change the Sabbath to his day being Sunday? The answer is clear! From sun worship 2000 B.C., to Sunday worship in the Church. Satan infiltrated the Christian Church and most are oblivious to the fact that this has happened or understand the relevance. Sunday or “dies solis”, the day of the sun came from Satan worship and is his day. (more from here).

I think we need to be careful here as Jesus says in His own words that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9 according to the scriptures.

According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind (not just the Jew or Israel) and he is the creator and Lord of it *Mark 2:27-28 There was no Jew, no Israel no Moses, no law, no sin and no plan of salvation given when God made the Sabbath for mankind according to the scriptures (Genesis 2:1-3), only Adam and Eve.

God bless

LoveGodsWord · Jan 21, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The usual term Christians used was Kyriake Hemera, Greek for "Lord's Day", and very often it was simply shortened to Kyriake. In fact, even today in Greece, the Greek name for the first day of the week is Kyriaki.

Just wanted to touch on this section a little as well as I did not get a chance to in my last post and thought it was interesting. You did not mention how and why in Greece today the first day of the week is called Kyriaki in modern Greek. This did not happen until well after John wrote the book of Revelation.

In the original biblical texts in the Kione Greek Sunday was never called "Kyriaki" or the first day of the week. This was a change in the Greek language that simply did not happen until the 4th Century, well after John wrote the book of Revelation and is not Koine Greek but modern Greek. There is no scripture reference to "the Lord's day" ever being Sunday (Wictionary) and modern Greek is not the same as the Koine Greek language that the new testament was written in.

These name changes we see therefore did not happen until after the Christian religion became the official religion of the Roman Empire through Constantine in Milan in around 323 AD well after John wrote the book of Revelation all the books of the bible were written.

"As Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, the clergy became reluctant to use the names of the pagan gods, particularly in the Greek-speaking East.

They named Sunday “the Lord’s day” or Κυριακή (Domenica in Latin) and the rest of the days simply by numbering, counting from Sunday as the first day: Δευτέρα (The Second) – Monday, Τρίτη (The Third) – Tuesday, Τετάρτη (The Fourth) – Wednesday, Πέμπτη (The Fifth) – Thursday, while Friday – Παρασκευή (The Day of Preparation) and Saturday – Σάββατο (Sabbath) also reflected religious significance.

As part of the cultural and linguistic influences of the Byzantine Empire on the Slavic-speaking peoples, this pattern was adopted in many Slavic languages. In the South-Slavic languages the word for Sunday is nedelja / nedjelja (literally, the day without work), Monday is ponedeljak / ponedjeljak (the day after Sunday), Tuesday is utorak (the second), Wednesday is sreda /srijeda (day in the middle), Thursday is četvrtak (the fourth), Friday is petak (the fifth), and Saturday is subota (Sabbath)." (source)

The key point here is that these name changes did not happen until well after the book of Revelation was written. So what does this all mean? The Greek name change from Sunday to "Kyriaki" (the Lord's) does not support a claim to Revelation 1:10 being "Sunday" as it happened well past the time the book of Revelation was ever written and John had already passed away and is a part of a different language era.

Hope this was of interest.

ViaCrucis · Jan 21, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Just wanted to touch on this section a little as well as I did not get a chance to in my last post and thought it was interesting. You did not mention how and why in Greece today the first day of the week is called Kyriaki in modern Greek. This did not happen until well after John wrote the book of Revelation.

In the original biblical Kione Greek Sunday was never called "Kyriaki" or the first day of the week. This was a change in the Greek language that simply did not happen until the 4th Century, well after John wrote the book of Revelation and is not Koine Greek but modern Greek. There is no scripture reference to "the Lord's day" ever being Sunday (Wictionary) and modern Greek is not the same as the Koine Greek language that the new testament was written in.

These name changes we see therefore did not happen until after the Christian religion became the official religion of the Roman Empire through Constantine in Milan in around 323 AD well after John wrote the book of Revelation all the books of the bible were written.

"As Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, the clergy became reluctant to use the names of the pagan gods, particularly in the Greek-speaking East.

They named Sunday “the Lord’s day” or Κυριακή (Domenica in Latin) and the rest of the days simply by numbering, counting from Sunday as the first day: Δευτέρα (The Second) – Monday, Τρίτη (The Third) – Tuesday, Τετάρτη (The Fourth) – Wednesday, Πέμπτη (The Fifth) – Thursday, while Friday – Παρασκευή (The Day of Preparation) and Saturday – Σάββατο (Sabbath) also reflected religious significance.

As part of the cultural and linguistic influences of the Byzantine Empire on the Slavic-speaking peoples, this pattern was adopted in many Slavic languages. In the South-Slavic languages the word for Sunday is nedelja / nedjelja (literally, the day without work), Monday is ponedeljak / ponedjeljak (the day after Sunday), Tuesday is utorak (the second), Wednesday is sreda /srijeda (day in the middle), Thursday is četvrtak (the fourth), Friday is petak (the fifth), and Saturday is subota (Sabbath)." (source)

The key point here is that these name changes did not happen until well after 313 AD. So what does this all mean? The Greek name change from Sunday to "Kyriaki" (the Lord's) does not support a claim to Revelation 1:10 being "the Lords day" as it happened well past the time the book of Revelation was ever written and John had already passed away and is a part of a different language era.

Hope this was of interest.

I wasn't planning on responding, because this isn't the right forum to be debating the topic of the Sabbath. But while reading your post here, I noticed you said,

This was a change in the Greek language that simply did not happen until the 4th Century, well after John

And that's where I stopped reading if I'm honest. I have no intent on going down some lengthy rabbit hole of an argument over things that have been said a thousand times already, but I did want to correct your error here, just purely on factual historical grounds.

The term Kyriake was very much being used to refer to the first day of the week well before the 4th century. Obviously I believe its use in the Apocalypse is an example of this, but even ignoring the biblical data, we have clear statements from our ancient primary sources that easily refute the claim you're making.

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Magnesians, ch. 9, c. 107 AD

In the original Koine,

Ει ουν οι εν παλαιοις πραγμασιν αναστραφεντες εις καινοτητα ελπιδος ηλθον, μηκετι σαββατιζοντες αλλα κατα κυριακην ζωντες, εν η και η ζωη ημων ανετειλεν δι αυτου και του θανατου αυτου, {ον} τινες αρνουνται, δι ου μυστηριου ελαβομεν το πιστευειν, και δια τουτο υπομενομεν, ινα ευρεθωμεν μαθηται Ιησου Χριστου του μονου διδασκαλου ημων·πως ημεις δυνησομεθα ζησαι χωρις αυτου, ου και οι προφηται μαθηται οντες τω πνευματι ως διδασκαλον αυτον προσεδοκων; και δια τουτο, ον δικαιως ανεμενον, παρων εγειρεν αυτους εκ νεκρων.

I've emphasized the key word, that's Kyriake(n), and it's being used to refer to the day Jesus rose from the dead in contrast to the Sabbath.

These are rather easy things to look up.

Ignatius' Epistle to the Magnesians:
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Magnesians (St. Ignatius)

The original Greek of the same:
Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians.

Who was St. Ignatius of Antioch?
Ignatius of Antioch - Wikipedia

-CryptoLutheran

MaxQ · Jan 21, 2021

Junia said:
note to mods: I don't know If am posting in the right forum so please move or delete if not appropriate

Hi I have been keeping a very low grade type of Sabbath where I just rest on a saturday and don't pay bills, shop, do any arduous work, the only activities I do are ones that aren't hard work and sometimes I listen to worship music or watch a movie, paint, read or take a nature walk somewhere.

My church keeps Sabbath on Sundays so I use Sunday as a day God worship and rest on Saturday

I have disabikities, physical and mental so try to keep it simple, I don't have a list of shoulda or oughts, I just make it a day of rest and relaxation.

I asked one of my old Hebrew roots contacts whether I was keeping the Sabbath ok, and she said that's fine. When I prayed I had a sense of peace I was doing the right thing

I know salvation isn't dependent on keeping the law so I thought I was doing ok and God was ok with me. Yeah sometimes when I am praying about other things I get a sense God is telling me am not really His because I haven't kept his commandments and that I will be judged for it but I chalked that one up to my OCD (scrupulousity type and other kinds) and try to ignore that voice.

I was on a thread earlier in the Sabbath and law forum and someone on there was saying that in Deutoronomy we are to not make anyone else work on the Sabbath and mentions that if we have our electricity on the national grid people are working!

So I was like wow, I didn't realise I was violating the sabbath. so I could switch off my phone my stereo etc but I can't switch off my fridge or my oxygen tank, CPAP etc as I need my medication kept under certain temps and need the oxygen to live. so that isn't an option for me. But am feeling guilty now and resentful.

Then I described how I do keep the Sabbath but was told Sabbath shouldn't be just rest but worship too. My nearest Sabbath keeping church is 3 hours away so not option for me. also I left Hebrew roots and don't feel I can go back as mental health affected by lists of rules and am going through deprogramming from those beliefs that I have to b good enough to be saved.

I was told Sabbath is not for doing our pleasures, so am thinking does that mean I can only read Bible or do Christian things? Is art ok, if my paintings are to do with God, and are Christian novels ok??

Can I put the light on? I have vit d issues and live in a country with short daylight hours in winter and get very depressed this time of year.

All this I could may be do if in were strong.but am not too good health wise at moment and wonder if I can just leave off worrying about the Sabbath until the spring comes or when am feeling a bit better? Whichever comes first?

Why are you trying to keep the Sabbath in the first place? (I mean, what does keeping the Sabbath do?)

Ceallaigh · Jan 21, 2021

I'm not a sabbatarian, but I prefer to put things aside and rest on Saturday. Fortunately my current work schedule makes Saturday the optimal day for that.

Can you be a Christian without keeping the Sabbath

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