Example: Affirming the Sabbath Commandment while denying its detail --

[BobRyan]

Is there a trend toward "fixing the Bible" (specifically when it comes to God's Ten Commandments, for the topic of this thread) -- where a sort of pick-and-choose even in one of the Ten Commandments that is admitted to be part of God's moral law - is "up for edit" or "up for grabs"? Is that even a thing?

Sunday Keeping Pastor - about Sabbath

Compare how that video starts out - as opposed to how it ends (Note how often it appears that someone will post on this thread without watching what that pastor in the short video said in his sermon)

If you don't like something the commandment says - such as "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" is it ok to edit it?

What do you think?

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Points to Gen 2:2-3 as the "made it holy" event in history

Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord:

And for 40 years on EXACTLY the 7th day -- no manna fell. The entire nation had the "exact day" of the Gen 2:2-3 event - correct as per the LORD (YHWH).

The very day to be remembered -- is the very detail in that command of God to edit/forget/cast-aside?

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Is 66:23 -- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

================================

This is a short OP - I am hoping that those who respond to this thread can have the time to read the entire OP.

 

[BobRyan]

There are a number of points that are irrefutable in the OP

1. The Gen 2 event is before Sinai - it claims to be at Creation week where only two humans exist for "mankind".
2. The Ex 16 text shows "exact day" compliance with the "sanctified and made it holy" statement in Gen 2:3
3. The EX 20:10 text shows that it is not the "Sabbath of man" but rather the "Sabbath of YHWH"
4. The IS 56 text shows gentiles specifically singled out for following that Gen 2 Sabbath
5. The IS 66:23 statement shows that it extends out for all eternity into the New Earth for "all mankind"
6. In Acts 13 it is GENTILES - not "Jews" asking for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for "the NEXT Sabbath"

 

[Leaf473]

Is there a trend toward "fixing the Bible" where a sort of pick-and-choose even in one of the Ten Commandments that is admitted to be part of God's moral law - is "up for edit" or "up for grabs"? Is that even a thing?

Compare how that video starts out - as opposed to how it ends

If you don't like something the commandment says - such as "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" is it ok to edit it?

What do you think?

Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Points to Gen 2:2-3 as the "made it holy" event in history

Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord:

And for 40 years on EXACTLY the 7th day -- no manna fell. The entire nation had the "exact day" of the Gen 2:2-3 event - correct as per the LORD (YHWH).

The very day to be remembered -- is the very detail in that command of God to edit/forget/cast-aside?

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Is 66:23 -- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

================================

This is a short OP - I am hoping that those who respond to this thread can have the time to read the entire OP.

I don't know about a trend, but for myself, I don't think the Sabbath commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

I don't know about a trend, but for myself, I don't think the Sabbath commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

Then why do you do it? You take the rest literally, so why not the Sabbath? They are all laws given to the Jews that the Gentiles have basically ignored for thousands of years.

 

[Leaf473]

Then why do you do it? You take the rest literally, so why not the Sabbath? They are all laws given to the Jews that the Gentiles have basically ignored for thousands of years.

No, I don't take them all literally. Here is a commandment I don't take literally, for example

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 15:4 - New American Standard Bible

Every bed on which the man with the discharge lies becomes unclean, and everything on which he sits becomes unclean.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

No, I don't take them all literally. Here is a commandment I don't take literally, for example

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 15:4 - New American Standard Bible

Every bed on which the man with the discharge lies becomes unclean, and everything on which he sits becomes unclean.

www.biblegateway.com

I was speaking of the 10 commandments,

 

[Leaf473]

I was speaking of the 10 commandments,

I see. Well, I was speaking of all of God's Commandments, which includes the 10.

When it comes to whether one commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment, I think it's important to consider them all.

Considering the 10 in isolation can lead to incorrect results imo.

 

[Gary K]

I see. Well, I was speaking of all of God's Commandments, which includes the 10.

When it comes to whether one commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment, I think it's important to consider them all.

Considering the 10 in isolation can lead to incorrect results imo.

In that context you ignore a lot of laws.

 

[Leaf473]

In that context you ignore a lot of laws.

Please give an example, if you wish, of a law that is left out when a person considers all of the commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't know about a trend, but for myself, I don't think the Sabbath commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment.

Mark 7:7-13 What does Jesus say about editing one of the "Commandments of God" as the NT calls them? Have you read that teaching of Jesus in Mark 7???

7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

I always appreciate your efforts to open a door for Mark 7 to be posted as the ideal response. It is more than a little helpful.

 

[BobRyan]

Gary
K said:
Then why do you do it? You take the rest literally, so why not the Sabbath?

No, I don't take them all literally.

Are you inclined to "Edit the Commandments of God"?

Notice what the speaker in that OP said about the idea of toying with God's Word, God's commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Considering the 10 in isolation can lead to incorrect results imo.

In your POV - should Paul be condemned for isolating the TEN to the point that "Honor your father and mother IS THE FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in the Bible. (See Eph 6:2)

Again - I do appreciate your work in getting Eph 6:2 set up as the perfect response to a post. That indeed is helpfu.

 

[BobRyan]

I see. Well, I was speaking of all of God's Commandments, which includes the 10.

Is it true that in "all the Bible" the command "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 -- in your POV?

 

[BobRyan]

1. The Gen 2 event is before Sinai - it claims to be at Creation week where only two humans exist for "mankind".
2. The Ex 16 text shows "exact day" compliance with the "sanctified and made it holy" statement in Gen 2:3
3. The EX 20:10 text shows that it is not the "Sabbath of man" but rather the "Sabbath of YHWH"
4. The IS 56 text shows gentiles specifically singled out for following that Gen 2 Sabbath
5. The IS 66:23 statement shows that it extends out for all eternity into the New Earth for "all mankind"
6. In Acts 13 it is GENTILES - not "Jews" asking for more Gospel preaching to be scheduled for "the NEXT Sabbath"

If we were Jews living before Christ, you would have a point.

That only works if one supposes that "only Jews know that Adam and Eve were humans , or the only humans on Earth in Gen 2"
That only works if one supposes that "God" (YHWH) in EX 20:10 cannot be allowed to be the God of someone who is not a Jew.
That only works if one supposes that the gentiles in Is 56:6-8 are Jews not gentiles
That only works if one supposes that in Is 66:23 gentiles are not to be included in the term "mankind" -- for all eternity in the New Earth
That only works if one supposes that the gentiles in Acts 13 -- are Jews not gentiles.

Notice that the speaker in the OP does not make any such assumptions

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Rom 14:5

nope. "one person observes one day above another while another observes them all... he who observes the day observes it to the Lord" Rom 14.

IT is a reference to the Bible approved list of holy days in Lev 23 and is compatible with the Gal 4:10-11 condemnation of a Christian that observes even one pagan holy day.

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another"
R 7:4

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:4 "this is the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother is the first Commandment WITH A promise"

 

[Leaf473]

Mark 7:7-13 What does Jesus say about editing one of the "Commandments of God" as the NT calls them?

He says not to set them aside for the traditions of men.

Have you read that teaching of Jesus in Mark 7???

Yes.

7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

I always appreciate your efforts to open a door for Mark 7 to be posted as the ideal response. It is more than a little helpful.

An ideal response would deal with this passage as well

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Gary
K said:
Then why do you do it? You take the rest literally, so why not the Sabbath?

Are you inclined to "Edit the Commandments of God"?

Only as the scriptures teach. As an example,

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 11:41 - New American Standard Bible

But give that which is within as a charitable gift, and then all things are clean for you.

www.biblegateway.com

Notice what the speaker in that OP said about the idea of toying with God's Word, God's commandments?

The speaker in the video? I didn't watch the video. Is that required to post on this thread?

 

[Leaf473]

In your POV - should Paul be condemned for isolating the TEN to the point that "Honor your father and mother IS THE FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in the Bible. (See Eph 6:2)

No. If you consider my entire post, it doesn't look like Paul is doing this

When it comes to whether one commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment...

#############

Again - I do appreciate your work in getting Eph 6:2 set up as the perfect response to a post. That indeed is helpfu.

Well, I think the perfect response would deal with a person's entire post.

It looks like Paul "edits" the whole law, including the Ten Commandments, the same way.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:14 - New American Standard Bible

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Is it true that in "all the Bible" the command "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 -- in your POV?

No, there are other Commandments outside of the 10 that also have a promise that occur before the 10 are listed. For example,

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 12:1-2 - New American Standard Bible

Abram Journeys to Egypt - Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go from your country, And from your relatives And from your father’s house, To the land which I will show you; And I will make you into a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing;

www.biblegateway.com

The 10 can be separated from God's other commandments, just as the Commandments in Leviticus can be separated from the Commandments in Exodus.

However, when we are talking about all of God's Commandments, and whether one commandment should be edited any more - or any less - than any other commandment, well, it's important to consider them all.

 

[daq]

@BobRyan, the video in your opening post is set to begin playing at the 16:29 mark. Is that your intent? meaning you are only asking that we watch the video from that point to the end? That's what I did, but I just want to make sure I am not missing anything from before that point because I did not watch it from the beginning.

 

[daq]

If we were Jews living before Christ, you would have a point. However, after Christ, we have also the New Testament:

Nowhere does the N/T overthrow or overrule the Torah, Prophets, and Writings. Moreover, if your reasoning were to be correct, then not even the first great commandment would have anything to do with you.

Mark 12:28-31 ASV
28 And one of the scribes came, and heard them questioning together, and knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, What commandment is the first of all?
29 Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one: [Deut 6:4]
30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. [Deut 6:5]
31 The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [Lev 19:18] There is none other commandment greater than these.

"Hear, O Yisrael"... So then, according to the doctrines of those who claim the Torah is only given to Yisrael, not even the first great commandment is given for them, and neither even the second great commandment because it is from Leviticus.