Question for rapture people

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Non-profit Prophet said:
I too believe you said that, but you are not the authority! Where does Rev 20 say they are on the earth? Rather than cut-&-pasting the entire chapter,.

I didn't copy and paste the chapter. I only directed you to it and it's a short chapter to read anyways so no reason for you to complain about it.

I’m simply asking where you think it says they are on the earth. (And before you tell me to read it, I’ll let you know right now that not only have I read it at least 100 times, I have written a book about that entire chapter- I know what it says in two languages)

Why would there be a camp of the saints if no saints were in it? Obviously the saints are on the Earth when they reign with Christ and they have a camp they live in. Rev 5 also makes clear the reign is on the Earth. I'm glad you have read it 100 times in two languages but you missed what was there.

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 20, 2020

keras said:
The answer is in those scriptures. The Saints never leave the earth. Eventually God comes to dwell with mankind here.

Revelation 20 is all about earthly happenings. As is all of Revelation.
If you believe that any of it is Spiritual, then it is up to you to prove it.

You’re saying that NONE of the book of Revelation is spiritual?!?! So there WILL be a lady wearing a red dress riding on a dragon with 10 heads on the earth?!?! Wow, there will be creatures with four faces, locusts with men’s faces, Jesus riding on a horse with a huge sword for a tongue... I guess if none of it is spiritual, as you state, all this will actually occur and be seen on earth... wow!

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
I didn't copy and paste the chapter. I only directed you to it and it's a short chapter to read anyways so no reason for you to complain about it.

I wasn’t complaining about it, I merely wanted you to present a specific passage that agreed with what you said... I still only have your interpretation- nothing from scripture.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Non-profit Prophet said:
I wasn’t complaining about it, I merely wanted you to present a specific passage that agreed with what you said... I still only have your interpretation- nothing from scripture.

No, I referred to two things from scripture and where to find them that proves the saints are in the Earth in Revelation 20, and Revelation 21 starts with the NHNE. You asked how people get to the NHNE and I answered they were already there.

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
I didn't copy and paste the chapter. I only directed you to it and it's a short chapter to read anyways so no reason for you to complain

Why would there be a camp of the saints if no saints were in it? Obviously the saints are on the Earth when they reign with Christ and they have a camp they live in. Rev 5 also makes clear the reign is on the Earth. I'm glad you have read it 100 times in two languages but you missed what was there.[/QUOTE

ewq1938 said:
No, I referred to two things from scripture and where to find them that proves the saints are in the Earth in Revelation 20, and Revelation 21 starts with the NHNE. You asked how people get to the NHNE and I answered they were already there.

How are they “already there?” This is all
I’m asking.... How and when did they get there? You make it sound as if they’ve always been there. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying but you are not answering my question. When did they get there? Are they there now?

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 20, 2020

keras said:
The answer is in those scriptures. The Saints never leave the earth. Eventually God comes to dwell with mankind here.

So, what you’re saying here is that the current earth and the new earth are the same earth? Is this what you believe?

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Non-profit Prophet said:
You make it sound as if they’ve always been there. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying but you are not answering my question. When did they get there?

The saints that reign with Christ are the dead that currently are in heaven and those that die from now until the second coming. When Christ leaves heaven at the 7th trump he will resurrect them and bring them with him. The saints that survive the GT will be changed and then raptured to meet Christ in the clouds to meet him and the others. They all will follow Christ to the Earth for the rest of the second coming events which mainly concerns Armageddon. They will be on the Earth from that time until Revelation 21 when the NHNE begins.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

keras · Feb 20, 2020

Non-profit Prophet said:
You’re saying that NONE of the book of Revelation is spiritual?!?! So there WILL be a lady wearing a red dress riding on a dragon with 10 heads on the earth?!?! Wow, there will be creatures with four faces, locusts with men’s faces, Jesus riding on a horse with a huge sword for a tongue... I guess if none of it is spiritual, as you state, all this will actually occur and be seen on earth... wow!

Yes; Revelation is not Written in a Spiritual sense.
Mostly it will take place literally and the parts that are allegorical can easily be explained using common sense and as the Bible explains for us.
Your comments display a lack of understanding and a demeaning attitude toward me.

Non-profit Prophet said:
So, what you’re saying here is that the current earth and the new earth are the same earth? Is this what you believe?

Yes.
God will change the earth, making it into the place described in Revelation 21 to 22.
His faithful people never leave the earth, we will be made immortal for Eternity and God will dwell with us here. Rev 21:3 We will see His face; Rev 22:4

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 21, 2020

keras said:
Yes; Revelation is not Written in a Spiritual sense.
Mostly it will take place literally and the parts that are allegorical can easily be explained using common sense and as the Bible explains for us.
Your comments display a lack of understanding and a demeaning attitude toward me.

Yes.
God will change the earth, making it into the place described in Revelation 21 to 22.
His faithful people never leave the earth, we will be made immortal for Eternity and God will dwell with us here. Rev 21:3 We will see His face; Rev 22:4

Your feelings that I expressed a demeaning attitude toward you are unwarranted... It is frustrating to repeatedly ask a question and receive only responses that seem to avoid a direct answer. You’ve now provided the answer, and I thank you for that... unfortunately, you’re mistaken.

As I had expected, you maintain your non-belief in any type of harpazo in that you have created the scenario that earth will be transformed beneath our feet with no biblical support. Your conclusion here is based on assumption and a clever manipulation of God’s Word to suit your fanciful theory.

As far as Revelation not being spiritual, please read 4:2. It clearly states John was “in the spirit” and also “in heaven,” and NOT on earth. His viewpoint was “in the spirit.” Revelation was written from an “in the spirit” perspective. It is a spiritual account of literal events, but it is spiritual!

nolidad · Feb 21, 2020

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:
Preface: I'm of the mind that there is no rapture. But I was wondering for those who believe in one, can you provide Old Testament proof that God or anyone else spoke of it? In Amos, it's said that God doesn't do anything except He reveal it to the prophets first. And please, if you're going to post, you can respond with something better than an abstract bit in Genesis where it's said that Enoch was taken up. OK? Thanks!

Sorry for being so late to the party!

But there is no direct reference of the rapture in the OT. And AFAIK there is no implied reference either.

There are many things the OT prophets were not told by God! That was a historic reference for Jewish prophets for the Jewish people.

In the church age when a Jew gets saved they become part of the body of Christ and we have a whole different set of promises than th eOT saints do. The rapture of the church prior to the commencement of the 70th week of Daniel being one of them!

keras · Feb 21, 2020

Non-profit Prophet said:
It is a spiritual account of literal events, but it is spiritual!

Anomalous and quite confused!
We will soon see how the end times will pan out.
But if you want to believe the Lord is going to take you to live in heaven, you contradict the Lord's Prayer as well as the Words of Jesus. John 3:13

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 21, 2020

keras said:
Anomalous and quite confused!
We will soon see how the end times will pan out.
But if you want to believe the Lord is going to take you to live in heaven, you contradict the Lord's Prayer as well as the Words of Jesus. John 3:13

I never said I believe the Lord will take me to live in heaven... Nice try diverting the conversation by attempting to accuse me of something I’ve never stated. Try again?

Oberamagau · Feb 21, 2020

Douggg said:
Jesus was a prophet, and God Himself. The rapture has not happened yet, but it has been revealed by Jesus and his servant Paul. 1Thessalonians4:13-18. Luke 21:34-36. And awareness of the rapture is so widespread, it cannot be said that it has not be revealed.

Following the rapture, and after the great tribulation here on earth comes to a close, the raptured saints return with Jesus in Zechariah 14:5, the Lord cometh with all His saints.

Do 'raptured saints' return with Christ as part of his army? There's lots of evidence that this army is an army of ANGELS and NOT people/saints.

Matthew 25:31 tells us that Christ will return with angels and SAINTS are NOT mentioned.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Mathew 16:27 Jesus says,

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

In Mathew 24:31 Jesus says,

"And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

In Mathew 13:49 Jesus says,

"So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just."

In Mathew 25:31 Jesus says,

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory."

In Mark 8:38 Jesus said,

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."

In Luke 9:26 Jesus said,

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels."

2 THESSALONIANS 1:7 Paul says,

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."

In 1 Thes. 4:16 Paul says,

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel..."

So we can conclude that "hagioi", which literally means "the holy (...)", always refers to "the holy angels."

The Old Testament

In Job, Psalms, Daniel, and Zechariah "holy ones" refers to angels. In Daniel 8 the word saints is used and is the same Hebrew word 'kadosh' and that word is used for angels. The 'saints' Daniel is referring to in 8:13 is 'angels'.

The word saints in Zechariah 14 is the word "qadowsh." It's the same word that refers to angels. The interlinear does NOT use the word SAINTS in Zech. 14:5… "and the Lord my God shall come, and all the "holy ones" with Thee". Dr. E.W. Bullinger suggests the “holy” ones are angels and I'm convinced they are.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him That sat on the horse and against His ARMY. (of angels)

His army of angels!

In 1 Thes. 3:13 the KJV uses the word saints...The interlinear uses the words "HOLY ONES" NOT saints.

In JUDE 14 - The KJV uses the word saints, the interlinear uses the Words, "holy ones" NOT saints.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints. (holy ones)

SAINTS is an adjective - used without a noun it is translated "saints" referring to people in Matthew 27:52; Acts 26:10; Romans 1:7; 15:25-26; Ephesians 3:8; 4:12; Philippians 1:1; 4:21). "Saints" refers to angels in 1 Thessalonians 3:13; and Jude 1:14. "The holy one" refers to Jesus in Mark 1:24 and Acts 3:14. When used as an adjective with a noun it is always translated "holy". It used of men in Luke 1:70; Acts 3:21; and 2 Peter 3:2. It is used of angels at Jesus' second coming in Matthew 25:31; Mark 8:38; and Luke 9:26. It is used of Jesus in Acts 4:27; and 4:30. It is used of the Holy Spirit in Mark 1:8; 13:11; Luke 4:1; and Acts 2:4.

Now that may help us determine if the army in Rev. 19:20 can be saints! We know that angels are mentioned several places as returning with Christ. That means in Revelation 19:20 they ARE God's returning army! Even though this battle is AFTER the resurrection, that in no way means the resurrected saints RETURN with Christ and his angels because SAINTS are angels - NOT people - and people are NOT part of God's army.

Christ and His army of angels return and will fight this battle as Christ comes to earth, He first appears in the clouds - raises the dead and living believers, then continues on to do battle.

The rapture happens at the end of tribulation. Believers are removed so that they are kept safe from the big battle.

Douggg said:
Jesus was a prophet, and God Himself. The rapture has not happened yet, but it has been revealed by Jesus and his servant Paul. 1Thessalonians4:13-18. Luke 21:34-36. And awareness of the rapture is so widespread, it cannot be said that it has not be revealed.

Following the rapture, and after the great tribulation here on earth comes to a close, the raptured saints return with Jesus in Zechariah 14:5, the Lord cometh with all His saints.

Do 'raptured saints' return with Christ as part of his army? There's lots of evidence that this army is an army of ANGELS and NOT people/saints.

Matthew 25:31 tells us that Christ will return with angels and SAINTS are NOT mentioned.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Mathew 16:27 Jesus says,

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

In Mathew 24:31 Jesus says,

"And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

In Mathew 13:49 Jesus says,

"So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just."

In Mathew 25:31 Jesus says,

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory."

In Mark 8:38 Jesus said,

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."

In Luke 9:26 Jesus said,

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels."

2 THESSALONIANS 1:7 Paul says,

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."

In 1 Thes. 4:16 Paul says,

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel..."

So we can conclude that "hagioi", which literally means "the holy (...)", always refers to "the holy angels."

The Old Testament

In Job, Psalms, Daniel, and Zechariah "holy ones" refers to angels. In Daniel 8 the word saints is used and is the same Hebrew word 'kadosh' and that word is used for angels. The 'saints' Daniel is referring to in 8:13 is 'angels'.

The word saints in Zechariah 14 is the word "qadowsh." It's the same word that refers to angels. The interlinear does NOT use the word SAINTS in Zech. 14:5… "and the Lord my God shall come, and all the "holy ones" with Thee". Dr. E.W. Bullinger suggests the “holy” ones are angels and I'm convinced they are.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him That sat on the horse and against His ARMY. (of angels)

His army of angels!

In 1 Thes. 3:13 the KJV uses the word saints...The interlinear uses the words "HOLY ONES" NOT saints.

In JUDE 14 - The KJV uses the word saints, the interlinear uses the Words, "holy ones" NOT saints.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints. (holy ones)

SAINTS is an adjective - used without a noun it is translated "saints" referring to people in Matthew 27:52; Acts 26:10; Romans 1:7; 15:25-26; Ephesians 3:8; 4:12; Philippians 1:1; 4:21). "Saints" refers to angels in 1 Thessalonians 3:13; and Jude 1:14. "The holy one" refers to Jesus in Mark 1:24 and Acts 3:14. When used as an adjective with a noun it is always translated "holy". It used of men in Luke 1:70; Acts 3:21; and 2 Peter 3:2. It is used of angels at Jesus' second coming in Matthew 25:31; Mark 8:38; and Luke 9:26. It is used of Jesus in Acts 4:27; and 4:30. It is used of the Holy Spirit in Mark 1:8; 13:11; Luke 4:1; and Acts 2:4.

Now that may help us determine if the army in Rev. 19:20 can be saints! We know that angels are mentioned several places as returning with Christ. That means in Revelation 19:20 they ARE God's returning army! Even though this battle is AFTER the resurrection, that in no way means the resurrected saints RETURN with Christ and his angels because SAINTS are angels - NOT people - and people are NOT part of God's army.

Christ and His army of angels return and will fight this battle as Christ comes to earth, He first appears in the clouds - raises the dead and living believers, then continues on to do battle.

The rapture happens at the end of tribulation. Believers are removed so that they are kept safe from the big battle.

ewq1938 · Feb 21, 2020

Oberamagau said:
Do 'raptured saints' return with Christ as part of his army? There's lots of evidence that this army is an army of ANGELS and NOT people/saints.

He comes from heaven with people and angels.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrected body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead saints that resurrect are not brought to Jesus in a rapture but are brought with Jesus before the rapture even begins. That's a very important thing to recognize. Only those living saints are raptured and brought to Jesus and those he brought with him from heaven.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jesus comes WITH his resurrected saints and then the living saints are raptured up to meet them.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The saints and angels make up the heavenly army that comes from heaven.

Jesus does NOT come alone, and does NOT rapture up the resurrected saints, and then has a second rapture of the living saints. There is only ONE rapture and it is only for those that hadn't died!

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Again, something awaits us in heaven. Is it not the new glorified body given in a heavenly resurrection?

If scripture interprets scripture then I submit:

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Though Jesus was a carpenter's son, I do not believe he is literally speaking of building a house in heaven for us but this being a reference to what 2 Corinthians 5:1 touches upon, a new body in heaven.

Oberamagau · Feb 21, 2020

In Jude 1:14 saints are "holy ones" which are angels.
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/jud1.pdf
I didn't say Jesus returns alone. I'm saying that he returns ONLY with his angels.

Rev 19:14 "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Why presume the "armies in heaven" are resurrected believers? Are resurrected believers ever called to be part of an Army? I can see angels as being prepared to do battle but resurrected believers?

Why would God send recently resurrected believers into battle without some training and orientation? The Lord just can't throw resurrected believers into battle without some guidance, instruction, and training.

Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle."

2 Timothy 2:4 "No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier."

Christ and His army of angels return at the end of tribulation. They will fight this battle as Christ comes to earth. He first appears in the clouds - raises the dead and living believers, then continues on to do battle with his angels.

There are several verses that say Christ returns with his angels but not one of them also mentions saints.

Douggg · Feb 22, 2020

Oberamagau said:
Do 'raptured saints' return with Christ as part of his army? There's lots of evidence that this army is an army of ANGELS and NOT people/saints.

The answer to the question is yes, because the armies are clothed in white, the righteousness of the saints. Revelation 19:8 and Revelation 19:14.

Oberamagau · Feb 22, 2020

Douggg said:
The answer to the question is yes, because the armies are clothed in white, the righteousness of the saints. Revelation 19:8 and Revelation 19:14.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in Heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Revelation 19:13-14

Are the ‘armies in Heaven clothed in white linen’ following Jesus out of Heaven at his Second Coming angels or the Bride of Christ? Rev. 19:8 and 14 says - “white linen is the righteousness of the Saints” - clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

You suppose that if these Saints in 'white linen' are now coming out of Heaven they had to have first been previously raptured.
Does it say here, or anywhere else, that these armies coming out of Heaven are previously raptured HUMAN believers? No, this is mere speculation with no scriptural support.

Individuals in the Scriptures who are also clothed in white linen:

And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. Revelation 15:6

These angels in Heaven are wearing the same apparel as those guys on horses with Jesus. Mary and the others at the tomb saw an angel clothed in a long white garment (Mark 16:5). Daniel also saw an angel clothed in linen (Dan. 10:5). So did the two angels which spoke to the apostles at Christ’s Ascension.

And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? Acts 1:10-11

To say the armies following Jesus out of Heaven are NOT angels because they are clothed in white linen is absolute speculation. This is a prime example of the way the rapture theorists fabricate ‘proof texts’; like inserting their beliefs into this Scripture to ‘prove’ a point, while ignoring other relevant passages that clearly describe the event of Jesus coming out of Heaven with his angels.

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with his mighty angels, 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Matthew 25:31

Again, when Jesus comes in the clouds with power and great glory, and begins his reign on earth, he will have brought all the angels out of heaven with him.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27

Jesus brings ALL the angels of Heaven with him at his Return. When Jesus comes out of Heaven with his army the resurrection/catching away has NOT happened yet! It happens AFTER he appears in the clouds THEN the angels gather his elect from the four winds of heaven.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:26-27

Douggg · Feb 22, 2020

Oberamagau said:
Are the ‘armies in Heaven clothed in white linen’ following Jesus out of Heaven at his Second Coming angels or the Bride of Christ? Rev. 19:8 and 14 says - “white linen is the righteousness of the Saints” - clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The armies of heaven, are the returning saints and the angels.

Oberamagau said:
Jesus brings ALL the angels of Heaven with him at his Return. When Jesus comes out of Heaven with his army the resurrection/catching away has NOT happened yet! It happens AFTER he appears in the clouds THEN the angels gather his elect from the four winds of heaven.

The elect gathered from the 4 winds of heaven takes place after Jesus returns and applies to gathering of all of the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to earth (in the future). Matthew 24:31 applies to Ezekiel 39:28.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

keras · Feb 22, 2020

Douggg said:
The armies of heaven, are the returning saints and the angels.

Pure unsupported opinion.
I have asked you before; you MUST provide a verse that says God will take His people to heaven, if you promote the 'rapture to heaven'.
You have failed to do so, yet you persist in promoting that false theory.

The elect will be gathered from the four winds of the heavens....
NOT of heaven, where God resides. You twist and misapply this verse. Bad you.

Non-profit Prophet · Feb 22, 2020

keras said:
Pure unsupported opinion.
I have asked you before; you MUST provide a verse that says God will take His people to heaven, if you promote the 'rapture to heaven'.
You have failed to do so, yet you persist in promoting that false theory.

The elect will be gathered from the four winds of the heavens....
NOT of heaven, where God resides. You twist and misapply this verse. Bad you.

once again, I haven’t NEVER stated that I believe anyone will “live in heaven!” I don’t have to prove anything that: #1 I don’t believe! #2 I never indicated I believed it! #3 I’ve never promoted it!

Why are you so stuck on that? And why do you persist in assuming you know what I believe? I haven’t twisted or misapplied anything, but YOU HAVE- I’ve confronted you with it and you responded by lying about my beliefs! And now, to avoid addressing your lies and twisting of scripture, you’re trying to turn the table on me and make me out to be in error. NOTHING I’ve written is in error.

Where does scripture say the earth will be transformed under our feet? That’s the twist you’ve put on scripture, and you don’t have an answer so you cover that by falsely accusing me of twisting scripture when there is no statement I’ve made to support your nefarious strategy to discredit what I have said.

Willl you continue lying about what I’ve said, or will you answer the question?!

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