The Book of Revelation

keras · Apr 19, 2017

Riberra said:
What is the purpose of the 144,000 sealed from the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL mentioned in Revelation 7?

It is them who will proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. The angel with the loud voice, Revelation 14:6-7, is simply an allegory for 144,000. Proved by Isaiah 66:19 and will be a final fulfilment of Jesus sending out the 72 in Luke 10:1-10. [72 + 72 X 1000 = 144,000]
Nowhere does the Bible say they, or anyone else will go to heaven.

Riberra said:
Do you think that is referring to Jesus spiritually appearing standing on Mount Sion here on the Earth or rather that this scene mentioned in Revelation 14:1-5 is about the 144,000 redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
who have been translated like Enoch and taken to Heaven before the Throne of God after the sealing [remember that -the mount Sion- can refers to Heaven sometimes [Hebrews 12:22]?

You have added your opinion here.
I have pointed out repeatedly that God's throne and all that accompanies it, is spiritual and can be seen on the earth if God wills it. Revelation 7 and 14 are both entirely about earthly events.
Why anyway, would God take the 144,000 or anyone away before they have completed their tasks? The 2 Witnesses preach, are then murdered, THEN are taken to heaven, but as Jesus will Return at the end of the 1260 days, they will immediately accompany Him back to earth.

Douggg · Apr 19, 2017

Matthew Twentyfour said:
All other terms the bible uses: Tribulation, Great Tribulation, Wrath and Daniel's 70th week are all synonmously refers to the final 7 years before the second coming.

The word tribulation is not in the bible referring to the 7 years. Great tribulation begins when the AOD is setup to be worshipped on Day 1185 in the middle part of the 7 years. Daniel 70th, i.e. he confirms the covenant for one week - is the final seven years.

Matthew Twentyfour said:
This is wrong Douggg. The bible mentions peace and safety in the new testament. The prophecies in the NT is about the church. The prophecies in the OT is about Israel.

Saying peace and safety is not a prophecy regarding the church saying that, because in 1thessalonians5, Paul says believers are not in darkness, concerning the times and seasons. It is the unbelievers who will be saying peace and safety.

1thessalonians5:
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Matthew Twentyfour said:
And look where the words "peace and safety" is found. It's written by Paul in 1st Thessalonians 4-5. This is the scripture by Paul on the rapture of the church. The rapture is for the church. It has nothing to do with Israel.

You're confusing what Paul wrote "peace and safety" and connecting it to the middle of the tribulation when the a/c invades Israel. This is totally not correct. Paul wasn't writing about Israel in 1st Thessalonians 4 and 5.

The Jews will be saying peace and safety for the biggest part of the first half of the 7 years, because it will come following Gog/Magog, and the arrival of the little horn, with Israel thinking he is their messiah.

In 1thessalonians4, is the rapture, which of course applies to the church. The sudden destruction coming upon "them" - in 1thessalonians5 is obviously not talking about sudden destruction the church.
The day of the Lord begins when the person goes into the temple, unexpectedly, sits and claims to be God.

The rapture could take place before the 70th week starts. Or maybe not, right up to when the Day of the Lord begins.

day1 - confirming of the covenant, the person anointed the King of Israel.
day (???) - the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Day of the Lord begins.
day (???) - God has the person killed and in disdain for the person brings him back to life - the beast
day 1185 - the Abomination of Desolation statue image of the beast is made. Great Tribulation begins.

The Jews flee to the mountains.

day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend to heaven.

42 months the beast rules the world, free from the two witnesses battling him.

day 2475 - the cosmos is removed and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God in heaven

for 45 days the Kings of the earth assemble their armies at Armageddon to stop Jesus.

day 2520 - Jesus returns to earth.

Matthew Twentyfour said:
The words great tribulation is only mentioned 3 times in the entire bible, you can easily check and see none of the writers used the words great tribulation to refer to the second half. None.

But there is enough information in Daniel 12:11-12 to know that the great tribulation is the last 1335 days of the 7 years. Which is roughly the second half. Up to when the last 1335 days begin - the world will be saying peace and safety, because following Gog/Magog the 7 years begins, and the world will be thinking it has entered the messianic age. So that time of thinking peace and safety, the world will not be in tribulation.

Matthew Twentyfour said:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Now everyone knows this scripture refers to the end of Daniel's 70th week when Christ returns at the second coming.

Look what Matthew wrote. He said immediately after the tribulation. This includes the second half of Daniel's 70th week. Now if the bible actually does separate the first half as the tribulation and the second half as the great tribulation, shouldn't Matthew had written "immediately after the great tribuiation" instead?

Great tribulation is implied from the previous verses.

In verse 29, Immediately after the tribulation "of those days". What days? Jesus just said in verse 21....
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It is talking about the time period beginning when the AOD is setup to be worshiped.

Riberra · Apr 19, 2017

keras said:
It is them who will proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. The angel with the loud voice, Revelation 14:6-7, is simply an allegory for 144,000.

The 144,000 sealed have nothing to do with the angel preaching the everlasting Gospel.

Or about any other angels mentioned in Revelation 14

6 And I saw another angel FLY in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there FOLLOWED ANOTHER ANGEL, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the THIRD ANGEL followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

keras · Apr 20, 2017

Riberra said:
The 144,000 sealed have nothing to do with the angel preaching the everlasting Gospel.

Your belief, that you are perfectly entitled to.
But I believe the Isaiah 66:19 and Isaiah 49:6b are the key to the true understanding of what the 144,000 are selected for. And Luke 10:1-10 gives the forerunner to it.
The fact of the angel spreading the Gospel, coming immediately after the 144,000 are chosen, is significant. Revelation 14:1-7

All the other angels that you quote are also allegories for what will happen by the means God has planned.

Riberra · Apr 20, 2017

keras said:
Your belief, that you are perfectly entitled to.
But I believe the Isaiah 66:19 and Isaiah 49:6b are the key to the true understanding of what the 144,000 are selected for. And Luke 10:1-10 gives the forerunner to it.

Isaiah 66:19 and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
is a prophecy about a time when the glory of God will be preached to the Gentiles ....this begin in the time of Jesus and the apostles ...

Luke 10:1-10 refer to the 70 that the apostles have appointed to preach the Gospel to the gentiles about 2,000 years ago

keras · Apr 20, 2017

Riberra said:
Isaiah 66:19 and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
is a prophecy about a time when the glory of God will be preached to the Gentiles ....this begin in the time of Jesus and the apostles ...

So when were 'they' gathered? Isaiah 66:18b
The Gospel has still not been preached to about 1/4 - 1/3 of the world yet and in the 10/40 window [mostly Muslim areas] it's getting worse, not better, as populations burgeon. Even in my country, New Zealand, there are now many young people who have never looked at a Bible, let alone heard the Gospel.
Only the 144,000 will fulfil this task.

Riberra said:
Luke 10:1-10 refer to the 70 that the apostles have appointed to preach the Gospel to the gentiles about 2,000 years ago

Actually the correct translation says 72. Called 'messengers' in Luke 9:52

1 Corinthians 10:11 Tells us that many, if not most things that happened to the Israelites, were symbolic and were recorded as a warning and instruction for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.

Riberra · Apr 20, 2017

keras said:
So when were 'they' gathered? Isaiah 66:18b

The sinners of ALL NATIONS will be gathered at Armageddon along with the armies of the World , they wil see the Glory of God and at that moment they will be destroyed .... [Revelation 16:14-16 --- Revelation 19.]

keras said:
The Gospel has still not been preached to about 1/3 of the world yet and in the 10/40 window [mostly Muslim areas] it's getting worse, not better, as populations burgeon.

That the majority of Muslims in Muslim countries don't want to hear about the Gospel is different that saying that it was not preached in Muslim countries ... the Christians in Muslim Countries are actually tortured and killed for their faith.
The first 4 trumpets Judgment will affect 1/3 of the Earth [Revelation 8]It appear that actually 1/3 of the Earth is where people majoritary reject Jesus and the Gospel ---Muslims,Boudhist,Hinduism...and Judaism.

keras said:
Even in my country, New Zealand, there a]
re now many young people who have never looked at a Bible, let alone heard the Gospel.

Yet ,the Gospel is preached in your Country but some don't want to hear about it.

keras said:
Only the 144,000 will fulfil this task.

Revelation 14:6 tell us that this will be a FLYING ANGEL who will preach the everlasting Gospel to the whole World ....

keras said:
Actually the correct translation says 72. Called 'messengers' in Luke 9:52

Do you deny that the Gospel BEGIN TO BE Preached to the Gentiles by Paul and The Apostles after that Israel rejected the Gospel...

keras said:
1 Corinthians 10:11 Tells us that many, if not most things that happened to the Israelites, were symbolic and were recorded as a warning and instruction for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.

Which i agree ...no doubt that God will Judge the World one day.

keras · Apr 21, 2017

Riberra said:
The sinners of ALL NATIONS will be gathered at Armageddon along with the armies of the World , they wil see the Glory of God and at that moment they will be destroyed ....

What we were talking about was the 144,000. When are they gathered?, as per Isaiah 66:18b-19
Revelation does not say every sinner will be at Armageddon. Only the armies of the nations.

Riberra said:
Revelation 14:6 tell us that this will be a FLYING ANGEL who will preach the everlasting Gospel to the whole World ....

You are just like many others here, a truth just flies right over your head.
I already showed you how all the angels of Revelation are simply allegories for prophesied events, that God will use different means to accomplish. How many people would listen to the terrifying spectacle of an angel shouting at them? Will the angel actually reap the earth with a sickle? Will we see and hear the 7 angels blow their Trumpets?
The Gospel has not yet been preached to every people group and it will only be after the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that people will be receptive to it. Revelation does not specify the purpose and task of the 144,000, but Isaiah 66:19 plainly does.

BABerean2 · Apr 21, 2017

jgr said:
Thanks BAB2; I've never had this many guffaws in less than 4 minutes before.

It was produced by Stephen (or Steven, maybe) Straub, whose YouTube name is skydiver626.
He is the son of a Baptist pastor who abandoned the pretrib doctrine and wrote a book titled "Changed", which is about the pretrib doctrine and why it is not scriptural.

He has a number of excellent videos on YouTube about the pretrib doctrine.

He helped me connect 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 to chapter 4 through the word "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10.

Riberra · Apr 21, 2017

keras said:
What we were talking about was the 144,000. When are they gathered?, as per Isaiah 66:18b-19
Revelation does not say every sinner will be at Armageddon. Only the armies of the nations.

You are just like many others here, a truth just flies right over your head.
I already showed you how all the angels of Revelation are simply allegories for prophesied events, that God will use different means to accomplish.
How many people would listen to the terrifying spectacle of an angel shouting at them? Will the angel actually reap the earth with a sickle? Will we see and hear the 7 angels blow their Trumpets?

That is right that there is lot of allegories [Jesus and the angel will not use a real sickle,we will not hear any trumpets ]

Noneless, it is said that the SEALING THE OF THE 144.000 will be made by angels...Revelation 7

keras said:
How many people would listen to the terrifying spectacle of an angel shouting at them?

I see that you don't believe in the existence of angels...and that God use them sometimes for a mission.

What will get the most attention,AN ANGEL FLYING in the SKY preaching the Everlasting Gospel and saying FEAR GOD AND GIVE GLORY TO HIM FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT IS COME : ...Revelation 14:6-7

Another ANGEL Flying in the SKY warning people to NOT worship the Beast and not taking his Mark. Revelation 14:9-12.

or 2 ordinary humans knocking at your door like the Jehovah witness?

As for Isaiah 66:15-24 you are totally out of the field with your interpretation if you are not able to see that this will happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS/Beginning of the Millennium and ANOTHER PART AFTER THE MILLENNIUM....see verse 22
Isaiah 66:15-24
15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

keras · Apr 21, 2017

Riberra said:
That is right that there is lot of allegories [Jesus and the angel will not use a real sickle,we will not hear any trumpets ]

Noneless, it is said that the SEALING THE OF THE 144.000 will be made by angels...Revelation 7

You haven't answered my post #271 at all;

keras said:
What we were talking about was the 144,000. When are they gathered?, as per Isaiah 66:18b-19
Revelation does not say every sinner will be at Armageddon. Only the armies of the nations.

And of course I believe in Angels. They serve God in heaven, that's another reason that humans are not needed there, and God does use them as messengers, etc. Angels put God's Seal onto the foreheads of the 144,000, but it is not their task to spread the Gospel, we Christians have that duty and honour.

Riberra said:
As for Isaiah 66:15-24 you are totally out of the field with your interpretation if you are not able to see that this will happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS/Beginning of the Millennium and ANOTHER PART AFTER THE MILLENNIUM....see verse 22

Isaiah 66:15-21 must happen before Jesus Returns. Verses 22-24 are after.
He does not 'come in fire' at His glorious Return. The many prophesies describing the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath do not relate to Revelation 19:11-21 and Matthew 24:29-31 clearly states: After that time of tribulation....there will appear in the sky.....everyone will see the Son of Man coming in power and great glory.
Isaiah 66:21 says God will select Levite priests from among His people, to serve in the new Temple, all as clearly described in Ezekiel 40 to 48. Also Revelation 5:9-10

Riberra · Apr 21, 2017

keras said:
You haven't answered my post #271 at all;
-What we were talking about was the 144,000. When are they gathered?, as per Isaiah 66:18b-19

Isaiah 66:18 is about those mentioned in verse 17.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Riberra · Apr 21, 2017

keras said:
You haven't answered my post #271 at all;
Revelation does not say every sinner will be at Armageddon. Only the armies of the nations.

Not just the armies will be assembled at Armageddon for destruction ALL THE SINNERS [Those with the MARK]....and the flesh of ALL MEN , both free and bond, both small and great

Revelation 19

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Luke 17
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles[THE FOWLS] be gathered together. = --->>in the Valley of Megiddo /Armageddon Revelation 19:17-18

keras · Apr 22, 2017

Riberra said:
Isaiah 66:18 is about those mentioned in verse 17.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Even in the KJV, there is a sentence break between '....thoughts. and It shall come.... You have falsely written this out to suit yourself. Shame on you.
My REB has a paragraph break there. Remember; the Chapter and verse breaks were inserted in the Middle ages and those monks made many errors.
You are flat out wrong, in your funny idea that it is the wicked that the Lord will gather to see His glory!

Riberra said:
Not just the armies will be assembled at Armageddon for destruction ALL THE SINNERS [Those with the MARK]....and the flesh of ALL MEN , both free and bond, both small and great

Another wrongful KJV addition to scripture; the REB does not say; all men in Rev 19:17. Proved by how there will be those who oppose the Lord in the Millennium.

Riberra, there have been times that I have had to admit I was wrong; what about you?

Honoluluwindow · Apr 22, 2017

Nothing in revelation is new info except for the last two chapters that concerns the eternal order.

Riberra · Apr 22, 2017

keras said:
Even in the KJV, there is a sentence break between '....thoughts. and It shall come.... You have falsely written this out to suit yourself. Shame on you.
My REB has a paragraph break there. Remember; the Chapter and verse breaks were inserted in the Middle ages and those monks made many errors.
You are flat out wrong, in your funny idea that it is the wicked that the Lord will gather to see His glory!

The wicked will be gathered at Armageddon to be destroyed by His Glory
.
...while the SURVIVOR BELIEVERS still alive and remain who have not taken the Mark nor worship the Beast will be changed into immortality and caught up in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the Air...

--The believers will be in the Clouds with Jesus in the air while that Jesus will destroy the wicked assembled at Armageddon---

keras said:
Another wrongful KJV addition to scripture; the REB does not say; all men in Rev 19:17. Proved by how there will be those who oppose the Lord in the Millennium.

Riberra, there have been times that I have had to admit I was wrong; what about you?

You are blaming the KJV ....i take my reference from the KJV .....What makes you so sure that the REB is not in error ?The more easy to read versions like the REB ,NIV ,NASB ..ect..are well known to omit whole sentence or change words .

BABerean2 · Apr 22, 2017

Riberra said:
Not just the armies will be assembled at Armageddon for destruction ALL THE SINNERS [Those with the MARK]....and the flesh of ALL MEN , both free and bond, both small and great

Revelation 19

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Luke 17
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles[THE FOWLS] be gathered together. = --->>in the Valley of Megiddo /Armageddon Revelation 19:17-18

The parable of the wheat and tares is another passage that confirms you are correct.

Mat 13:36　 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."　

Mat 13:37　 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.　

Mat 13:38　 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.　

Mat 13:39　 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.　

Mat 13:40　 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.　

Mat 13:41　 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,　

Mat 13:42　 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.　

Mat 13:43　 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!　

We find this harvest in Revelation chapter 14 and at Armageddon.
It is the same event.

Rev 16:15　 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."　

Rev 16:16　 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

.　

keras · Apr 22, 2017

Riberra said:
You are blaming the KJV ....i take my reference from the KJV .....What makes you so sure that the REB is not in error ?The more easy to read versions like the REB ,NIV ,NASB ..ect..are well known to omit whole sentence or change words .

YOU altered the KJV, by putting a comma instead of a sentence break, mid point of Isaiah 66:18.
So you DO think God will display His glory to the wicked?

Why display your bias? You know nothing about the REB, which is by far the best translation available. The KJV, dedicated to; The High and Mighty James, King of England and Scotland, is rife with error and outdated words, in an outmoded style. It has led many astray and be aware, the KJV only people are just playing Satan's game; confusion and dissention among Christians.

Riberra said:
The wicked will be gathered at Armageddon to be destroyed by His Glory .
...while the SURVIVOR BELIEVERS still alive and remain who have not taken the Mark nor worship the Beast will be changed into immortality and caught up in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the Air...

Those who are alive and remain shall join them, [the resurrected souls of the martyrs, Revelation 20:4] to meet the Lord in the air, Matthew 24:31, so we shall always be with Him. 1 Thess 4:17
I do not see any changing into immortality of the living Christians there. You have added that. Another wrong statement by you, as the Bible plainly says that all the people of the world, dead and alive, await final judgement after the Great White Throne; post Millennium.

BABerean2 said:
The parable of the wheat and tares is another passage that confirms that you are correct.

So if all the wicked are destroyed at Jesus' Return, how come we are told in Zechariah 14:16-22 and in Revelation that there will still be those who will disobey God. And at the end of the Millennium, a huge army of them is gathered for the last battle against God. Revelation 20:7-10
Also there is no reason why there should not be a judgement before Jesus' Return, just as many prophesies say. Proved by how Jesus will Return with His garments already splashed with the blood of the nations, on His Day of vengeance and wrath; Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17 and 100 other graphically described prophesies about that terrible Day.

Riberra · Apr 22, 2017

keras said:
YOU altered the KJV, by putting a comma instead of a sentence break, mid point of Isaiah 66:18.
So you DO think God will display His glory to the wicked?

Matthew 24:29-31 tell us that [the tribes of the Earth] will MOURN when they WILL SEE Jesus coming in Glory in the clouds ... Will you say that this was added in KJV ?

keras said:
Those who are alive and remain shall join them, [the resurrected souls of the martyrs, Revelation 20:4] to meet the Lord in the air, Matthew 24:31, so we shall always be with Him. 1 Thess 4:17
I do not see any changing into immortality of the living Christians there. You have added that.

Do you agree that the believers still alive and remain unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory will be with Jesus in the air while that Jesus will destroy those who have taken the Mark ?

keras said:
Another wrong statement by you, as the Bible plainly says that all the people of the world, dead and alive, await final judgement after the Great White Throne; post Millennium.

Revelation 20:4-6 tell us about those that will not be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment....

keras said:
So if all the wicked are destroyed at Jesus' Return, how come we are told in Zechariah 14:16-22 and in Revelation that there will still be those who will disobey God. And at the end of the Millennium, a huge army of them is gathered for the last battle against God. Revelation 20:7-10

If as you say the believers still alive and remain unto the coming of Jesus are not changed into immortality- then these are them who will repopulate the Earth during the millennium- ....and like when Noah and his family have repopulated the Earth after the flood ...then inevitably sin will try to "reappear"...that is why Jesus will run the nations with a rod of Iron during the millennium until Satan is released to tempt the World again near the End of the millennium

keras · Apr 22, 2017

Riberra said:
Matthew 24:29-31 tell us that [the tribes of the Earth] will MOURN when they WILL SEE Jesus coming in Glory in the clouds ... Will you say that this was added in KJV ?

YOU are guilty of altering scripture to suit your theories.
Re Matthew 24:29-30, people will mourn because they have failed to acknowledge God and now it's too late. We Christians will rejoice as we see out Lord and Saviour coming. Psalms 106:1-5 + +

Riberra said:
Do you agree that the believers still alive and remain unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory will be with Jesus in the air while that Jesus will destroy those who have taken the Mark ?

What exactly will happen at the Return is unclear in scripture. There is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, Revelation 19:5-9, the events of Zechariah 14:3-5 and Jesus being seen by the whole world. The sequence is not clear, so we just do not know how that great Day will work out.

But the gathering to Jesus by His angels, I see as a transportation, the same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39-40 Philip was not made immortal, just taken from one place to another.

Riberra said:
Revelation 20:4-6 tell us about those that will not be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment....

Yes, ONLY the martyrs will receive immortal bodies then, EVERYONE else must await the GWT Judgement at the end of the Millennium.

Riberra said:
If as you say the believers still alive and remain unto the coming of Jesus are not changed into immortality- then these are them who will repopulate the Earth during the millennium- ....and like when Noah and his family have repopulated the Earth after the flood ...then inevitably sin will try to "reappear"...that is why Jesus will run the nations with a rod of Iron during the millennium until Satan is released to tempt the World again near the End of the millennium

Agreed.
Sin will always be there and Satan will again deceive many, as he makes his last attempt to usurp God.

The Book of Revelation

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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