The Book of Revelation

Big Drew

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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?
 

Another Lazarus

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Your honesty is better than gold and better than people guessing in the dark.

However, it really doesnt matter if you dont understand the Revelation. You wont be saved even if you understand it unless you do this :

Matt 5:44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,

The Jewish teachers understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion,
but we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father,

46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?


may Jesus bless you all HalleluYah
 
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dysert

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I've been studying and teaching Revelation for most of my life. I've read countless commentaries on it (and written my own). If memory serves, it seems they all have a particular "slant", so searching for a commentary without a slant may be a lost cause.

Personally, I think the way to understand Revelation is to read it over and over until it starts making sense. You see, the symbols used in the book are actually defined in Scripture, so you don't need to guess at what they mean. The more you read the book, the more "Aha!" moments you'll have when you remember, "Oh yeah; that symbol was defined as meaning xyz up in Chapter 17."

I'd be glad to help you understand it, but I have a "slant" too. I'll get you started, though, by having you read Rev. 1:19, where it tells us that the book talks about three periods of time: what you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will be after these things.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?
a
The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?
A good place to start could be Matthew chapter 24. Here Jesus was asked two questions and he answered them both at the same time. He talked about when the temple would be tore down in Jerusalem and He talked about the end of the church age. This helps us to sort through what has happened, what is happening and what is going to happen at the end of this dispensation. God's plan is to save Israel only we know that the gentiles are branches that will be grafted into the tree.
 
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rocknanchor

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Hi Big Drew!

Agree with the honesty comment!!

I have noticed those whom know or knew the scripture so well that "you couldn't stump him", are the ones I find least bias, most understandable.

I went to the Bible Institute founded by R.O. Corvin, Ph.D, D.R.E. It was one of his qualities that may have contributed to his giving such an impression of Revelation.

I find it a little surprising you wouldn't have that quality either?
 
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dysert

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A good place to start could be Matthew chapter 24. Here Jesus was asked two questions and he answered them both at the same time. He talked about when the temple would be tore down in Jerusalem and He talked about the end of the church age. This helps us to sort through what has happened, what is happening and what is going to happen at the end of this dispensation. God's plan is to save Israel only we know that the gentiles are branches that will be grafted into the tree.
Matthew 24 is indeed a good resource, but if someone doesn't have a decent grasp of eschatology, that might be just as confusing as Revelation itself. After all, Jesus is answering two questions related to two different periods of time. Separating these periods of time in His answers will be difficult for some. (I have written a short paper on the Olivet Discourse which attempts to clear that up. Should anyone care to look at it, it lives at
OLIVET_DISCOURSE.PDF)
 
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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?

Hello

The nt and ot share a language ie sea = people, lamb - christ, horn = figuratively of a person, a symbol of strength. You must know Christian numerology ie a numbers significance - 5 number of grace, 6 man under sin, etc.

Revelations is advanced and you will need to get right into the ot to understand it. I personally am no expert. If you havent yet, get a concordance to find the actual meaning of the greek. Recommend strongs exhaustive biblical concordance - buy it or online site.

Matthew henry is my favourite commentry but this is 200 yrs old. Hopefully someone else can recommend any good new commentries.

Important
Get into isaiah and Jeremiah...heaps!.

for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

We can know the signs and times but can never know the day. :)
 
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victorinus

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I've only read Revelation once
there was a short period in my life when I read it every day and each time I would get a new idea but I was very motivated to do so - you shouldn't worry about it if you are not
 
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BABerean2

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I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

I used to have the same problem.
Why?
Because most try to force the text into a perfect chronological sequence.


Sometime ago, a friend shared with me a handout from a local Baptist preacher. It showed the repeating nature of the book, which is made up of overlapping visions given to John.

Below are a few examples.

The Second Coming of Christ is found in the following text.

Those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of chapter 6. Many of the same characters "mighty men", "captains", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at Armageddon. They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, if the Lamb were not present at that time. The seals book is a mini-summary of the whole book of Revelation. Christ removes the seals one at a time and then John is told to "Come and see.".

The time of God's wrath and the time of the judgment of the dead found in Revelation 11:18. Read John 5:27-30 to understand the judgment and resurrection of "all" the dead.

The "harvest" of Revelation chapter 14.

When He comes "as a thief" in Revelation 16:15-16, at Armageddon.
This connects the event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 to the timing of the event on "the Day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief" in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 to 2 Peter 3:10, which are clearly Second Coming passages.


In chapter 19, again at Armageddon.

The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson including the fall of Satan and the birth and death of the "man-child", who is Christ. (Read Psalm 2 to see who rules with a rod of iron.)

If you want to understand the Olivet Discourse use the clear timeline found in Luke's Gospel account.
Luke 21:20-24 is the destruction of Jerusalem, during 70AD. Verse 25 starts the Second Coming passage.
Compare Luke's timeline to the accounts in Matthew and Mark and then it will make sense, because the timeline is not as clear in the other two Gospels.


.
 
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victorinus

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Because most try to force the text into a perfect chronological sequence.

Sometime ago, a friend shared with me a handout from a local Baptist preacher. It showed the repeating nature of the book, which is made up of overlapping visions given to John.
I agree with this - it is called recapitulation - a theory started with victorinus
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?

Hi, I agree with the advice my brothers here in this thread have given you. I have a slant to my understanding, but, I will share with you a little of my experience with the book. I was very young when I read the Revelation the first time. I was very, very confused. In the 80's I took it back up again and really started to study. I ran across a workbook called How To Study Bible Prophecy For Yourself by Tim Lahaye. He has a pre-trib slant which I also have, but that book got me started my serious study and gave me guidance into the OT prophecies . I hope this helps.
How to Study Bible Prophecy for Yourself: Tim F. LaHaye: 9780890818176: Amazon.com: Books
 
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Hidden In Him

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I've only read Revelation once...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it. Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology?

I once also tended to stray from insisting on comprehending the Book (and hence studying it), because all of the debating I heard about eschatology and the rapture and all just made my head swirl as a new believer. But this was actually a wise decision on my part at the time. IMHO, the worst thing you can do is try to force yourself to interpret books like Revelation in the power of the flesh, i.e. without the Spirit's guidance. This is just an exercise in futility. Too many things that must be revealed by the Spirit before you can even begin to piece it all together, i.e. overlapping visions and such, as BABerean2 mentioned.

That having been said, everything dysert said in Post #3 is helpful. And it is unfortunately indeed true that I don't think anyone can really recommend any resources to you in print at the present time that aren't A. slanted, and/or B. not very authoritative.

My recommendation would be to take the following steps, and in order:

1. Pray that the Lord begins revealing the mysteries of Revelation to you. I don't mean as in going by the assumption of saying an occasional prayer "Of course, Lord, You know I need your help." I mean confessing total dependance upon Him to understand it, and seeking Him earnestly in prayer over it daily, spending most of your energy early on on not even reading the Book. Instead, spend time in prayer until you hear the Spirit start to reveal something to you about a particular image or passage.

2. Then go to your Bible and/or reference materials. I own a huge scholarly library, but seek out my resources only as the Spirit leads me to as well. Start studying the passage He is beginning to put some revelation in your spirit about, and then be open to having Him lead you to other passages as you go.

3. Rinse and Repeat. The secret is line upon line, here a little there a little (Isaiah 28:10). Once you get one thing accurate, it opens you up to being able to understand another verse or passage accurately, and that in turn opens up the possibility to accurately understand other passages elsewhere that correlate with your given passage, and give clues to the proper chronology of everything. Then the principle of, "To Him who has, more will be given" kicks in (Matthew 13:11-13). Like a tree, understanding and revelation builds within you layer upon layer, and then you really start making headway.

I can recommend several Bible Studies I have written myself, but like those of us posting here may fully understand, it is actually better that you hear and be taught by the Holy Spirit Himself for a little while. Until you develop the ability to recognize the inner confirmations and witnesses of the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, you won't know if what you are receiving from me or anyone else is true or not anyway.

Hope this helps, and please feel free to message/conversation me if you have specific questions. I would qualify that statement by saying this: I readily understand the vast majority of Revelation, but I do attest to the fact that the overlapping nature of the visions is pretty heady stuff, and it can take a lot of energy keeping everything in your head at once when you come across new questions of where a particular event fits in with the overall chronology. It can become like playing a chess game and needing to see the whole board at once, and all the moves and counter move consequences of if "this" is the proper interpretation here. And I confess it's been a while since I was studying the Book, so I'd have to "pick the scroll back up" if you will, and put everything back in my head chronology-wise to answer questions about a specific event in the overall chronology of things.

Not currently involved in much study of Revelations at the moment, but things always return when the Spirit has something new He needs to teach me, so maybe at some point in the future we'll meet up when we're into the Book at the same time and get into some details.

God bless, and the grace of the Holy Spirit be upon you.

Oh, that's one other thing: Pray specifically for His grace to be granted to you in the form of revelation. He always answers when you ask for grace : )
 
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Hidden In Him

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Revelation 12:17 "καὶ ὠργίσθη ὁ δράκων ἐπὶ τῇ γυναικὶ καὶ ἀπῆλθεν ποιῆσαι πόλεμον μετὰ τῶν λοιπῶν τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς τῶν τηρούντων τὰς ἐντολὰς τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ἐχόντων τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ."
So, to be a Christian you must:
1. Keep the Ten Commandments
2. Be a martyr of Christ (be ready to die for the strong belief that Jesus is the Messiah, the High Priest of God, and that he was resurrected - not reincarnated - after being crucified)

The ten commandments, harkaz? I promise not to disturb this thread with debate clutter; very well compacted as it stands right now. But don't you think there might be a few more than just 10, given that we're in the New Testament era now? I will refrain from asking questions any further, and leave you a chance to reply.
 
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Hidden In Him

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The ten commandments, harkaz? I promise not to disturb this thread with debate clutter; very well compacted as it stands right now. But don't you think there might be a few more than just 10, given that we're in the New Testament era now? I will refrain from asking questions any further, and leave you a chance to reply.

P.S. There's actually primarily only two, but they're amplified upon to the nth degree in New Testament documents.
 
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Douggg

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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?
okay Drew, here's what to do. Get one of those yellow stickie note pads. Write these things down and use a small paper clip to attach each one to the group of chapters.

After you go through and paper clip all the stickies - set the bible down, until the next day or so. After giving your mind a day or two to rest, then take stickie 1, read it, remove it to the side, and read or scan through those chapters. The next day do the same thing with stickie 2. And so on till you are completely through the book. What you are doing is training your mind how Revelation is structured. It's going to make things a lot easier. So you can pick up your bible and read right through Revelation that it will flow for you, and you will be able to begin to understand it.

stickie 1 - Chapters 1-3 Jesus tells the churches how to behave.

sitckie 2 - Chapters 4-5 John is caught up to heaven to be shown the end times

stickie 3 - Chapter 6 is an overview of the 70th week of Daniel 9, start to finish.

stickie 4 - Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.

sitckie 5 - Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats

stickie 6 - Chapter 12 is the 70th week relevant to Israel.

stickie 7 - Chapters 13-14 is the second half of the 70th week, the great tribulation.

stickie 8 - Chapters 15-16 is the second half of the 70th week, God's vials of wrath.

stickie 9 - Chapters 17-18 is about Mystery Babylon, the beast, the seven kings and ten kings

stickie 10 - Chapter 19 is the glorious return of Jesus to complete the 70th week.

stickie 11 - Chapter 20 is the 1000 year rule of Jesus upon this earth, and the final curtain for Satan.

stickie 12 - Chapters 21-22 is about eternity, our place in the new heaven and new earth
 
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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?

My advice is this: Christ is a Teacher (the greatest of); John, is a teacher. A good teacher knows how to teach. A good teacher will build upon the teachers that came before. Don't understand the teacher as most do, as if he teaches "pin the tail on the symbol" "see if you can look around you and find the meaning outside of the teachings": people have turned the book into a kind of, apocalyptic scavenger hunt. "I see it! I see it!" Avoid that mindset and that way of "seeing": this is not a "guessing game" and God did not leave us to rely upon our own ability to "figure out what modern machinery John is 'trying' to explain": the language employed is precise.

Instead, look back to the books that come before it. Perceive John not as saying "See if you can find or guess what I'm symbolizing" but as saying "If you've listened to the prophets before me, and heard them, you should already know the meaning of the words." John is writing in cryptography. You know how in war, behind enemy lines you hear over the radio things like "John has a long moustache" "The chair is against the wall": it's the same here. Now, carnal-minded men with no understanding of the cryptography will be looking around for someone named John, who has a long moustache; engaging in a fruitless "find the literal application"; but the ones who know the cryptography know what "John has a long moustache" really means.

So let the teachers before teach the symbols and the phrases. For instance, you know the "666" right? "Count the number"? Now, would it surprise you that the OT specifically tells us how to do that? It does. Look at Numbers chapter 1 (Numbers, apt, eh?) and you'll see instruction on how to "count the number of a name" and what that means. You'll see the same phrasology being used "count the number" "the number of the name" "the number of [name] was" etc. This even repeats other times in scripture. "Joab counted them, and Levi he did not count" "count the number of Israel" "the numbers of the men of Israel" etc.

Now, you'll run across men who will say "Don't listen to the bible, that is not how to count the number of a name; listen to me" then offer you some convoluted nonsense that is no where in scripture. "Transumte the letters into Greek, tally the result according to the numeric value; transpose that number into Hebrew" or worse just pointing at the number "I see it!" But if you let the bible teach you how to understand; the teachers are all building on the teachings prior to them. That is how competent teaching works. Now, you will find one man in scripture whose number, when counted, is 666. Coincidence? No.

Again, look at this:

Jer 15:2 And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.

Death; sword; famine; captivity. Sound familiar? Four horsemen? Conquering, sword, famine, death? Ever heard of the "four sore judgments" sent against Jerusalem?

Ec 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The past is apparently the future. The question is, how well do you know the past? The biblical past? That will determine how well you know the future. Look here:

Eze 24:1 Again in the ninth year, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.

Does the Lord seem rather, emphatic, on getting that specific day-month recorded by the prophet? Did you know that the king of Babylon is the one-and-only man in the entirety of scripture who actually has the exact day-month of his coming recorded for all future generations to know?

Lu 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

2Ki 25:1 And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about.

The past is the future.
 
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