The Book of Revelation

BABerean2

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I can't find hardly anything here I disagree with, some of the discussion of the covenant seems tweaked but otherwise sound. The passage in 11:18 is at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, this second round of judgments has seized control of the earth, God won't take possession for another 3 1/2 years. The angel made this statement before sounding the trumpet:

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants, the prophets." (Rev. 10:7)​

At they time they will know what even the prophets and apostles didn't know, exactly how God judges the nations at the end of the age. There is no resurrection there, that doesn't happen to the very end:

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)
The first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation, the final one is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ.

The text of Revelation 10:7 says the "mystery" would be finished at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. What is the "mystery" that would be finished?

Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 

Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 


Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 

The text above makes it clear that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever", at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
It does not say 3 1/2 years later.
It does not say 1,000 years later.


Rev 11:16  And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 

Rev 11:17  Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

The text above says the time of the judgment of the dead comes right after the 7th trumpet.
This bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead is found in John 5:28-30. It is bracketed with verses making it plain that Christ is the judge.


This is the End of the story.

THE END

.......................................................................................................................

Chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history including the birth and death of the man-child, who is Christ. Psalm 2 reveals that He will rule with a rod of Iron.

The Second Coming of Christ is found in several different places in the Book of Revelation.

It is found in those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of chapter 6. They would not be hiding if the Lamb were not present. Many of the same characters, "captains", "mighty men", "free", and "bond" are found in chapter 19.

It is found at the end of chapter 11, as we saw above.

In the "harvest" of chapter 14.

At Revelation 16:15-16, when He "comes as a thief" at Armageddon.

In chapter 19.

And in chapter 20.

If you try to force the text to fit a perfect chronology based on Revelation chapter 20, it will only produce tremendous confusion.

The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is found below.

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (It is a spiritual resurrection, based on faith.)


The second resurrection found in John chapter 5 is of the body and is found in John 5:27-30.
It includes the judgment of "all" the dead.


Joh 5:27  And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 

Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 

Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 

The same man that recorded the Book of John also later recorded Revelation chapter 20.
He understood the "first" resurrection and the "second" resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.


.....................................

If you think I have "tweaked" the New Covenant, please show me where.

.
 
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mark kennedy

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I said the book of Revelation is not in Chronological order. I did not say the Seals/Trumpets and Vials are not in Chronological order. You do realize that both can be true statements right? Revelation 19 is the Full Seven Year Period.

Seals commence the Tribulation period, the four horseman are actually the same guy, this is a prophetic description of the rise of the Antichrist. Then the Martyrs beneath the throne complain, obviously because they were slaughtered in his inaugural bloody rampage. Then God's judgment is poured out beating the armies of the Antichrist into submission but after the wrath subsides he somehow convinces them they can win. He'll make a lot of speeches, effectively saying this:

“Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.” (Psalm 2:3)​

The trumpets won't commence for 2 to 3 years, there is plenty of time for their hearts to harden and the 'strong delusion' (2 Thess. 2:11), to sink in. Remember Pharaoh hardened his heart against the early judgments, 'Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuses to let the people go' (Exodus 7:14). God waited four generations for the sin of the Amorites to reach 'full measure' (Genesis 15:16).

The Wedding of the Lamb follows other events from the vials of wrath (ch. 15+16), a scene where the armies of the Antichrist are having a celebration because they survived the vials. Babylon is destroyed and then the Wedding feast of the Lamb.

15) 7 Angels given the 7 Vials of Wrath
16) Vials of Wrath: V-1 thru V-7
17) Babylon and the Beast with 7 heads
18) The wine of the wrath of her fall
19) The wedding feast of the Lamb
20) The Dragon bound 1,000 years
21) The New Jerusalem

This is the final battle, where Christ returns on a white horse with his church just as he promised:

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (Rev. 19:19)​

Revelation 12 has a MID-WAY POINT (Israel flees at the 1260 Mark) just like Revelation 6 begins at the MID-WAY POINT. Rev. 13 starts at the MID-WAY POINT, as the Beast arises out of the Sea (When the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem he becomes the Beast).

Revelation 6 are the seals being opened, the first seal is opened and the Antichrist pops out, there is just no way this happens at the half way mark. The book has a clear narrative, the little horn uproots three other kingdoms, during his campaign Babylon starts killing off her old rivals. This is the 'thilipsis' (G1722 θλῖψις thlipsis blb), the persecution of the church that results in the 'tribulation' wrath of God. The same word is used to speak of both the persecution of the church (Matt. 13:21; Matt. 24:9; Matt. 24:21), and the wrath that follows:

Immediately after the tribulation G2347 of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matt. 24:29)​

Revelation 17 is not a real time event. REMEMBER, Rev. 16:17 finises with IT IS DONE. Then In Rev. 16:19 Jesus defeats the Beast/Anti-Christ//Babylon. So Rev. 17 really happens during the Four Horsemen's being released. It is all Religion being destroyed.

Rev. 17 happens after the vials of wrath are poured near the end, the opening of the seals happened almost 7 years earlier. Babylon is divided into three parts but it's still standing:

And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (Rev. 16:10)​

It's not over yet, they think they have won, she is drunk with the blood of the saints, Jewish and Gentile, and they have endured horrible wrath. Insane with their delusional rampage anyone not joining them is beheaded and they have all assembled in a scene that looks like a big rock concert. Probably in a large stadium or valley that serves as an natural amphitheater.

The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. (Rev. 17:16)​

Armageddon, the valley of Jehoshaphat, is the site of an historic battle where God drove out the allied invasion from surrounding nations.

And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's. (2 Chronicles 20:15)​

Prophetically Joel calls it the 'Valley of Decision'. In the days of Jehoshaphat the enemies of Israel aided in their own destruction by attacking one another:

For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another. And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped. (2 Chron. 20:23,24)​

At the end of the Tribulation, the Beast destroys Babylon.

Revelation 18 is only Babylon being destroyed by God, with plagues, the Seals/Trumpets and Vials. So those two chapters are not in order. Revelation 19 is the same as Rev. 16 which says IT IS DONE.

Your taking that out of context, the vials are poured out ch. 16, Babylon and the Beast are having a big gathering that leads to their destruction ch. 17, the Beast destroys Babylon ch. 18, then the wedding feast of the Lamb ch. 19:

16) Vials of Wrath: V-1 thru V-7
17) Babylon and the Beast with 7 heads
18) The wine of the wrath of her fall
19) The wedding feast of the Lamb

Revelation 7 is the Church n Heaven, no doubt they came at the Rapture, so that event is a Seven Year Event also. The Seals/Trumpets and Vials are in perfect order....Nothing else is.

Indeed they are in heaven but only because they had been martyred. God avenges their deaths with the opening of the sixth seal, the kingdoms of earth become the kingdom of God as a result of the trumpet blasts, the kingdom of the Beast is destroyed as a result of the vials and finally Babylon and the armies of the Antichrist are destroyed in one final battle.

What your trying to defend seems random, a text without a context is a pretext and the narrative has a distinctive context. Truly there are many symbolic riddles, not easily discerned, but readily discernible if your willing to do a sound exposition. The Revelation is much simpler then Matthew or Hebrews, certainly easier to understand then the Pentateuch or the prophets. I see no reason to make such a straight forward narrative this convoluted and confused. Follow the narrative where it leads and there is a clear chronology of events that definitely are presented in chronological order.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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First of all I have to do something about the creative formatting.

The text of Revelation 10:7 says the "mystery" would be finished at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. What is the "mystery" that would be finished?

Ok let's take a look at your proof texts:

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. (Rev 10:7) 
This is the mystery that God revealed to the prophets, who by the way, all spoke of Christ (Matt. 1:22; Luke 9:22; Luke 18:31; Luke 22:37; Luke 24:26; Luke 24:44). Have you never prayed, 'thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven'? This is the coming of the kingdom of God and Christ in fulfillment of his promise of returning in power and glory. Truly the kingdoms of earth have become the kingdom of God here but more wrath will follow as the kingdom of the Antichrist is removed. At this point God has laid siege, God has surrounded the strongholds and pounding on the door, it's as good as his but the battle isn't over. Their rule is finished but the battle continues because not all of his enemies are defeated.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Eph 5:32)​

This is the mystery of Christ and the church, the body of Christ. It's revealed that Christ loves us and avenges the persecution the prophets, apostles and all believers face in one way or another. A prime example is the sixth seal, God punishes those who died for their witness, which is why the Law taught:

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. (Romans 12:19)​

That's why we turn the other cheek, give asking nothing in return, go the other mile and pray for those who despitefully use you. It's God's right to avenge and he will repay them and does, the Revelation is a promise of that.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev 11:15) ​

The Apostles didn't really know how this would end, when Christ would come and how he would establish his kingdom. We don't really understand ourselves. At this point in the tribulation it will be revealed.

The text above makes it clear that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever", at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
It does not say 3 1/2 years later.
It does not say 1,000 years later.

The trumpets are sounded right at the middle point of the Tribulation. The two witnesses finish their testimony, die and are raised, ascending into heaven. At this point there is great fear in Jerusalem which coincides with the nation of Israel finally accepting Christ as their Messiah. As soon as that happens the key part of prophetic prophecy is fulfilled forever.

Let's say you become mayor of a city that is over ran with crime and violence. You win the election, take the oath and have a press conference. Your not going to announce crime is over but that you have taken office and addressing the issues. God's kingdom has come at this point, that doesn't mean the armies of the Antichrist are finally defeated.

And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Rev. 11:16-18)​

The text above says the time of the judgment of the dead comes right after the 7th trumpet.

The nations of the earth are being judged and the reward of the prophets and saints is at hand. It doesn't say 'right after', clearly those that destroy the earth are still at large. Your reading too much into the text, assigning meanings not intended.

This bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead is found in John 5:28-30. It is bracketed with verses making it plain that Christ is the judge.
This is the End of the story.
THE END

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:28-29)​

This happens at the end of the age:

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4,5)​

Chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history including the birth and death of the man-child, who is Christ. Psalm 2 reveals that He will rule with a rod of Iron.
The Second Coming of Christ is found in several different places in the Book of Revelation.

The woman the dragon and the child are reminiscent of the slaughter of the innocents

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

Another explicit reference that this is in the middle of the Tribulation

They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev. 11:2,3)​

"1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation to be references to represent a period of 1260 years (based on the 360 day Jewish year multiplied by 3.5).

It is found in those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of chapter 6. They would not be hiding if the Lamb were not present. Many of the same characters, "captains", "mighty men", "free", and "bond" are found in chapter 19.

They know this is the wrath of the Lamb and they are hiding themselves. It doesn't say the Lamb has appeared, we really don't know what they would or would not do, we only know how they react to the wrath that devastates them. Some of them may well be present at the coming of Christ in Rev. 19 but there is no clear indication they are the same thing. That's an old fallacy called equivocation, not the result of a sound exposition.

If you try to force the text to fit a perfect chronology based on Revelation chapter 20, it will only produce tremendous confusion.

If I try to make the thousand year reign of Christ fit into the end of the Tribulation it will cause confusion? Actually if you try to put it anywhere else your torturing the text and plunging yourself into endless circular logic.

If you think I have "tweaked" the New Covenant, please show me where.
.

You've lost me with that last one. I think I've been clear enough on the chronology and frankly, your discussion is all over the road. Randomly assigning times and meanings isn't a formula for a sound exposition. The Revelation has a straight forward narrative but you think it's continually having flash backs and is riddled with over lapping scenarios. The seals are at the beginning of the Tribulation, the trumpets in the middle and the vials of wrath come at the end.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Riberra

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So you think that a billion tons of superheated hydrogen plasma striking the earth; wouldn't be described as a 'fire'?
It is superheated at the near proximity of the SUN ....the space betwen the Earth and the Sun is cold ....
Over 70 prophesies describe the Lord's Day of wrath as a fire. Isaiah 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6, 2 Peter 3:7, + +
Joel 2:2b says that this CME strike will be the like has never been known before and will never be again.

Those prophecies don't talk about a CME .

That is: of unprecedented magnitude, not just a little fizzer like what happened in Quebec.
The event was the second in importance after the Carrigton event ...

Who is it that gives glory to God in heaven? Christians, that's who.
There will be no more Christians that will be in Israel in those time that the total number of Christians who live in Israel right now.Those Christians will Join the GROUP OF NEWLY CONVERTED JEWS MENTIONED IN
Revelation 11:13...who will see these events in Jerusalem ...the resurrection of the two witnesses ...who will GIVE GLORY TO THE GOD OF HEAVEN

But, as we know from, Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt, will attack and conquer them and I see the 7000 killed by the Rev 11:13 earthquake, as belonging to the AC's army. Although we see in Daniel 11:32, that some of the Christians do violate the Covenant and they may be killed for that.
Revelation 11:13 talk about a time when the group of freshly converted Jews along with the few Christians living in Jerusalem will realize that the "person"
who have killed the two witnesses is the Beast that is about to begin his 42 months reign....
 
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SherahEphraim

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I've read the New Testament multiple times, as well as most of the books of the Old Testament...I've only read Revelation once.

I recently tried to do so again...and I can never get into it. All the symbolic language. I've tried reading it from several different translations...I just don't get it.

Maybe it's because I don't concern myself with eschatology? My thoughts being, do the best I can while I'm here and the end will work itself out. So I guess I'm a pantribulation panmillenialist lol...whatever happens happens.

I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?
i would be careful with commentaries or anything like that, a sermon is good. use the KJV cause it hasn't altered scripture like new versions,as well as taking tons of scripture out. the KJV may seem harder to read at first, but it makes sense, especially the more you read it. it helps to read things over and over, reading the whole bible through brings you to a whole different understand. lots of other books parallel to revelations as well,or any book in general.

this sermon is good about it. it may help you understand. :)

 
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BABerean2

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First of all I have to do something about the creative formatting.



Ok let's take a look at your proof texts:

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. (Rev 10:7) 
This is the mystery that God revealed to the prophets, who by the way, all spoke of Christ (Matt. 1:22; Luke 9:22; Luke 18:31; Luke 22:37; Luke 24:26; Luke 24:44). Have you never prayed, 'thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven'? This is the coming of the kingdom of God and Christ in fulfillment of his promise of returning in power and glory. Truly the kingdoms of earth have become the kingdom of God here but more wrath will follow as the kingdom of the Antichrist is removed. At this point God has laid siege, God has surrounded the strongholds and pounding on the door, it's as good as his but the battle isn't over. Their rule is finished but the battle continues because not all of his enemies are defeated.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Eph 5:32)​

This is the mystery of Christ and the church, the body of Christ. It's revealed that Christ loves us and avenges the persecution the prophets, apostles and all believers face in one way or another. A prime example is the sixth seal, God punishes those who died for their witness, which is why the Law taught:

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. (Romans 12:19)​

That's why we turn the other cheek, give asking nothing in return, go the other mile and pray for those who despitefully use you. It's God's right to avenge and he will repay them and does, the Revelation is a promise of that.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev 11:15) ​

The Apostles didn't really know how this would end, when Christ would come and how he would establish his kingdom. We don't really understand ourselves. At this point in the tribulation it will be revealed.



The trumpets are sounded right at the middle point of the Tribulation. The two witnesses finish their testimony, die and are raised, ascending into heaven. At this point there is great fear in Jerusalem which coincides with the nation of Israel finally accepting Christ as their Messiah. As soon as that happens the key part of prophetic prophecy is fulfilled forever.

Let's say you become mayor of a city that is over ran with crime and violence. You win the election, take the oath and have a press conference. Your not going to announce crime is over but that you have taken office and addressing the issues. God's kingdom has come at this point, that doesn't mean the armies of the Antichrist are finally defeated.

And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Rev. 11:16-18)​



The nations of the earth are being judged and the reward of the prophets and saints is at hand. It doesn't say 'right after', clearly those that destroy the earth are still at large. Your reading too much into the text, assigning meanings not intended.



“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:28-29)​

This happens at the end of the age:

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4,5)​



The woman the dragon and the child are reminiscent of the slaughter of the innocents

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

Another explicit reference that this is in the middle of the Tribulation

They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev. 11:2,3)​

"1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation to be references to represent a period of 1260 years (based on the 360 day Jewish year multiplied by 3.5).



They know this is the wrath of the Lamb and they are hiding themselves. It doesn't say the Lamb has appeared, we really don't know what they would or would not do, we only know how they react to the wrath that devastates them. Some of them may well be present at the coming of Christ in Rev. 19 but there is no clear indication they are the same thing. That's an old fallacy called equivocation, not the result of a sound exposition.



If I try to make the thousand year reign of Christ fit into the end of the Tribulation it will cause confusion? Actually if you try to put it anywhere else your torturing the text and plunging yourself into endless circular logic.



You've lost me with that last one. I think I've been clear enough on the chronology and frankly, your discussion is all over the road. Randomly assigning times and meanings isn't a formula for a sound exposition. The Revelation has a straight forward narrative but you think it's continually having flash backs and is riddled with over lapping scenarios. The seals are at the beginning of the Tribulation, the trumpets in the middle and the vials of wrath come at the end.

Grace and peace,
Mark

All wrong systems of interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Modern Dispensational Theology, which was brought to America by John Darby about the time of the Civil War, is an excellent example.

The text below reveals that the seals book is a summary of the entire Book of Revelation.

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 

You may notice something about the changes in the sun, and moon, and stars in these two passages, which reveal they are the same event.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 

........................................................................................
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 

We have many of the same characters in Revelation 19.
It is the same event.


Rev 19:18  That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 

......................................................................................

For some reason you ignored the birth and death of Christ in Revelation chapter 12.


Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 


Psa 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 
Psa 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 
Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 
Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
 

Mat 2:13  And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 
Mat 2:14  When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. 

......................................................................
There is no 7 year tribulation period in the text.
You are producing one by adding together two of the references to the 3 1/2 year period.


You still have not really dealt with the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.
What does the text say?

ev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 


You also have Christ coming as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.
How are you going to make that fit?


Rev 16:15  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 
Rev 16:16  And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 

.
 
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Revealing Times

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Seals commence the Tribulation period, the four horseman are actually the same guy, this is a prophetic description of the rise of the Antichrist.
True, I argue this all the time, the First Seal (Anti-Christ/Beast) brings about the other three horses, of course, he conquers, kills and destroys much.

Then the Martyrs beneath the throne complain, obviously because they were slaughtered in his inaugural bloody rampage. Then God's judgment is poured out beating the armies of the Antichrist into submission but after the wrath subsides he somehow convinces them they can win. He'll make a lot of speeches, effectively saying this:..........“Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.” (Psalm 2:3)

The Martyrs ask for vengeance on those people on earth who murdered them = We are on track here. We however part ways a little now, I think all of the Seals are Gods Wrath. He has been blocking this type of thing from coming forth for 2000 years. Now Gods wrath/Anger is over flowing. The Seals are the Lambs Wrath. The Trumpets are the Holy Spirits Wrath and the Vials are the Fathers Wrath, all are of course Gods Wrath or the Day of the Lord.

There is no defeating the Beasts Army.....then a 2 year wait. The Trumpets follow very closely after the Seals as does the Vials after the Trumpets. He is the BEAST not the Anti-Christ (semantics, but pointing it out) after he Conquers Jerusalem.

Judgment 1,2,3 and 4 are the first four seals. Judgment 5 is showing the evidence of the Beasts horrific nature, thus God tells them to wait until their brothers have been killed also. In other words they can't be with Jesus in heaven like the Church is they have to wait until the Seven Years is finished, they missed the Rapture by not being ready, the are the Foolish Virgins.

Revelation 6 are the seals being opened, the first seal is opened and the Antichrist pops out, there is just no way this happens at the half way mark. The book has a clear narrative, the little horn uproots three other kingdoms, during his campaign Babylon starts killing off her old rivals. This is the 'thilipsis' (G1722 θλῖψις thlipsis blb), the persecution of the church that results in the 'tribulation' wrath of God. The same word is used to speak of both the persecution of the church (Matt. 13:21; Matt. 24:9; Matt. 24:21), and the wrath that follows:

Immediately after the tribulation G2347 of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matt. 24:29)

The Anti-Christ becomes THE BEAST who has 42 Months to rule when he Conquers Jerusalem (Half way point is 3 1/2 years or 42 months) And thus Israel (The Woman in Rev. 12) has 1260 Days where God protects her in the Wilderness = 42 Months does it not? Daniel 9:27 tells us the Anti-Christ reneges on his agreement at the MID-WAY POINT so that means he Conquers Israel at the Mid-way point meaning the White Horse (Conquering horse) goes forth at the Mid-way point. All the conquering three.........whatever is irrelevant to the time-line.

The Church is in Heaven, the REMNANT (Small part that's left) is who he comes after, because he is angry he cant get at Israel (Rev. 12).

Immediately After he Tribulation of those Days (the Start of the TROUBLES OF JACOB) The Sun and Moon will be darkened. OK......But that verse is about Jesus coming back AFTER THE TRIBULATION, not about the Sun and Moon being darkened after the Tribulation, of course they are darkened during the Tribulation, which is a long period of time, 3 1/2 years which is why God protects those Jews in the WILDERNESS for 1260 Days.

And there is no Babylon....its only the Nations that come against Israel. Read Rev. 16:19.

Rev. 17 happens after the vials of wrath are poured near the end, the opening of the seals happened almost 7 years earlier. Babylon is divided into three parts but it's still standing:

And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (Rev. 16:10)
Rev. 16:19....Its a TYPO I know, just pointing it out very everyone else.

Revelation 17 is the Harlot (False Religion) being Judged by God. When do you think the Anti-Christ who is now the BEAST starts destroying the Religions of the world where he can clam to be the ONLY GOD? When starts Conquering, OF COURSE !! At the Mid-way point or Rev. 6. He is chasing Israel into the Wilderness, standing in the Temple, coming after the REMNANT of the Christians who became Christians after the Rapture. So of course he will DESTROY FALSE RELIGION (Harlot) at this same time, his objective is to wipe out ALL RELIGIONS {He will not serve the God of his fathers NOR ANY GODS !! except the gods of war.} So he can be worshiped as God.....This starts when he goes forth to Conquer, Seal number 1. God uses the Anti-Christ/Beast and his Kings to Judge False Religion, because it is in THEIR HEARTS so he Judges False Religion (Harlot) and DESTROYS HER.

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. {All over the World means ALL FALSE RELIGION }

16 And the ten horns (Kings) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. { The Kings KILL HER OFF....She is no more. }

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

These Kings in League with he Beast Destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and all Religion, at the exact same time they come after Israel and the Remnant Christian Church.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts(Earthquake), and the cities of the nations fell (BABYLON or the Nations that Gather against Israel at Armageddon Vial #6) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So Jesus lands on the Mt. of Olives, the Great Earthquake splits the Mountain and thus the City. Then The NATIONS FALL which means those Nations who gathered at Armageddon, and God sees them as who? BABYLON which means he sees the FALSE GOVERNMENTS as Babylon.

Harlot = False Religion (Destroyed in Revelation chapter Six)

Babylon = False Government. (Destroyed by the Seals/Trumpets and Vials)

The Woman (False Religion) rode the Back of the Seven Headed Beast (False Government) but the Kings of the Last False Government KILL HER OFF, because they no longer desire to be co-mingled with the Harlot, they desire to have their King worshiped as GOD !! Thus she is needed no more. Thus Islam and all Religions are destroyed.

Your taking that out of context, the vials are poured out ch. 16, Babylon and the Beast are having a big gathering that leads to their destruction ch. 17, the Beast destroys Babylon ch. 18, then the wedding feast of the Lamb ch. 19:

16) Vials of Wrath: V-1 thru V-7
17) Babylon and the Beast with 7 heads
18) The wine of the wrath of her fall
19) The wedding feast of the Lamb

You are missing the POINT. Revelation 16:17 says IT IS DONE, Jesus Destroys BABYLON in Rev. 16, Rev. 17 and 18 is only Enhanced retelling of things that have already happened. Rev. 17 is the Harlot being Destroyed, it has nothing to do with Babylon. They are two different entities. The Kings hate the HARLOT in Rev. 17, but the same Kings in Rev. 18 cry and lament when Babylon is Burned. They are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES !!

The Harlots story is told, False Religion is Destroyed by the Kings.

Then Babylon's story is told in Rev. 18, she is the Nations of the World/False Governments and God reigns down his plagues on her, it starts with the Anti-Christ Conquering and killing at Seal number One and goes all the way to Vial number Seven where God wipes out what he sees as Babylon, Nations that come AGAINST HIM !!

Indeed they are in heaven but only because they had been martyred. God avenges their deaths with the opening of the sixth seal, the kingdoms of earth become the kingdom of God as a result of the trumpet blasts, the kingdom of the Beast is destroyed as a result of the vials and finally Babylon and the armies of the Antichrist are destroyed in one final battle.

What your trying to defend seems random, a text without a context is a pretext and the narrative has a distinctive context. Truly there are many symbolic riddles, not easily discerned, but readily discernible if your willing to do a sound exposition. The Revelation is much simpler then Matthew or Hebrews, certainly easier to understand then the Pentateuch or the prophets. I see no reason to make such a straight forward narrative this convoluted and confused. Follow the narrative where it leads and there is a clear chronology of events that definitely are presented in chronological order.

That's just not so brother. Notice in Seal #5 Jesus tells them they have to wait for their brothers to be killed also, meaning that the have to wait until the BEAST is Dead. They are the Beheaded who are Judged in Rev. 20:4 and then rule with Jesus on Earth. Those in Rev. 7 are the Church who were Raptured.

God avenges their Deaths when he defeats the BEAST and his Armies at Armageddon. That FINAL.
 
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Revealing Times

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Revelation 7 is about the saints that come out of the GT.

Again, you guys fail to understand scriptures because you let single words defeat the Mosaic God is showing us. The whole 2000 year period we live in between Jesus death and the Rapture is troubles/tribulation. Since the 2000 year period is longer than the Seven Year period it can be called the GREATER TRIBULATION PERIOD. The Seven Year period will be the time of the GREATEST TROUBLES, like the world has never seen before.

How many millions of Christians have been Murdered in the last 2000 years? Also Jesus warned in Matthew 24.......9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.........13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {We have to run the Marathon to the end, every person does.}

Jesus tells the Martyrs under the Alter that they have to wait until their Brothers are killed also. What part of that don't you get? Those in Rev. 7 are the Church who was Raptured. Again, not understanding the Rapture throws everything off.
 
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mark kennedy

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All wrong systems of interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Modern Dispensational Theology, which was brought to America by John Darby about the time of the Civil War, is an excellent example.

The text below reveals that the seals book is a summary of the entire Book of Revelation.

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 
Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 

You may notice something about the changes in the sun, and moon, and stars in these two passages, which reveal they are the same event.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 

........................................................................................
Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 
We have many of the same characters in Revelation 19.
It is the same event.

Rev 19:18  That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 

What? The sixth seal bring wrath on the emerging armies of the Antichrist and they lose. That's all those proof texts are telling us.

For some reason you ignored the birth and death of Christ in Revelation chapter 12.
It's reminiscent of the birth of Christ but the fact is that there is explicit reason to conclude this is half way through the tribulation:

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

This isn't fulfilled in the Gospel accounts, it's fulfilled half way through the Tribulation.
 
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mark kennedy

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True, I argue this all the time, the First Seal (Anti-Christ/Beast) brings about the other three horses, of course, he conquers, kills and destroys much.

The Martyrs ask for vengeance on those people on earth who murdered them = We are on track here. We however part ways a little now, I think all of the Seals are Gods Wrath. He has been blocking this type of thing from coming forth for 2000 years. Now Gods wrath/Anger is over flowing. The Seals are the Lambs Wrath. The Trumpets are the Holy Spirits Wrath and the Vials are the Fathers Wrath, all are of course Gods Wrath or the Day of the Lord.

So far so good...

There is no defeating the Beasts Army.....then a 2 year wait. The Trumpets follow very closely after the Seals as does the Vials after the Trumpets. He is the BEAST not the Anti-Christ (semantics, but pointing it out) after he Conquers Jerusalem.

No, he just leads it.

Judgment 1,2,3 and 4 are the first four seals. Judgment 5 is showing the evidence of the Beasts horrific nature, thus God tells them to wait until their brothers have been killed also. In other words they can't be with Jesus in heaven like the Church is they have to wait until the Seven Years is finished, they missed the Rapture by not being ready, the are the Foolish Virgins.

You were doing so good up till there, now way. The cause and effect couldn't be any clearer, believers are persecuted for their testimony, God's wrath follows.

I see no reason to continue.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I would like to get a better understanding of the book though. Are there any good study helps, that aren't slanted one way or the other, that anyone could recommend? Should I just pick up a Thompson chain reference and let scripture interpret scripture?

The only other books I have struggled with are the ones in the OT with all the begats...well and Leviticus...so what is it about this book?
Did YHWH answer you quest yet ?
This book is awkward at best, because there is so much false religion on earth for a long time, and they (the world) don't care - they (the world) like it that way.
 
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BABerean2

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What? The sixth seal bring wrath on the emerging armies of the Antichrist and they lose. That's all those proof texts are telling us.


It's reminiscent of the birth of Christ but the fact is that there is explicit reason to conclude this is half way through the tribulation:

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

This isn't fulfilled in the Gospel accounts, it's fulfilled half way through the Tribulation.

Very few people understand why the numbers 1,260 days or 1,290 days are found many times in scripture.

In the link below you will find a thread on the Hebrew calendar.

Ancient Hebrew Calendar

It is related to the fact that the Israelite calendar is based on a 7 year cycle.

Forum member Gideon is an expert on the ancient calendar.

............................................................................................

The text below could not be any clearer, based on Psalm 2.
You are ignoring what is plainly written in the text to make John Darby's system work.


Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 


You did the same thing with the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

You stated the text cannot mean what it plainly says, because it does not fit your 7 year tribulation period.

.
 
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keras

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It is superheated at the near proximity of the SUN ....the space betwen the Earth and the Sun is cold ....
Why don't you google Coronal Mass Ejection and find out some truth about what a CME is and what they can do, before making uninformed comments?

Revelation 11:13 talk about a time when the group of freshly converted Jews along with the few Christians living in Jerusalem will realize that the "person"
who have killed the two witnesses is the Beast that is about to begin his 42 months reign....
This idea is simply not scriptural and contradicts all the NT teaching of how ethnicity has no place in Christianity.
The inhabitants of all the holy Land will be God's holy people. All true Christians as Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 tell us. The are the vast multitude we see in Revelation 7:9, who have been protected by God during the terrible Sixth Seal disaster, Acts 2:19-21, caused by an explosion of the sun, Isaiah 30:26, that will literally cause all the graphically described events.
 
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mark kennedy

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Very few people understand why the numbers 1,260 days or 1,290 days are found many times in scripture.

In the link below you will find a thread on the Hebrew calendar.

Ancient Hebrew Calendar

It is related to the fact that the Israelite calendar is based on a 7 year cycle.

Forum member Gideon is an expert on the ancient calendar.

............................................................................................

The text below could not be any clearer, based on Psalm 2.
You are ignoring what is plainly written in the text to make John Darby's system work.


Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 


You are ignoring two explicit texts taken in context:

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

Another explicit reference that this is in the middle of the Tribulation:

They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev. 11:2,3)​

You did the same thing with the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

You stated the text cannot mean what it plainly says, because it does not fit your 7 year tribulation period.
The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth." (Rev. 11:18)​

Two things you managed to neglect, what I said and what the text says. I rest my case, thanks for the exchange.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Revealing Times

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You were doing so good up till there, now way. The cause and effect couldn't be any clearer, believers are persecuted for their testimony, God's wrath follows.

I see no reason to continue.
You should just admit, you can't overcome the truths I presented.
 
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Riberra

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Why don't you google Coronal Mass Ejection and find out some truth about what a CME is and what they can do, before making uninformed comments?
A CME is not a fire nor a flame ....
Coronal Mass Ejections | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center
Coronal Mass Ejections

Coronal mass ejections (CMEs) are huge explosions of magnetic field and plasma from the Sun's corona. When CMEs impact the Earth’s magnetosphere, they are responsible for geomagnetic storms and enhanced aurora. CMEs originate from highly twisted magnetic field structures, or “flux ropes”, on the Sun, often visualized by their associated “filaments” or “prominences”, which are relatively cool plasmas trapped in the flux ropes in the corona. When these flux ropes erupt from active regions on the Sun (regions associated with sunspots and very strong magnetic fields), they are often accompanied by large solar flares; eruptions from quiet regions of the Sun, such as the “polar crown” filament eruptions, sometimes do not have accompanying flares.
 
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keras

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A CME is not a fire nor a flame ....
Coronal Mass Ejections | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center
Coronal Mass Ejections
You can believe the disinformation put out by Govt agencies, designed to placate the sheeple.
I prefer to believe what the prophets tell us and from better researched and informed sources, we know there can [and will] be a CME that would kill millions and throw us back into the dark ages. Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 +
 
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BABerean2

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You are ignoring two explicit texts taken in context:

The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​

Another explicit reference that this is in the middle of the Tribulation:

They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev. 11:2,3)​


The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth." (Rev. 11:18)​

Two things you managed to neglect, what I said and what the text says. I rest my case, thanks for the exchange.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I did not ignore the woman. I have already shown you exactly how the text is related to other passages in the Bible.

The man-child who rules with a rod of iron is Christ. He has been called up to God and His throne when John recorded the text.

The woman who brought forth Christ is His mother, Mary.

We see from Matthew's Gospel that she and Joseph took the child and fled to Egypt to avoid the persecution of Herod, who was attempting to destroy the child when He was born. They stayed in Egypt for 3 1/2 years until they received the news that Herod was dead. 3 1/2 years is a commonly seen time-span in the Bible, because it is one half of the 7 year cycle on the Hebrew calendar.

Rev 12:4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 

Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 


Psa 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 
Psa 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 
Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 
Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 


Mat 2:13  And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 
Mat 2:14  When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. 


Do you deny that the man-child is Christ?

.....................................................................................

You may have noticed that the 7th trumpet is the "last" trumpet in the Bible.
Therefore it is connected to the "last" trumpet in 1 Corinthians chapter 15.
There is only one "last" trumpet.



1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 

1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 

1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 

1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 


This is why "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found right after the 7th trumpet, in Revelation 11:18.

John 5:27-30 is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.

How many is "all"?

The 7th trumpet is the end of the tribulation period, instead of the middle.



Do you deny that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet in the Bible?


.
 
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mark kennedy

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You should just admit, you can't overcome the truths I presented.
When it comes to eschatology and origins it's very seldom people even take it seriously. The text couldn't be clearer and the object here seems to change the clear meaning, apparently, to anything else.
 
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Riberra

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You can believe the disinformation put out by Govt agencies, designed to placate the sheeple.
I prefer to believe what the prophets tell us and from better researched and informed sources, we know there can [and will] be a CME that would kill millions and throw us back into the dark ages. Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 +
Do you know that this is NOAA in collaboration with Nasa who have made the program of monitoring the Sun with satellites in place ,to be able to warn people if a massive CME is about to hit the Earth ?

Coronal Mass Ejections | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

Goodbye !, Keras you have proved yourself to be [very humoristic] with your CME being a fire or a flame or that NOAA is a "DISINFORMATION TOOL" put out by Govt agencies...LOL!... no need for you to add more into the cart !!!

The fire that the Prophets talk about will be the same that God used upon Sodom And Gomorrah..../fire and brimstone/....There is no fire and brimstone coming from Heaven mentioned at the opening of the 6 TH SEAL ...but a great earthquake Revelation 6:12-14.
 
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