Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

John Hyperspace · Dec 12, 2016

victorinus said:
there is only one Jesus

Apparently not. What do you believe Paul meant when he warned the virgin about "another Jesus" and the spirit and gospel accompanying this one? 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 why did Paul "fear" that the espoused virgin could be deceived into accepting this "another Jesus" as Eve was deceived by the serpent?

victorinus said:
He is easy to find

This I don't disagree with. Paul seems to be warning about loss of the simplicity in Christ, brought about by "corruption" of this easiness. Any idea what brings corruption to simplicity? Look:

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption <5356>: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage**.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish* with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
*same Greek word as "corrupt"

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage** of corruption <5356> into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

**bondage

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage <1402> under the elements of the world:
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage <1397> again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Remember the "spirit" which Paul warns of receiving through this different gospel, preaching "another Jesus"? "If you receive a different spirit"

Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage <1397>, which is Agar.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage <1397>.

What is the "yoke of bondage"? What are the "elements/rudiments of the world"? What brings corruption to simplicity? Bondage to liberty? Answer that, and you answer, who is Babylon which corrupts the earth by preaching "another Jesus"

The good news is that, as Peter teaches, the "elements of the world" to which men are in bondage, will be destroyed by fire on the Day of the Lord: 2 Peter 3:10: by the preaching of the 144,000 who are the fire of Jacob: Obadiah 1:18: and the saviours on Zion: Obadiah 1:21, Revelation 14:1 at which time this will come to pass: Romans 8:19-21

Douggg · Dec 12, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Each Beast had a different body. The Seven Headed Beast can not have Seven Bodies, thus Jesus let us know that these Beasts of Daniel were a part of thus Seven Headed Beast by including them. I do not get the lack of understanding here, this is simple. Beasts Conquer Israel. WE KNOW VIA HISTORY WHO THEY ARE.....

All the Bodies were co-mingled, the Heads were each different.

The parts of the beast.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The parts of the beast:
head
head
head
head
head
head
head
feet - like a bear - medes persians empire
mouth - like a lion - babylonian empire
body - like a leopard - greek empire

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

" having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns "

That's astronomical phrasing practically lifted right from from the Sumerian creation texts

Douggg · Dec 12, 2016

Hallstone said:
It could be that the seven heads/kings refer to Roman Emperors, the first five being Augustus, Tiberius, Claudius, Caligula, Nero, and then the sixth or "is" being Vespasian (he was the one that was in control of the legions and Jerusalem) and then Jerusalem was destroyed, so the seventh has not appeared and will not until the Empire is revived in a sense "iron mixed with clay" and the Temple is rebuilt, then the seventh is revealed, and then changed into the Eighth.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero - last of the historic Julio-Claudian family dynasty

7. Little horn - end times leader of the end times Roman Empire, the EU. The final Julio-Claudian
..... then becomes the prince who shall come
......then becomes the Antichrist
......then becomes the revealed man of sin. Is killed for his act of claiming to be God. Then brought back to life as...

8. The beast, because he will become possessed by the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit.

Revealing Times · Dec 12, 2016

Straightshot said:
You believe what you want .... you have more to learn

I think my OP is far ahead of anything you have ever offered, SINCE YOU THINK I HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN.

Revealing Times · Dec 12, 2016

Douggg said:
The parts of the beast.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The parts of the beast:
head
head
head
head
head
head
head
feet - like a bear - medes persians empire
mouth - like a lion - babylonian empire
body - like a leopard - greek empire

A BEAST with 7 Heads, which represents each Beast that Conquered Israel. I am finished, I can only give the information, I can' get people who have their own unique understanding to let it go, AND I COULD CARE LESS.....My OP stands on its merit, everything fits.

Douggg · Dec 13, 2016

Revealing Times said:
A BEAST with 7 Heads, which represents each Beast that Conquered Israel. I am finished, I can only give the information, I can' get people who have their own unique understanding to let it go, AND I COULD CARE LESS.....My OP stands on its merit, everything fits.

But three of the kingdoms of Daniel 7 are in the body of the beast, the feet, mouth, body. - not the heads. So there are 7 heads (kingdoms in your interpretation) unaccounted for - not just 3 or 4. Everything doesn't fit in your interpretation because you are disregarding that the 3 kingdoms of Daniel 7 are in the feet, mouth, body - not the heads - in the text.

A Fellow Seeker · Dec 13, 2016

Some of these this have been, and some of these are yet to be. Daniel and Revelations go together.

Ok - Catholics are not going to like this - but the seven hills likely does Refer to Rome. Why else both even mentioning seven hills if it doesn't refer to Rome. But Rome was also the Roman empire and one of the beasts mentioned in Daniel. Therefore the Beast is likely the Roman empire - still a present tense when those verses were written.

Churches are referred to as brides. Jerusalem in the old testament is also called a bride. An unfaithful bride\church is called a harlot. For example - the Bible also refers to Jerusalem as a harlot when the city fell away from God into idol worship. Therefore harlot equals unfaithful church.

It could also be notable that another type of beast (like in Daniel) does not follow - but an unfaithful church is to rule the world.

The harlot is an unfaithful church riding ON the beast - implying coming after and also on top of. Its a church like an empire - seeking after wealth, power, but unfaithful to God. Kings come to her. She rules over the kings of the world and across many waters (oceans/nations/peoples).

The leader of the Catholic Church sits in Rome, and gained much of its power because it was the seat of the Roman empire. It has also repeated but itself, meaning its hierarchy and power, first in ... everything. It is also the only church than can ever claim to have ruled the world - and it came after the Roman empire.

But this passage has not yet played out as there is still a Roman Catholic Church. The prophesy predicts destruction in a single day. In this day and age with nukes, and terrorists wanting to destroy Rome - its not an impossibility. But - if it gets destroyed in a single day (bomb or nature disaster) - then it will meet all the requirements. Until then.... its a guessing game until all the pieces fit.

I don't think anyone today can fully understand the Revelations - any more that anyone understood the old Testament and the purpose of Jesus until after he came.

I am open always open to others view points. To be shown wrong only means I have learned something new and therefore gained more in the end.

Straightshot · Dec 13, 2016

My comment

The 7 hills are mountains representing human kingdoms and the related human king positions over time [Revelation 17:9-10]

To say that 5 of the 7 hills have fallen, one is, and the other is yet to come would make no sense

This symbolism does not represent Rome and the RCC

Revealing Times · Dec 13, 2016

Douggg said:
But three of the kingdoms of Daniel 7 are in the body of the beast, the feet, mouth, body. - not the heads. So there are 7 heads (kingdoms in your interpretation) unaccounted for - not just 3 or 4. Everything doesn't fit in your interpretation because you are disregarding that the 3 kingdoms of Daniel 7 are in the feet, mouth, body - not the heads - in the text.

The heads are the 7 Kingdoms, But Satan is the REAL KING/8th King of the whole Beast we know that. John/Jesus is trying to give you/us a clue here who the Anti-Christ/Beast is. So if there was a Lion Head, Leopard Head, Bear Head etc. etc. we would still have to figure out what the other heads stood for, since Egypt and Assyria was never named as BEASTS....BUT we would also not have the clue they placed here for all to see. Notice the Beast was "Like unto a Leopard" !!! With the feet of a Bear and Mouth of a Lion. This tells us the Anti-Christ arises from Greece. That is why the emphasis is on the LEOPARD...If the Seven Headed Beast had a Head like a Leopard and one like a Bear and one like a Lion, you would have never been given this deep clue.

We over-complicate that which is simple. We are given all the keys wee need to see who the Seven Kings/Kingdoms that conquered Israel are. Its simple.

Revealing Times · Dec 13, 2016

A Fellow Seeker said:
Some of these this have been, and some of these are yet to be. Daniel and Revelations go together.

Ok - Catholics are not going to like this - but the seven hills likely does Refer to Rome. Why else both even mentioning seven hills if it doesn't refer to Rome. But Rome was also the Roman empire and one of the beasts mentioned in Daniel. Therefore the Beast is likely the Roman empire - still a present tense when those verses were written.

Churches are referred to as brides. Jerusalem in the old testament is also called a bride. An unfaithful bride\church is called a harlot. For example - the Bible also refers to Jerusalem as a harlot when the city fell away from God into idol worship. Therefore harlot equals unfaithful church.

It could also be notable that another type of beast (like in Daniel) does not follow - but an unfaithful church is to rule the world.

The harlot is an unfaithful church riding ON the beast - implying coming after and also on top of. Its a church like an empire - seeking after wealth, power, but unfaithful to God. Kings come to her. She rules over the kings of the world and across many waters (oceans/nations/peoples).

The leader of the Catholic Church sits in Rome, and gained much of its power because it was the seat of the Roman empire. It has also repeated but itself, meaning its hierarchy and power, first in ... everything. It is also the only church than can ever claim to have ruled the world - and it came after the Roman empire.

But this passage has not yet played out as there is still a Roman Catholic Church. The prophesy predicts destruction in a single day. In this day and age with nukes, and terrorists wanting to destroy Rome - its not an impossibility. But - if it gets destroyed in a single day (bomb or nature disaster) - then it will meet all the requirements. Until then.... its a guessing game until all the pieces fit.

I don't think anyone today can fully understand the Revelations - any more that anyone understood the old Testament and the purpose of Jesus until after he came.

I am open always open to others view points. To be shown wrong only means I have learned something new and therefore gained more in the end.

Did you read my OP ? I think I made a great case why it is not Seven Hills nor ANY LOCATION.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD

Jesus_is_Saint · Dec 14, 2016

When Christ will come?

Revealing Times · Dec 14, 2016

Jesus_is_Saint said:
When Christ will come?

He will come 3 1/2 years/42 months after the Beast takes over Jerusalem and the Temple. But that is the Second Coming to destroy the Anti-Christ and Rule for 1000 years.

We do not know when he is coming to Rapture us, but it is very close, we understand this by all the signs.

Douggg · Dec 14, 2016

Revealing Times said:
The heads are the 7 Kingdoms, But Satan is the REAL KING/8th King of the whole Beast we know that.

No, Satan is not the whole beast. The whole beast is the end times person, when he becomes possessed by the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit. And in terms of being a Kingdom, the beast is the end times Roman Empire Kingdom.

Satan, the scarlet beast in Revelation 17 is seen by John - as the power behind the beast because in Revelation 17, the end times person had not become the beast in the first century.

And in Revelation 12, the unclean spirit in the bottomless pit had not ascended out, so Satan is seen as the dragon in that chapter.

Revelation 17: scarlet colored beast (Satan pictured). The end times person had not come to power in the first century,

Revelation 12. The full seven years, relevant to Israel.
Revelation 12. great dragon (Satan pictured). The unclean spirit still in the bottomless pit at the beginning of the 7 years.

Revealation 13. The second half of the seven years, after the two witnesses are gone.
Revelation 13. the beast. The end times person has been killed/come back to life, possessed by the unclean spirit.

The end times person, at the end of the 42 months, will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Satan, differently, will be cast into the bottomless pit.

Douggg · Dec 14, 2016

Revealing Times said:
The heads are the 7 Kingdoms,

No, the seven heads are seven mountains where the woman sits, and seven kings associated with that location.

But Satan is the REAL KING/8th King of the whole Beast we know that.

No, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit at Jesus's return. The beast, differently, will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

John/Jesus is trying to give you/us a clue here who the Anti-Christ/Beast is.

He is not saying that the Anti-Christ/Beast is Satan. At Jesus's return, Anti-Christ/Beast > lake of fire.
Satan > the bottomless pit. open and shut case., Satan is not the first beast of Revelation 13.

So if there was a Lion Head, Leopard Head, Bear Head etc. etc. we would still have to figure out what the other heads stood for, since Egypt and Assyria was never named as BEASTS....

But there is no lion head, leopard head, bear head !!!! - that's what I am telling you over and over, according to the text.

BUT we would also not have the clue they placed here for all to see. Notice the Beast was "Like unto a Leopard" !!! With the feet of a Bear and Mouth of a Lion. This tells us the Anti-Christ arises from Greece. That is why the emphasis is on the LEOPARD...If the Seven Headed Beast had a Head like a Leopard and one like a Bear and one like a Lion, you would have never been given this deep clue.

You completely misunderstand why the composite makeup of the beast. It is because Revelation 13 is the second half of the 70th week - and at that point in time, with the 42 months left, the end times Roman Empire will have gained control of the territories once held by the other 3 historic kingdoms.

The only text that would hint that the Antichrist person will possibly originate from Greece is in Daniel 8. Other text, like Daniel 9, indicate the possibility of being from Rome. And possibility is that the person be from one of the smaller EU countries.

Revealing Times · Dec 15, 2016

Douggg said:
No, Satan is not the whole beast. The whole beast is the end times person, when he becomes possessed by the unclean spirit currently in the bottomless pit. And in terms of being a Kingdom, the beast is the end times Roman Empire Kingdom.

I didn't say Satan was the WHOLE BEAST...That is you misreading what I said again. I said Satan is KING OVER THE WHOLE BEAST. In other words he is the 8th King and is over all the Beasts, hence he is of the Seven. Would anyone deny that Satan is the ruler of ALL EVIL ? He is the King of ALL DARKNESS....Etc. etc. etc.

The Beast in Rev. 17 is all the Seven Kingdoms that have conquered Israel, nothing more, nothing less.

Revealing Times · Dec 15, 2016

Douggg said:
No, the seven heads are seven mountains where the woman sits, and seven kings associated with that location.

That is not what the Holy Word says.

Douggg · Dec 15, 2016

Revealing Times said:
I didn't say Satan was the WHOLE BEAST...That is you misreading what I said again. I said Satan is KING OVER THE WHOLE BEAST. In other words he is the 8th King and is over all the Beasts, hence he is of the Seven. Would anyone deny that Satan is the ruler of ALL EVIL ? He is the King of ALL DARKNESS....Etc. etc. etc.

The Beast in Rev. 17 is all the Seven Kingdoms that have conquered Israel, nothing more, nothing less.

Okay, I did misread what you posted about Satan being King over the whole beast.

The 8th king though is not over all the beasts. The 8th king does not come to power until the 7th king rules. Satan is not the 8th king. At Jesus's return, the 8th king - the beast - gets cast alive into the lake of fire. Differently, Satan gets cast into the bottomless pit.

Hallstone · Dec 15, 2016

Douggg said:
Okay, I did misread what you posted about Satan being King over the whole beast.

The 8th king though is not over all the beasts. The 8th king does not come to power until the 7th king rules. Satan is not the 8th king. At Jesus's return, the 8th king - the beast - gets cast alive into the lake of fire. Differently, Satan gets cast into the bottomless pit.

Augustus was the first Emperor, also born Octavius, meaning "The Eighth". First and last, beginning and end, befitting a false Christ, doesn't prove anything, but it is an interesting parallel.

Straightshot · Dec 15, 2016

My comment

There are three different entities:

Satan, Abaddon/Apollyon, and the human little horn [king] of Daniel's visions [Daniel 7; 8; 11:36-45]

Satan is currently at large and he is the angelic king of this present lost world

Abaddon is locked in the abyss .... his 5th kingdom upon the earth fell just before the first century

This angelic prince rules over 7 human kingdoms in the Middle East for Satan

He will be released at the beginning of the coming tribulation to rule again over his 6th and 7th

And when he fully possess the human little horn [the combination of a fallen angel and a human], he will become the 8th king himself ruling over his 7th and final kingdom with 10 other human kings [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

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