Devil will be preparing to devour us and then BAM!

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&Abel

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:)

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Job/Job.htm

Job 2:2 And YHWH is saying to the Satan "where from this thou are coming"? And the Satan is answering YHWH and he is saying "from-to-and-fro/07751 shuwt in Land and from to walk of in her".

Matt 23:15 "Woe to ye scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye are going-about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV <1067> twofold-more of-ye. [Haggai 2:6/Luke 23:31]

I forgot about job

I dunno maybe he has fallen already
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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I forgot about job

I dunno maybe he has fallen already
Job is one of the most fascinating book in the OT/OC and I hope to one day translate it. :)
 
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&Abel

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I agree...its a great look into "why bad things happen to good ppl" and can help us put a positive spin on even the most painful, confusing periods of our life

its also a great example of the power of repentance and the mercy of god

even after Job basically called God out and defied him the second he realized the error of his ways god forgave him and even rebuked job's friends(who played the role of accusor if I remember correctly)

what I wonder is...did job himself have the thoughts that satan was using against him to god? did he say to himself "what if I'm only righteous because everything has gone well for me?" "how would I react if I really had it tough?" and the good in him responded "I would stay strong and continue to live for the lord!" and then tragedy struck and his righteousness was tested and proven to himself(more so then god since god already knows Job better then he knows himself)
 
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HisdaughterJen

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bump to get back to topic....

Rev 12 shows that the devil is planning to devour the Body of Christ at the moment of our birth into glorified bodies but is cast down to the earth instead and goes after the woman who gave us birth and the rest of her offspring.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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It is ridiculous to believe the man child is the church getting rapture. Only a pretrib zealot complete out of touch with the truth of scripture and or reality would believe something like this....Oh yeah, I forgot who I was talking to.
:pray: Never eat an read these posts at the same time. I almost choked from laughing when I read this. Sometimes this site can be so entertaining...and the truth comes out sometimes also lol!!
 
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Bible2

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The symbolic "man child" which will be caught up to
the throne of God in the middle of the coming
tribulation, right before the 3.5-year reign of the
Antichrist (Revelation 12:5-6), represents the 144,000
male-virgins part of the church subsequently seen
before the throne of God (Revelation 14:4-5).

After the 144,000 part of the church is caught up, the
rest of the church still on the earth will have to go
through the 3.5-year reign of the Antichrist. Part
of the church will flee into the wilderness and be
protected (Revelation 12:6,14-16), while another part
of the church will remain in the cities and suffer the
wrath of Satan and the Antichrist (Revelation 12:17,
13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as
some in the church have always had to suffer the wrath
of Satan and evil men (e.g. Revelation 2:10, Acts 7:59).

Those who will suffer the wrath of Satan and the
Antichrist will be the body of Jesus Christ, the
church, for they'll have faith in Jesus Christ
(Revelation 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew
24:9-13), and everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ
is part of his body (Ephesians 4:4-5).

Those in the church who will suffer the wrath of Satan
and the Antichrist will rule and reign with Jesus on the
earth during the coming millennium (Revelation 20:4-6)
along with all the rest of the church (Revelation 5:10,
2:26-29).

---

The symbolic woman in Revelation 12 represents the
church, seen clothed with the symbolic sun of
righteousness (Revelation 12:1, Malachi 4:2), just as
later she's seen symbolically clothed with
righteousness (Revelation 19:8), which comes only
through faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22).

---

There's no dichotomy between the church and the
twelve tribes of Israel; they're one and the same
(Revelation 21:9b,12b). The 144,000 male-virgins part
of the church (Revelation 14:4) is from the twelve
tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4), just as all Jews
in the church remain part of the twelve tribes of
Israel (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36), and all Gentiles in
the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans
11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so
have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel
47:21-23).

This is necessary because the new covenant by which
everyone in the church is saved (Matthew 26:28,
1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15)
is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

---

The great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7:9 are
those in the church who will enter into the coming
tribulation and then die during its first stage
(Revelation 6:4-14). Their death will take them out
of the tribulation (Revelation 7:14), and into heaven
(Revelation 7:15), just as whenever those in the
church die they enter into heaven, to be with Jesus
(Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8).

---

Satan hasn't already been cast from heaven to the
earth for good; that won't happen until the start
of the coming 3.5-year world-reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 12:6-17), when Satan will give all of
his power to the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18,
2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Revelation 12 is part of the "things which must
be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b).

Luke 10:18 could refer to a past, local defeat of
Satan during the ministry of the seventy (Luke 10:17).

Isaiah 14:12 could refer to Lucifer's original fall
into rebellion against God, when he first became
"Satan" or the "Adversary" of God. This could have
happened in the Garden of Eden. The still-unfallen
Lucifer could have been placed by God as the
"covering cherub" over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14).
He could have chafed at this assignment, seeing it
as infinitely beneath his dignity to have to babysit
two mud-creatures (Adam and Eve) on some speck-of-
dust planet in the middle of nowhere, when he
thought himself worthy of ascending back into heaven
and taking rule over all the angels there and being
like God himself in heaven (Isaiah 14:13-14).

Once Lucifer had decided in the Garden of Eden to
rebel against God, and so become Satan, his first
act of defiance against God could have been to
deceive Eve into rebelling against God and eating
of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis
3:13-15).

Isaiah 14:15 could refer to Satan's future
imprisonment in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:3),
at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Revelation
19:11-20:3).

---

The USA, in its corrupt aspects, isn't the entirety
of Mystery Babylon (Revelation chapters 17-18),
because the USA isn't the only entity in which people
buy merchandise from merchants (Revelation 18:11),
nor is the USA responsible for the death of every
martyr on the earth (Revelation 18:24), nor does the
USA reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation
17:18). Mystery Babylon, in its entirety, can only
be all of the corrupt economic, religious, and
political systems on the earth. And throughout
history, for Mystery Babylon has been carried by all
past empires (Revelation 17:7-10).

---

While Obama may turn out to be an antichrist (1 John
2:18), he isn't the Antichrist because the gematrial
number of his name isn't 666 (Revelation 13:17b-18),
and because he isn't from a country the territory of
which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian
(Greek) kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of
Alexander (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The Antichrist could
be an Arab from Tyre, Lebanon (Ezekiel 28:2, cf.
2 Thessalonians 2:4) who will have a name like "Nabil
Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", the gematrial number of
which is 666.

---

Revelation 12:3 is a literal description of Satan
(Revelation 12:9), whereas Revelation 13:1-2, 17:3
is a symbolic picture of empires (Revelation 17:9-10,
Daniel 7:4-7) formed by him in his own image.

Satan has seven literal crowns on his seven literal
heads (Revelation 12:3), whereas the symbolic picture
of Satanic empires has ten symbolic crowns on its
ten symbolic horns (Revelation 13:1, 17:12).

---

The rapture, or the catching up and gathering together
of the church to Jesus at his second coming
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1), won't
occur until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31)
of Revelation chapters 6-18 is all over with. That's
why the marriage doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7.

When Jesus comes to gather together the church he's
going to destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8,
Revelation 19:7,20). The church will have to go through
the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10,
14:12-13, 20:4). That's why Jesus can't come and gather
together the church until sometime after the Antichrist
commits the abomination of desolation (2 Thessalonians
2:1-4, Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31,36).

The rapture is only going to take the church as high
as the clouds to meet Jesus in the air on his way
down to the earth at his second coming (1 Thessalonians
4:15-17). Nowhere does the Bible say that the rapture
of the church at the second coming of Jesus is going
to take the church all the way into the third heaven.

---

The dragon Satan (Revelation 12:9) could have started
out as a dinosaur on the earth. The dinosaurs were on
the earth for millions of years, long enough to have
become highly intelligent by evolution and God's help.
Satan could have been born naturally (or made by God)
a mutant dinosaur with seven heads. He could have
become a faithful servant of God and been granted
immortality, and allowed to enter into heaven before
the destruction of the dinosaurs. In heaven he could
have been given the name of Lucifer, or Morning Star.

Millions of years later, when God made the Garden of
Eden, because Lucifer was originally from earth, God
could have assigned the still-unfallen Lucifer as the
covering cherub over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14) and at
that time given him rule over all of the earth (Luke
4:5-6).

---

The time of Jacob&#8217;s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is the
final attack on the Jews in Jerusalem immediately
before Jesus' second coming saves them (Zechariah
14:2-11).

---

The literal fire-breathing dragon (Job 41:21)
leviathan (Job 41:1) is Satan. He is the literal
leviathan/serpent/dragon with multiple heads (Psalms
74:14, Revelation 12:3,9) who currently lives deep
in the sea (Isaiah 27:1), although he can also move
about on the land (Job 1:7, 1 Peter 5:8). He also
rules the atmosphere (the first heaven) and the outer
space (the second heaven) around the earth (Ephesians
2:2, 6:12), and he's allowed by God to periodically
enter into the third heaven to appear before God and
accuse the saints (Job 1:6-11, 2:1-5, Revelation
12:10b).

---

Satan could be able to breathe fire by the same
spiritual means by which the human two witnesses will
be able to breathe fire during the coming tribulation
(Revelation 11:5).

---

Satan's authority to imprison the souls of dead
believers in Hades was broken at the death of Jesus
(Hebrews 2:14) and his preaching the completion of
the gospel to them in Hades after his resurrection
(1 Peter 3:19, 4:6). Jesus broke through the gates
of Hades (Matthew 16:18, Psalms 107:16) and led all
those who had died in faith (Hebrews 11:13) up into
heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9) to be part of the church in
heaven (Hebrews 12:22-24).

Now Satan no longer has any spiritual power over dead
or living believers (Luke 10:19), although he can
still physically kill living believers (e.g.
Revelation 2:10, 12:17). But now physical death is no
longer a loss to believers, but gain, for it takes
them into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians
1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8). So believers are
victorious over Satan even if he kills them
(Revelation 12:11, Romans 8:36-37).

---

Job is a great book for those in the church who will
live to enter into the coming tribulation, for God
will allow many of them to be physically harmed by
Satan during that time (Revelation 12:17) just as God
allowed innocent Job (Job 2:3) to be physically
harmed by Satan (Job 2:7); and they'll need to have
the patience of Job (James 5:11, Job 2:10) during
that time (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13, cf.
2 Thessalonians 1:4) instead of becoming "offended"
by their tribulation suffering (Matthew 13:21,
24:9-13), and cursing God (Job 2:9, Isaiah 8:21-22).

1 Peter 4:12-13.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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The symbolic "man child" which will be caught up to
the throne of God in the middle of the coming
tribulation, right before the 3.5-year reign of the
Antichrist (Revelation 12:5-6), represents the 144,000
male-virgins part of the church subsequently seen
before the throne of God (Revelation 14:4-5).

Why would you think that the man-child that is snatched to the throne of God is the 144,000 and not the great multitude?

The man-child is the great multitude (the born again church) and here's why:

1. The 144,000 are on earth during the reign of the anti-christ after the devil is cast down. They are sealed and protected by God during that time according to Rev 7 & 9.

2. The man-child is snatched up BEFORE the devil is cast down (or at least AS the devil is cast down), and certainly BEFORE the anti-christ reigns.

3. The man-child is like Jesus, ruling the nations with a rod of iron as Jesus tells us in Rev 2. It is the church. The 144,000 are described as of Israel.

4. The birth pains are the great tribulation as described by Jesus in Matt 24 and confirmed by Rev 6. They happen BEFORE the sun/moon darken and stars fall (in other words, BEFORE the devil is even cast down and the anti-christ reigns).

You see?

PS: Yes, there is a difference between the church and Israel in Revelation.
 
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Bible2

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The symbolic man-child who's caught up to the throne of God mid-
tribulation (Revelation 12:5-6), after the first six trumpets of the
tribulation (Revelation 8:7-9:18) and before the 3.5-year world-reign
of the Antichrist (Revelation 12:6-13:18), represents the 144,000
male-virgins part of the church subsequently seen before the throne
of God (Revelation 14:4-5), and doesn't represent the great-
multitude part of the church which had already entered into heaven
way back in Revelation 7:9, by dying in the events of seals 2,3,4,
and 6 in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6:3-8,12-14), before any
of the trumpets had even started (Revelation chapters 8-9).

---

No scripture says that the 144,000 part of the church is on the
earth during the 3.5-year world-reign of the Antichrist. Instead,
Revelation 14:1-5 shows the 144,000 part of the church before the
throne of God in heaven while others in the church are still on the
earth dying under the Antichrist (Revelation 14:12-13) for refusing
to worship him or his image or take his mark (Revelation 14:9-11, cf.
20:4, 13:7-10).

---

All Revelation 7:3-4 and 9:4 shows is that the 144,000 part of the
church will be protected during the first six trumpets (Revelation
8:7-9:18) which will precede the 3.5-year world-reign of the
Antichrist (shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters
11-14).

---

The fact that the man-child isn't caught up to the throne of God
until right before the 3.5-year world-reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 12:5-13:18) in no way requires that the man-child can't
be the 144,000 part of the church (Revelation 14:5), and must be
the great-multitude part of the church (Revelation 7:9), but requires
that the reverse must be the case.

---

The 144,000 part of the church (Revelation 14:4) remains part of
the church even though it's also called Israel (Revelation 7:4), just
as all Jews in the church remain part of the church even though
they're also called Israel (Romans 11:1), and just as all Gentiles in
the church remain part of the church even though they've been
grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians
3:29). So the 144,000 part of the church/Israel could include both
Jewish and Gentile male-virgin Christians (Revelation 14:4).

---

The man-child is caught up to the throne of God mid-tribulation
(Revelation 12:5-6), long after the temporary darkening of the sun
and reddening of the moon which occurred way back in Revelation
6:12, at one point during only the first stage of the tribulation.

The temporary darkening of both the sun and the moon after the
tribulation (Matthew 24:29) is when Jesus comes with his angels to
gather together (rapture) and marry the entire church (Matthew
24:29-31, Revelation 19:7-21).

---

There's no difference between the church and Israel in Revelation;
instead, the entire church is expressly shown to be Israel (Revelation
21:9b,12b).

Also, the 144,000 of Israel are expressly shown to be believers
(Revelation 14:4), and there are no believers outside of the church
(Ephesians 4:4-5).
 
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