once saved always saved

Luke 8 goes into detail. to put that chapter into my own words, it appears as though it's saying to not be concerned about the pleasures of this world, be honest, have a good heart, keep the WORD, bring forth fruit with patience. It also says that if we cannot understand what this chapter is saying , we could lose understanding which we THINK we have. Is it saying that if we dont understand this that we could lose our salvation?
I agree with you that we are only born again once. After that if we find ourselves on the wrong path, we can still get back on the right path again. LUke 8 points out a Christian who believes but is too concerned with the pleasures of this world. I think what that means is this: We have to submit our will to God's will. We can be saved & go about God's business. Then many years later we may be more interested in what WE want than what God wants. It doesn't have to be a rapid thing. You dont lose love for God I don't think. you just sin, which is a result of not submitting your will to God's will.
Maybe we are talking about something else here. I don't believe that if you are saved it gives you a license to sin without being held accountable. Check "defilement ".
The other theory is "Well if they sinned they were never saved in the first place". Was Solomon never saved? Did Solomon fall?
I think the debate even comes up because we who debate it find it hard to imagine someone who is saved defiling themselves. Are yoy saying that JImmy SWaggart was never saved?
1) Mr. So &So gets truly saved at 16 years of age.
2) MR. So & So is single at the age of 20, and a woman seduces him & he commits fornication.
3) At this point, Mr. So & So is not going to heaven.

A TESTIMONY FROM A WOMAN
CONVERTED OUT OF CATHOLICISM

When I compared these versions, I did notice how these other Bibles lined up with the Roman Catholic Bible. No wonder I was still in confusion! In these modern Bibles, salvation is shown as a "process" which requires good works. All this is brought out by the straining of the tenses in the modern Bibles. Let me show you exactly what I mean.

When you read the following, please notice the straining
of the tenses:

Luke 13:23 (new versions), "Are there few who are being saved?"
KJV, "...be saved."

II Cor. 2:15 (new versions), "are being saved."
KJV, "are saved."

I Cor. 1:18 (new versions), "those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved"
KJV, ...are saved."

Acts 15:19 (new versions) "are turning to God."
KJV, "turned."

Luke 15:32 (new versions), "your brother was dead and has begun to live."
KJV, "is alive."

Acts 2:47 (new versions), "were being saved."
KJV, "should be saved."

2 Cor. 4:3 (new versions), "are perishing."
KJV, "are lost."

I also am reading the KJV. I attend a non denominational church and am born again, and I am not Catholic. The scriptures I quoted were KJV. I guess you don't want to answer the postings I made.

Since your saved and a lady I might, what were your questions?

SEE the questions posed on this page posting # 181. Also as to the last few sentences, do you think Mr. So & SO is going to heaven even though the Bible clearly states that a fornicator will not enter the gates of heaven?
See page 9(previous oage this thread posting # 177 questions posed. (defilement, LUke 8, SOlomon).

No , yes , no, I'm only sure of one person that is going to Heaven for sure. Everyone else is between them and God.

Other page, yes your messed up.
Why do you want so bad to 'think' you can lose your salvation?

Remember every religious lie and heresey in this age is the truth -MISPLACED.
I think your having a little small problem with rightly dividing the word of God. Your taking verses not intended for the age of grace(don't worry your not alone) and trying to apply them to a saved blood washed believer. .


Remember, the Bible is all for us but not all to us.
In the age of grace in which we are in, Salvation is through faith in The Lord Jesus Christ and can not be lost.

If you really want help I'll try, if not no big deal, someone else might get a blessing out of reading this.

Greetings All,

I too would have to go along with the Phillipians 2:12 school of thought. The idea being that while recieving the gift is important, one must percevere to the end. The best analogy I can come up with is that of being the anchor on a relay team, the gift of salvation being the baton, once you recieve the hand off you're really a member of the team. But you still have to give all you have, your best, till you cross the finish line.

The other point I make with anyone who asks, is the final decision is God's, not mine. For me to say I am saved would be nothing short of presumption.
In Christ
Vincent

Originally posted by Vijaykyu
Greetings All,

I too would have to go along with the Phillipians 2:12 school of thought. The idea being that while recieving the gift is important, one must percevere to the end. The best analogy I can come up with is that of being the anchor on a relay team, the gift of salvation being the baton, once you recieve the hand off you're really a member of the team. But you still have to give all you have, your best, till you cross the finish line.

The other point I make with anyone who asks, is the final decision is God's, not mine. For me to say I am saved would be nothing short of presumption.
In Christ
Vincent

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vijaykyu,

The Bible tells us who are saved and who are not. In John 3:18, Jesus said that he who BELIEVES in him is NOT condemned.

The Bible also tells us that there is NOW no condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1).

Who are those who BELIEVE in Jesus and are now IN Christ Jesus?

Col. 1:13-14 tells us God delivers His people from the power of darkness and translates (transfers) them INTO the KINGDOM of His son, IN WHOM there is redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins.

This KINGDOM is the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the TRUE church of Christ in these last days. There is NOW no condemnation for those who are IN Christ or INSIDE the BODY of Christ. That BODY is the Iglesia Ni Cristo.

Edpobre

Originally posted by Vijaykyu
Greetings All,

I too would have to go along with the Phillipians 2:12 school of thought. The idea being that while recieving the gift is important, one must percevere to the end.

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Then it sounds like persevering is a work on our part which would negate grace. I believe we can only persevere because of the Holy Spirit within us who powers us to persevere. I can't understand how people cannot believe in eternal security, that is a scary way to live your life in my opinion. What if you sinned at the moment you died? Would you still go to heaven since you weren't 'abiding' at that moment? Raises some serious questions doesn't it?

God Bless

Read romans 11:28-30. The verse is clearly talking abot Israel, but a likeness comparison is being made in which it says God's call to both Israel and the church is irrevocable.

So let's see...
A few of you seem to be saying that if you're a Christian and then you sin, that makes you not a Christian anymore. What?! Doesn't that sort of negate the idea of grace?
Here's what I think:
You become a Christian through putting your trust in Jesus. That's it. From then on you're a Christian. No debate about it.
But say you sin again. It's a problem, yes. And yes, you need to repent and get right with God about it. But you're still saved, even when you are sinning. You've just got problems.
In regards to the original question, of whether you can stop being a Christian, I'd say yes, you can. But not through negligence. The whole thing of becoming a Christian is submitting your life to God, and I think you can stop being a Christian if you consciously TAKE YOUR LIFE BACK. If you actually decide not to follow Jesus anymore, you're not a Christian. But I think you can be a Christian even if you do sin occasionally. That's called being a fallen human being.

I agree with you 100% Dierd. Very well put. Our salvation is secure according to the word of God. He never takes it back. We still have free will or liberty even though we have eternal salvation. It is US who can decide not to be a Christian anymore. Some people do.
We can't ignore the verses which say a fornicator or idolater will not enter heaven. Saved people do sin. Other folks claim that saved people do not sin.
Actually most of us agree, the label of "once saved always saved" is where I find fault. I don't believe that a saved person can consciously , continually, intentionally sin and have any confidence that they are
still saved. THat;s when they CHOSE not God's will.

I've been considering the once saved always saved theory here lately as well. I wonder why Paul would write the following if we are indeed saved for good without a doubt?

Phi 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

- why would we still be working out our own salvation if we are already saved?

Phi 3:11 "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."
Phi 3:12 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. "

- If we've already attained to the resurrection then why is Paul saying "If by any means I (might) attain"

Its not 'the once saved always saved theory',
Its the Eternal Life fact.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Sorry if I sounded like I was arguing my point. I was just wondering why Paul wrote these passages and what is their meaning? Can you expound on these passages that I've given, please?

I've been considering the once saved always saved theory here lately as well. I wonder why Paul would write the following if we are indeed saved for good without a doubt?

Phi 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

- why would we still be working out our own salvation if we are already saved?

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This verse does not say that we should still be doing anything. Be careful not to read into scripture, meaning that isn't there.

Also, what this verse is talking about is this: Paul was concerned for the church in Philippi. He was telling them that while it is true that we should promote the common salvation, it shuld not be done so at the expense of our own. He was warning that they should first concentrate on thier own salvation, making thier own life right with God. They were neglecting themselves in an effort to expand the church. He was talling them to be "working out thier own salvation", or to be mindful of themselves first, and that through it, thewy will be better witnesses for Chrsit. He was telling them that it is not for us to judge others for we have enough as it is to look out for ourselves.

The work "work out" in the greek was "katergazomai" which is "to accomplish or "to achieve". W emust be dilignet, as followers of Chrsit, to forst do for ourselves what He came to do: save us. If we do not hve the light of Christ in us, then how will others see him through us?

Phi 3:11 "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."
Phi 3:12 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. "

- If we've already attained to the resurrection then why is Paul saying "If by any means I (might) attain"

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Here Paul is not saying that he must again attain what he already had.. but rather, he is writing this i a future tense, as looking forward to the day when his salvation will be fullfilled.

The word he uses for "Resurrection here is "exanastasis" which signifies the furure event of a christian when that christian will rise up, resurrected in Chrsit as a new creature to be with him in heaven.

Also, the "If" can throw some off as to make thme think that Paul was saying his salvation was conditionary in some way.

Actually that is not the correct meaning and usage of the word if there. The greek word is "ei pos", which is used as a conjuction, in this case, to the next verse. the meaning is "if indeed, since". What paul is saying is that it isn;t by 1 of any number of means or ways that salvation can by attained, but rather there only one way, through Chrsit, as we see in the next verse.

People just love leaving out verses...Just look at the next verse..Who is doing the working? Not you "for is is GOD WHO WORKS IN YOU to will and to act according to his good purpose. This is an encouragement. That fear is not a fear you will loose something precious. It is the resepectful fear. I want to do a good job because God is Holy and my master.

If you are a Christian, then you should always be conscious of the fact that YOU are not your body; you are INSIDE your body. Your soul has already been redeemed, but you are still waiting for the redemption of your body (Rom. 8:23). Your body is no good, for it is still under the law of sin and death. But remember, your SOUL has been made perfect by the Blood of Christ.

Please refer back to post #174, and answer a couple of questions:

If John didn't believe that salvation could be forsaken, then why 2Jn1:8-9 (read with 1Jn5:12)?

If James didn't believe that salvation could be forsaken, then why James 5:19-20? (You can't say "THEY WERE NEVER SAVED", contectually, yestheywere. You can't say "they weren't really lost", definitively {"Thanatos-physical death with implication of eternity in Hell"} they absolutely were...)

If Paul didn't believe that salvation could be forsaken, then why Col1:23? You do not think he's saying, "continuing is a CHOICE"?

If Peter didn't believe that salvation could be forsaken, then why 2:2:9-11? Is not the "provision of the EISODOS-entrance/gate of Heaven", mutually exclusive (will not be provided in any other way"? "Diligence to make certain about His calling and choosing of us"?

These are just a few of the verses that speak of "responsible grace". You cannot just hold to a couple of "predestination" or "eternal security" verses, while ignoring other verses such as these...

Ignored verses begin to feel lonely and dejected...

Your right - Ben, those verses you listed must be for a different age(TIME and CIRCUMSTANCE), not a church age child of God, but, like the Jew in the Millinium or in the tribulation.

All the Bible is for us but not all is TO us. Unless we rightly divide the words of truth we can make the Bible mean anything we want it to.

The ghastly truth is that if I "had a mind to do it" (Southern, circa 1800), I could preach from any pulpit in America (eight nights in a row), proving, conclusively, from the New Testament, that:

1. A Christian can lose salvation.
2. A Christian cannot lose salvation.
3. Hell is the grave.
4. Hell is NOT the grave.
5. You should worship God on Friday-Saturday.
6. You should worship God on Sunday.
7. Water baptism is essential for salvation.
8. Water baptism is NOT essential for salvation.
No sweat; "piece-a-cake."

But what kind of a Book could produce a mess like that? You couldn't do that if you used any other copy of any other so-called "sacred scripture" of any other "faith" from any religious group on this earth. What a strange Book for a Book that professes to be the truth, the whole truth, and "nothing but the truth"!
The Book turns out to be a "twoedged sword" (Heb. 4:12-13), not a single-bladed pocket knife. Those who "stumble at the word" (see 1 Pet. 2:8), after being exposed to it (Matt. 13:18-23; Isa. 6:9-10; John 12:37), outnumber the saved sinners better than a hundred to one in any generation.

There are today, in the world, more than 9,000,000 professing Christians who do not know where they are going when they die because they believe that "eternal life" is temporary eternal life that you can lose before you die. To their credit, I must confess that they can quote more than 100 verses in the New Testament to prove this gross perversion of the "good news" ("the gospel," 1 Cor. 15:1-4). I know where every verse is (in the New Testament) that they quote. I could prove exactly what they teach from the Scriptures, and it would still be a LIE from start to finish.