Once saved always saved.Bible verses for and against.

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Yes perfect.

Then have can salvation be lost?

you are a OSAS proponent

I have no idea what that is

I believe one must repent from unbelief to belief in order to recieve His Holy Spirit.

We are spiritually dead, unable to save ourselfs. Some people believe we are drowning in a ocean, God throws a life guard and it is up to us to grab it. But we are dead at the bottom of the ocean, and God must rescue us and give us life.

Then one must stay the course in order to remain in Him.

If we remain in Him, is because God is holding onto us. None of us can perfectly obey God. We only remain in faith by His power.

Look, either Christ took the punishment for your sins on the cross, or you will pay for your sin for eternity. Either Christ was judged in your place, or you will be judged. How could you then lose your salvation if Christ bought you with His own blood? He does not save partially. God doesn't judge anyone twice. If Christ paid for all your sins in full, then how can one go to hell, based on what when there is no sin as Christ paid for it in full?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Then have can salvation be lost?



I have no idea what that is

We are spiritually dead, unable to save ourselfs. Some people believe we are drowning in a ocean, God throws a life guard and it is up to us to grab it. But we are dead at the bottom of the ocean, and God must rescue us and give us life.

If we remain in Him, is because God is holding onto us. None of us can perfectly obey God. We only remain in faith by His power.

Look, either Christ took the punishment for your sins on the cross, or you will pay for your sin for eternity. Either Christ was judged in your place, or you will be judged. How could you then lose your salvation if Christ bought you with His own blood? He does not save partially. God doesn't judge anyone twice. If Christ paid for all your sins in full, then how can one go to hell, based on what when there is no sin as Christ paid for it in full?

Thanks for sharing !
Be blessed.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Thanks for sharing !
Be blessed.

God bless you too.
May you be a woman according to God's heart.

 

[Cassian]

The Lord said salvation cannot be lost. John 6 39 'And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.' The Lord said He will not lose one, therefore we can be assured of our salvation.

John 6:39 is not referencing the salvation of individuals but what Christ acomplished by His death/resurrection. It corresponds with other texts such as Col 1:19-20 and I Cor 15:21-22 as several others.
You should have added the next verse (40) since it does refer to individual believers. Individual salvation is not static and depends on the believers faithfulness.

 

[Aussie Pete]

We'd be here a long time listing all the verses against. The ones in favor of that idea are non-existent. Probably thye most stark example of those against is found in Hebrews regarding falling away from the faith:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

There are others as well, including the warning of being cut off:

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jesus himself said "he who endures to the end shall be saved", see Matt 10:22. The meaning is that no one is saved until the end. The end will look like Matthew 25:31-46. It gives example of what is required of us after enter into salvation.

Wrong. You do not know what salvation means. A person who is born again cannot be un-born again. Eternal life is just that, eternal. You also ignore the power of God to keep those who are His.

There are two salvations. The world salvation has become A Christian buzz word meaning going to heaven when you die. This is a shallow definition that leads to shallow (parable of the sower) "conversions" which lead nowhere. Then people say, "see, it is possible to lose your salvation". No, that person was not saved in the first place.

To be born again is to have a new spirit which is eternal. The Christian is instantly adopted into God's family and Jesus will never turn that person away.

There is another aspect to salvation. A better word is deliverance. This is the "salvation of the soul". Both Peter and James mention this. It is not the same as being born again. The soul is not the spirit. It is the organ of thought, emotion and choice. The natural life of the soul is what Adam had when he was created. It was sufficient to enable Adam to choose either God's way or Satan's way. We know that Adam's choice was catastrophic.

Adam died spiritually and his natural life was corrupted by Satan's nature. Yet he also retained the image of God to a degree. The image of God was marred by sin. When someone is born again, his natural life remains. God intends for the Life of Christ to replace the natural life that we inherit from Adam. This is what Jesus meant when He said, "He who seeks to save his life will lose it".

This is not eternal separation from God. It is referring to the loss of the natural life in the soul that will occur when our mortal bodies are replaced with the spiritual body. In this lifetime, we have the opportunity to deny self (the natural life) and choose Jesus to live in place of what we were in Adam.

This sounds a bit academic perhaps. However, God will put His finger on what is most precious to us and ask us to give it up. Some people, like the rich young ruler, have too much to lose in their own estimation. So they keep a temporal blessing and miss out on the eternal blessing that God has in store. We get one life to live on this earth. It sets us up for eternity. It gives us our place in the Kingdom of God. "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose".

 

[HTacianas]

Wrong. You do not know what salvation means. A person who is born again cannot be un-born again. Eternal life is just that, eternal. You also ignore the power of God to keep those who are His.

There are two salvations. The world salvation has become A Christian buzz word meaning going to heaven when you die. This is a shallow definition that leads to shallow (parable of the sower) "conversions" which lead nowhere. Then people say, "see, it is possible to lose your salvation". No, that person was not saved in the first place.

To be born again is to have a new spirit which is eternal. The Christian is instantly adopted into God's family and Jesus will never turn that person away.

There is another aspect to salvation. A better word is deliverance. This is the "salvation of the soul". Both Peter and James mention this. It is not the same as being born again. The soul is not the spirit. It is the organ of thought, emotion and choice. The natural life of the soul is what Adam had when he was created. It was sufficient to enable Adam to choose either God's way or Satan's way. We know that Adam's choice was catastrophic.

Adam died spiritually and his natural life was corrupted by Satan's nature. Yet he also retained the image of God to a degree. The image of God was marred by sin. When someone is born again, his natural life remains. God intends for the Life of Christ to replace the natural life that we inherit from Adam. This is what Jesus meant when He said, "He who seeks to save his life will lose it".

This is not eternal separation from God. It is referring to the loss of the natural life in the soul that will occur when our mortal bodies are replaced with the spiritual body. In this lifetime, we have the opportunity to deny self (the natural life) and choose Jesus to live in place of what we were in Adam.

This sounds a bit academic perhaps. However, God will put His finger on what is most precious to us and ask us to give it up. Some people, like the rich young ruler, have too much to lose in their own estimation. So they keep a temporal blessing and miss out on the eternal blessing that God has in store. We get one life to live on this earth. It sets us up for eternity. It gives us our place in the Kingdom of God. "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose".

Yes, I know what salvation means. And salvation is a lifelong process, as Jesus said, "he who endures to the end shall be saved", Matt 10:22, Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13. How can someone need to endure to the end to be saved if one is already saved?

And as to 'he who seeks to save his life will lose it" refers to those who fall away from eternal life in order to save their own life here on earth. Mostly due to threat of death. It happened throughout the first few hundred years of the Church. That was the cause for the warning of drinking the wrath of God for accepting the mark of the beast, see Rev 14:9-10.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

John 6:39 is not referencing the salvation of individuals but what Christ acomplished by His death/resurrection. It corresponds with other texts such as Col 1:19-20 and I Cor 15:21-22 as several others.
You should have added the next verse (40) since it does refer to individual believers. Individual salvation is not static and depends on the believers faithfulness.

Explain what Jesus done on the cross.

Either He purchased you with His blood, or He did not. If He purchased you, then how can you lose your salvation?

Either He paid for your sins, or you will pay for them for eternity. If He paid for your sins, what sins you will be judged on?

If Christ paid for your sins, He was judged in your place (and because He was sinless, the penalty of sin was not valid, therefore He defeated death) and you passed from judgement to life. You have been judged in Christ, God is not going to judge your sins as they have been judged already.

If Christ died for you on the cross, He drank the cup of God’s wrath, He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ. So how can you lose your salvation and suffer from God's wrath?

I see many believers here that claim that you can lose your salvation, and I see hundreds of verses, but none of you mention the cross and what happened there. Saying salvation can be lost is deneying the perfect work of Christ on the cross.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Once saved always saved.Bible verses for and against. Can you list all the verses that come to mind?

Here are a few, that show a Christian can turn away from God. There are more but I am not sure exactly where to find them.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


Heb 10:26-29 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?


2Pe 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

 

[Cassian]

Explain what Jesus done on the cross.

Either He purchased you with His blood, or He did not. If He purchased you, then how can you lose your salvation?

Either He paid for your sins, or you will pay for them for eternity. If He paid for your sins, what sins you will be judged on?

If Christ paid for your sins, He was judged in your place (and because He was sinless, the penalty of sin was not valid, therefore He defeated death) and you passed from judgement to life. You have been judged in Christ, God is not going to judge your sins as they have been judged already.

If Christ died for you on the cross, He drank the cup of God’s wrath, He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ. So how can you lose your salvation and suffer from God's wrath?

I see many believers here that claim that you can lose your salvation, and I see hundreds of verses, but none of you mention the cross and what happened there. Saying salvation can be lost is denying the perfect work of Christ on the cross.

Christ paid the penalty for sin for everyone. I John 2:2, What Christ did for mankind cannot be changed, or even denied by man. It is an historical fact. Of my own sins, or any Christians sins they are not automatically forgiven. Because Christ did something. One must repent and believe before forgiveness is given. However, our existence as believers in this world is a continuous, consistent journey of faithfulness. Your personal salvation is not acquired until you pass from this life. If one is faithful it is held as an inheritance I Pet 1:3-5.

Relative to the topic of this thread, one can surely lose their personal salvation, there are many examples in scripture that confirms this. Your issue is that the Cross/resurrection is for everyone and cannot be lost, but our personal salvation depends on one's own acceptance and faithfulness and can be lost.

 

[Lukaris]

Faith is living in the Lord by keeping His commandments. The Lord refers to this as abiding in Him in John 15:4-10. St. Paul refers to the same thing in relation to the Lord’s cross in Colossians 1:10-23.

We probably should not make assumptions of anyone’s salvation but just explain the Lord’s salvation of us ( for ex. John 3:16-21) and know this is what we live out our lives in ( see Philippians 2:10-16, Philippians 3:8-16 etc.).

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yes, I know what salvation means. And salvation is a lifelong process, as Jesus said, "he who endures to the end shall be saved", Matt 10:22, Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13. How can someone need to endure to the end to be saved if one is already saved?

And as to 'he who seeks to save his life will lose it" refers to those who fall away from eternal life in order to save their own life here on earth. Mostly due to threat of death. It happened throughout the first few hundred years of the Church. That was the cause for the warning of drinking the wrath of God for accepting the mark of the beast, see Rev 14:9-10.

Nope. You are wrong. Read the rest of God's word instead of only the verses that suit you. And the life that is lost is the life that is in the soul, not the eternal life that is in the spirit. You've entirely missed the point of what I said about two salvations.

The word translated life or soul is psuche. We get our word psychology from it. It is the life that Adam had when God created him. The life that God intended for Adam is spiritual life. Adam had a spirit, but it was empty. This is why there was the tree of Life in Eden. God warned Adam that he would surely die if he ate from the tree of knowledge. Adam rejected God's warning and chose Satan's way instead.

Adam did not die physically. He could still think, feel and choose. So his death was spiritual. The new life that we have in Christ is spiritual also.God's intent has not changed. He still wants man to freely choose to live from his spirit man and not from the natural life of the soul. Spiritual truth is incomprehensible to the natural life of the soul.

The earliest version of the NASB translates psuche "soul-life". This is the best rendition of the word. The soul is the organ of expression. Either we are expressing the natural life, which is our thoughts, feelings, opinions, preconceived notions and prejudice or we are expressing the content of our spirit man. The spirit man is the real person and where Christ is pleased to dwell in the born again believer. The Christian life is not a changed life. It is an exchanged life, the new life in the Spirit for the old life that we inherited from Adam. This is a process that takes a lifetime.

No doubt you are familiar with the member of the church of Corinth who was living in gross sin, sleeping with his father's wife. The Corinthian church expelled the man as ordered by Paul. The man repented and Paul told them to restore him to fellowship. Was that man saved before he sinned? He was a member of the church and Paul treated the man as a brother in Christ. Was he unsaved when he was ejected from the fellowship? Was he saved again when he was restored? Are people condemned to hell one moment and then born again again the next? Either God's salvation is perfect and complete ("It is finished!") or it is incomplete and dependent on man to make it work.

Eternal life is eternal. The life of Christ is indestructible (Hebrews 7:16). So indeed, once saved always saved.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Christ paid the penalty for sin for everyone

No. If He paid for everyone's sin, we would all go to Heaven. But we know many will perrish in hell.
Christ only paid for the sins of all the true believers.

Yes the Bible says that we need to overcome, but we only overcome because He is holding on to us, because we are weak, so weak that if God showed us how weak we are, we would be on knees 24/7.

Yes the Bible says we have to hold onto faith and finish the race, but we can only do that when our faith is true, when we are born of the Spirit, because once again, without the Holy Spirit, our faith is dead.

If you could lose your salvation, you would.

Nevertheless I'm going to hold onto Christ, and completely depend on Him for my walk. I will only overcome, because of Christ's strength and not my own.

 

[Bones49]

Judas never lost his salvation. He never was a believer in the first place, he was faking it (knowingly or not).

Not everyone who follows Jesus, truly follows Him, only those who are in Him.

If you believe salvation can be lost, you are saying God has not done enough for you on the cross. If he has not done enough to wash away your sin, then your sin remains.

Jesus' sacrifice was perfect, not imperfect or partial, because that would be not enough. Why do people think they can add anything to Jesus' cross? What do you want to add? If salvation could be lost, we would have lost it all already.

Explain Hebrews 6:4.

 

[Bones49]

By saying, "Those whom You gave Me, I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition" (John 17:12), is Jesus saying that He lost someone that He was expected to keep or should have kept?
No, "gave" does not connote the need to 'keep.'

"SON OF PERDITION" - Who Is He And Why Is He Called That?
"SON OF PERDITION" - Who Is He And Why Is He Called That?

You missed the point. Someone said that Judas was never 'saved' in the first place, so doesn't count. Therefore, if he was never 'saved', then he wasn't part of the group whom God gave him, and also he couldn't be lost (because he was never found). Therefore, Judas must have been counted as those who were found.

 

[Bones49]

No. If He paid for everyone's sin, we would all go to Heaven. But we know many will perrish in hell.
Christ only paid for the sins of all the true believers.

Yes the Bible says that we need to overcome, but we only overcome because He is holding on to us, because we are weak, so weak that if God showed us how weak we are, we would be on knees 24/7.

Yes the Bible says we have to hold onto faith and finish the race, but we can only do that when our faith is true, when we are born of the Spirit, because once again, without the Holy Spirit, our faith is dead.

If you could lose your salvation, you would.

Nevertheless I'm going to hold onto Christ, and completely depend on Him for my walk. I will only overcome, because of Christ's strength and not my own.

For God so loved the world that he gave his son, that whosoever should believe would inherit eternal life.

Doesn't sound like he died for a select few. Have you ever heard of the idea of free will. I could go into the street and offer a gift to everyone I meet, not everyone would take it, but it doesn't mean that I didn't offer it to them. Me offering something to everyone doesn't mean that everyone will take it.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Explain Hebrews 6:4.

Hebrews 6 4-6 is about unbelieving 'Christians' who received the gospel, have some understanding of it, but they have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior. One thing is to understand the gospel another being regenarated of the Holy Spirit.

Think about the pharisees in Jesus' time. They understood the scripture, but they never truly believed.
Or Judas...he knew Jesus is God (and so do the demons) but never placed his faith in Jesus as his Savior. Judas and every unbeliving 'Christian' have all been exposed to gospel, but they never exercised genuine faith.

I can for example read the gospel, memorise it, but that does not make me a believer.

If you look at the parable of sower, the people in Hebrews 6 4-6 would be the seed who fell in rocky ground, or the seeds who fell among thorns. So it's about people who tasted the truth, but they don't have genuine faith, thus they fall away.

 

[Cassian]

No. If He paid for everyone's sin, we would all go to Heaven. But we know many will perrish in hell.
Christ only paid for the sins of all the true believers.

So you disagree with scripture? Question? Did His blood have the believers names flowing in it. He died one death for all. It is up to man to accept His forgiveness.

Yes the Bible says that we need to overcome, but we only overcome because He is holding on to us, because we are weak, so weak that if God showed us how weak we are, we would be on knees 24/7.

He holds on so long as you remain faithful. Man can surely quench the Spirit, otherwise we would not have been warned of its possibility.

Yes the Bible says we have to hold onto faith and finish the race, but we can only do that when our faith is true, when we are born of the Spirit, because once again, without the Holy Spirit, our faith is dead.

Your first sentence belies your own belief. If the Spirit is holding you and He will not let you go, why are you holding onto faith?

If you could lose your salvation, you would.

Nevertheless I'm going to hold onto Christ, and completely depend on Him for my walk. I will only overcome, because of Christ's strength and not my own.

Again, you contradict yourself. Why are you holding on if the holding is all of Christ?

 

[Bones49]

Hebrews 6 4-6 is about unbelieving 'Christians' who received the gospel, have some understanding of it, but they have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior. One thing is to understand the gospel another being regenarated of the Holy Spirit.

Think about the pharisees in Jesus' time. They understood the scripture, but they never truly believed.
Or Judas...he knew Jesus is God (and so do the demons) but never placed his faith in Jesus as his Savior. Judas and every unbeliving 'Christian' have all been exposed to gospel, but they never exercised genuine faith.

I can for example read the gospel, memorise it, but that does not make me a believer.

If you look at the parable of sower, the people in Hebrews 6 4-6 would be the seed who fell in rocky ground, or the seeds who fell among thorns. So it's about people who tasted the truth, but they don't have genuine faith, thus they fall away.

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭ESV‬‬
[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

it says the have shared in the hily spirit. what does this mean if it doesnt mean hving been regenerated?
what does it mean by enlightened if never plced their faith in Christ?
How could they hve tasted the heavenly gift if they never truly believed?
How can one who is not genuinely converted fll away.
also if they were never truly christians why then is it so impossibly difficult for them them to 'return' to the faith?

it seems to me that the author is taking great pains to embed in the readers mind that these people are in fact true genuine believes and have advanced to maturity of faith. if you look at the context the author seems to be wrning the hevrews who are still immature in faith when they should be teachers, that they risk falling away from the faith if they dont start moving on toward maturity and this examole along with the next serve to highlight their fate if they dont start taking their faith seriously.

 

[Aussie Pete]

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭ESV‬‬
[4] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt

it says the have shared in the hily spirit. what does this mean if it doesnt mean hving been regenerated?
what does it mean by enlightened if never plced their faith in Christ?
How could they hve tasted the heavenly gift if they never truly believed?
How can one who is not genuinely converted fll away.
also if they were never truly christians why then is it so impossibly difficult for them them to 'return' to the faith?

it seems to me that the author is taking great pains to embed in the readers mind that these people are in fact true genuine believes and have advanced to maturity of faith. if you look at the context the author seems to be wrning the hevrews who are still immature in faith when they should be teachers, that they risk falling away from the faith if they dont start moving on toward maturity and this examole along with the next serve to highlight their fate if they dont start taking their faith seriously.

How can eternal life not be eternal? Does a Christian who sins die spiritually then gets born again again when they confess their sin? The life of Christ is indestructible.

The gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom, not just "go to heaven when you die". It is certainly possible to miss out on the blessings of the Kingdom of God. Evangelism has for too long overlooked the point of salvation. We are meant to be seeking the Kingdom of God as number one priority. There will be a large number of Christians who will be saved but uninvolved in God's kingdom.

The gospel that Jesus commanded us to preach is the gospel of the kingdom. Unless a person is born again, he cannot even see the Kingdom of God. Once we are born again, the Kingdom should be our priority. I've been saved 50 years. In my experience, churches preach more or less, "quit sinning (or don't get caught), pay your tithes and attend meetings. You'll do fine." Except that is not Kingdom living.

There is a place in Christ called the knowledge of the truth. Many Christians are saved but have not come to the knowledge of the Truth. We know when we come to that place. It's hard to describe, but we know in our hearts what it is when the Lord gets us there. I remember the moment of realisation that I received about 15 years ago. It was a long time coming but that's because I was prone to analysing everything instead of simply accepting God's word at face value. Some Christians come to this wonderful knowledge early in their Christian lives. Others never get there. All believer should seek this knowledge. It is life changing as surely as is being born again in the first place.

 

[tdidymas]

John 6:39 is not referencing the salvation of individuals but what Christ acomplished by His death/resurrection. It corresponds with other texts such as Col 1:19-20 and I Cor 15:21-22 as several others.
You should have added the next verse (40) since it does refer to individual believers. Individual salvation is not static and depends on the believers faithfulness.

It says ALL, which means ALL individuals, losing NONE of them. It implies that once a person begins trusting in Christ, they can't stop trusting Christ, if indeed they have become a new creation. If being "saved" merely means believing with the natural thoughts, then salvation is surely precarious. But if believing in Jesus transcends natural human thoughts and goes deep into the spirit realm, then faith can't be lost, because we are kept by the power of God, according to 1 Pet. 1:5. The power of God drives the faith, not the reverse.

So if a person appears to lose faith because of dementia or Alzheimer's disease, they're still saved, if they were saved previously. If you're worried that the idea of salvation being a free gift will lead to antinomianism, that's a wrong thought, because faith includes trusting Jesus for salvation from sin as well as salvation from God's wrath. If a person gets the idea that Jesus saves from hell but not from sin, they've got the wrong idea. The true gospel is explained by Jesus' words "My sheep hear My voice and follow Me."