Originally posted by Ben johnson
Thanx for the reply.
So, in Romans 8:5-9, where it says: "For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; ...however, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." In your belief, there is a person who lives with his mind-set-on-the-flesh, but still has God's Spirit in Him. But is unable to live in the Spirit because of ignorance.
Will that person be able to learn the things of God? Will "He who began a good work in them bring it to completion"?
What is the difference between a "Christian" whose mind is set on the flesh, and a non-Christian whose mind is set on the flesh?
Thanx again for your patience with me.
Ben,
First of all, in Hebrews 5, it is evident that "babes desire milk", here let me post the passage;
Heb 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and
are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat .
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
I will try to draw the principle out slowly, careful to cover what you ask.
First thing we understand is, that this letter was written to all Christians, particularly to them who where of the nation of Israel.
He refers to them as babes, not teachers, because they are unskilled in the use of the word of righteousness.
Young chrisitians, (and I am refering to those who are babes in Christ) who have not "excercised their sense" to discern good from evil, are those that are immature spiritually, and are unable to clearly understand what the spirit is trying to teach them (you are a firm believer in "free will"), so you understand that these can be distracted or even deceived easily, because they are babes easy to overwhelm with things they do not understand.
Just like a natural born baby must be taught, to speak, so that he may communicate with his father, (so this babe needs to learn to speak to his heavenly father in prayer and supplication), he must be taught to obey the Word of his father (which he dispised before, in the case of Gods child), he must be taught how to walk and behave himself so that he can please his father, and after this training he just naturaly lives his life pleasing his father, because he has been taught, from his youth, and he desires not to depart from this way, which he has learned, from his father.
Paul admonishes all who know the Lord to "...not grieve the Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph 4:30)
In the next passage, Heb 6, is where he goes on to explain, that these who grieve the Spirit of God, CAN"T lose the position of Heir (which is the passage of which 40 some ought pages have been posted here on this thread is about), because it would be impossible to restore them gain to repentance.
Nevertheless, these because, they're unable to grasp scripture,(which is the evidence that they are babes), have become like babes who need milk again, which is for them like; establishing the first principles of the word of GOD,
In simpler words they are anemic, they are unable to discern good from evil, they are unable to please God, because they don't know how to, they have ceased from growing, they have become stunted in their growth and have no teeth to
move unto solid food (the meat of the Word of God).
They go about trying to ;
"...establish again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
"And this they would do, if God permitted it. Heb 6:1-3
I trust that you can see this, how God puts up with all who are babes in Christ, even those who are not so infantile in the Lord.
If he didn't put up with them and caused to lose (what they can't because of His own Promise sealed with an Oath) their eternal life, which he gave them freely, he would in affect be killing his own children.
He has said "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
The Judge of all the earth shall do what is right;
If God is long suffering and patient with the heathen, how much more patient is he with his children;
His desire is that all his children come to maturity; some get there faster than others, some continue wndering in their wayward backsliden ways until God deals with them, or takes them home, so that his name is no more blasphemed among the heathen.
Notice; thats why he gives apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers for the perfecting of his people;
Eph 4
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
And in this verse above, this is the reason why they are likened to babes, because they have been deceived unawares by those that have crept into the church, to lead many astray.
In these days its even easier to become a teacher, all you have to do is go to seminary, take a few classes, line yourself up with what positions suit you and get your degree, and you are in business.
This is the reason there is much disagreement in what the word of God teaches, Christians are all at diferent age levels, the young ones listen to their favorite pastor or professor teacher or friend, and what he believes thats what they believe, very few study themselves to be approved by God, seeking knowledge from above;
Listen we have a teacher that can teach us all we need to have to live a life pleasing to God.
Most would rather go to colleges, cause they can get their degree,
And, today, if you don't have a degree you are regarded ignorant and uneducated in the Word of Truth.
As for, living in the flesh, it is evident that these babes are capable of living in the flesh just like the prodigal son who squandered his inheritance in the pleasures of sin, until he came to his senses. He was never disowned as a Son. This is a picture of Godfs faithfulness, and our own unfaithfulness.
There are many verses showing that when a person comes to saving faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior of his life, he translated into Gods kingdon, he becomes a son, and joint heir with Christ, he is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, he no longer is under the law of sin and death, but under the law of the Spirit of Life, his faith is established as a Law unto itself, his name is written in heaven, he is called a saint, a Priest and a King by Gods word. All this and much more even while wandering and grieving the Spirit of Grace.
In due time, this babe will come to his sense, and return to his Father, who has forgiven him and will serve him of his own free will, more fervently than those that never wandered away. I believe this to be the truth.
All, because death has no more domion over these, The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law,
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
All God's children have and advocate;
HE is faithful high priest who intercedes for ALL His day and night, at the right hand of the Father.
God does not disown, his adopted children, he loves his disobedient children because of the great love he has for his obedient Son
I trust this has clearified your questions..
RICHARD
