There is no Free Will PERIOD

[Bobber]

We have to believe that we have received, and you cannot do that if you also believe that your life is scripted to the negative.

Correct and one could say to Jesus if the scripted thing were true, "You're going around encouraging people to believe they receive when they pray. Why are you doing that seeing it may be scripted that they don't?"

 

[Mercy Shown]

No I didn't.
In the predestined perspective,
this post always existed.
It's fate is beyond my control
.

So it is God’s puppet show to amuse himself?

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is no free will in a world that is already predestined.
(As vindicated by countless fulfillments and prophecies)
Even some Physicists agree in the Universe of Destiny
As we cannot live in both Universes (Free will & Destiny) at once.


Therefore,
Every thought we had was predestined thinking;
Every choice we made, was predestined choosing.
&
Every thought we have is predestined thinking,
Every choice we make, is predestined choosing.
&
Every thought we make is destined thinking
Every choice we have, is destined choosing.
&
Every choice [thought] is destined.
Every thought [choosing] is destined.

The real question is why does everyone think opposite?
That, there is a choice?

It could be because every thought we think we have, is not really ours.
If we are predestined individuals under Christ, then we have Hive Mind with Christ.
99.9% of all our thoughts are projected into us by our surroundings or by the past.
Therefore, the solution is to do the opposite of the problem.
Bring our thinking to the present moment called NOW, and isolate ourselves. Matthew 6:6
In that instantaneous and infinite moment called NOW, with zero distractions;
Do we find the Peace of the Supreme.
With the Supreme moment, comes a Supreme awareness of a Supreme intelligence.
This Supreme Intelligence and Supreme Moment is of God.

All Servants who have read this far have been predestined to do so.

You liked my post but never answered the question or commented on it. My question was

Why do you think that every thought we make is predestined, why couldn’t it have just been foreseen?

 

[DavidTheGnome]

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
If some people were predestined to receive Christ and some people not to, would the phrase "believes in Him" instead say "is predestined to believe in Him"?

The predestination Calvinists believe in sounds to me like a supernatural form of communism.

Does God predestine anyone to be L, G, B, or T?
Does God predestine anyone to commit atrocities against other people?
Does God predestine anyone to steal other people's stuff?
Does God predestine anyone to be a heretic?
Those are examples of how humanity chooses freely to disobey God.

God gives people the freedom to choose whether to exist eternally with Him or without Him.
But Jesus is the only way to exist eternally with God.

If the Calvinists were right, then why preach and attempt to guide others to Jesus if people are already predestined?
We preach about Jesus to teach others to choose Him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters;

I am saying that God foreknew (ordained) who He would save and then He predestined (set a plan in motion) how He would do that. We cannot override God's will.

Once God opens our eyes and ears, repent, and come to know the truth, we become slaves to righteousness. God guides us and help us to grow. He knows our good and bad choices. Not free will choices, but choices that He uses to guides us through spiritual growth. David chosed to have an adulterous affair with Bathsheba. He certainly learned never to do that again. Joseph chosed to settle in Nazareth apart from knowing the prophets had foretold of this. God guides His people. He also turns the hearts of kings to where He so will.

Predestination, in my opinion, is one of the most difficult subject to understand because there is a certain mystery about it. But you must start from the point of view that every single person on earth is a corrupt, evil sinner. God loves each of one of His creation. Some of us He saves by His grace and mercy, which is why it is call grace and mercy. Others He does not. Yet, not one of us deserves to be saved. Why is wrapped up in His mysterious will.

What about 1 Peter 1:1-2? You should also factor this information into your interpretation of Romans 8:29 since we’re on the subject of predestination. Are you aware that the Greek word translated to predestined also means to choose beforehand?

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So when you add in the missing piece of information regarding God’s choice being the result of His foreknowledge does that change anything in your interpretation of Romans 8:29? What did He foresee that influenced His choice?

 

[Neogaia777]

Why do you think that every thought we make is predestined, why couldn’t it have just been foreseen?

Because if any being can always foresee a choice with 100% surety/possibility, then there was never any other way it could have gone.

0% possibility is not a possibility.

100% forknoeledge, about everything, means there was never any other kind of other ways/real possibilities of any kind of other way it could have ever gone, or ever could go.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
If some people were predestined to receive Christ and some people not to, would the phrase "believes in Him" instead say "is predestined to believe in Him"?

Sometimes the only way there is to refer to a thing is from the perspective of choice, etc.

Does God predestine anyone to be L, G, B, or T?
Does God predestine anyone to commit atrocities against other people?
Does God predestine anyone to steal other people's stuff?
Does God predestine anyone to be a heretic?

Yes, He does sometimes. Sometimes only for a time, and sometimes with some for a very much longer period of time, etc.

He has vessels that are both good and bad right now, etc.

And he uses both for the purposes He originally made them for right now, etc.

Until he takes us to a place one day where one can exist without the other, etc.

Those are examples of how humanity chooses freely to disobey God.

No, they are not, etc. It's impossible to go against God's will/plans, etc.

God gives people the freedom to choose whether to exist eternally with Him or without Him.

So are you saying we save ourselves then?

But Jesus is the only way to exist eternally with God.

On this much we can agree.

If the Calvinists were right, then why preach and attempt to guide others to Jesus if people are already predestined?

Because we "don't know", etc.

Because we're "not God", etc.

Us "not knowing" means we don't know if someone can go a different way or not, etc.

But if it turns out that they can, it's only because that's how God already made them to go already a long, long time ago, etc.

We preach about Jesus to teach others to choose Him.

It always seems that way from our perspective.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

So it is God’s puppet show to amuse himself?

The fact that you still see it that way shows your complete rebellion/lack of understanding and refusal to submit to God's will.

That being said, we don't know any of this that God knows/already knew a long, long time ago already, etc. And so, for us, everything is still always from the perspective of choice, for absolutely all of us still no matter what, etc.

So giving up on making choices, is not ever an option for us, etc.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because if any being can always foresee a choice with 100% surety/possibility, then there was never any other way it could have gone.

But if that being did not orchestrate what he foresaw that others would do then they did have a choice. The outcome doesn’t deviate from what He foresaw because He foresaw what they would choose.

 

[Neogaia777]

.

But if that being did not orchestrate what he foresaw that others would do then they did have a choice.

If it was about everything 100%, then there was no other way anything else could have gone, because those possibilities are all always 0% if He could indeed foresee it 100%, etc.

And to say He foresaw it all, but didn't orchestrate it, is just another way of saying that being is not God, or didn't ever choose to make it, etc.

If that being didn't orchestrate it, then that being is not God, etc.

Because that is just another way of saying that this being foresaw all of it, but didn't create it or start it or design it or make it, etc.

Therefore, that being cannot be God, etc.

The outcome doesn’t deviate from what He foresaw because He foresaw what they would choose.

I don't even know what this means.

The outcome doesn't ever deviate from what He foresaw because He saw everything 100%, and there was never any possibility of anything ever deviating from it, because He foresaw everything 100%.

And the only other option is that being maybe not being able to see absolutely everything 100% always, etc.

God Bless.

 

[BNR32FAN]

.

If it was about everything 100%, then there was no other way anything else could have gone, because those possibilities are all always 0% if He could indeed foresee it 100%, etc.

And to say He foresaw it all, but didn't orchestrate it, is just another way of saying that being is not God, or didn't ever choose to make it, etc.

If that being didn't orchestrate it, then that being is not God, etc.

Because that is just another way of saying that this being foresaw all of it, but didn't create it or start it or design it or make it, etc.

Therefore, that being cannot be God, etc.

I don't even know what this means.

The outcome doesn't ever deviate from what He foresaw because He saw everything 100%, and there was never any possibility of anything ever deviating from it, because He foresaw everything 100%.

And the only other option is that being maybe not being able to see absolutely everything 100% always, etc.

God Bless.

Why did God create us? Let’s start there because the answer to this question is extremely relevant to this discussion.

 

[Neogaia777]

Why did God create us? Let’s start there because the answer to this question is extremely relevant to this discussion.

To know Him, and Love him, (and each other), and eventually exist where He exists without being able to mess it up after that, for all eternity after that, etc.

Or those are at least some of the reasons maybe.

To know and love ourselves as well, etc.

Those are some of the reasons anyway.

All of which require experiencing evil or suffering evil for a time, etc.

 

[Neogaia777]

.

Why did God create us? Let’s start there because the answer to this question is extremely relevant to this discussion.

And some other reasons might include figuring out all of the evil, or knowing the good from the evil, and then maybe why we were each made by God the specific way each of us were, and why all of this in general is here or was made, etc.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Correct and one could say to Jesus if the scripted thing were true, "You're going around encouraging people to believe they receive when they pray. Why are you doing that seeing it may be scripted that they don't?"

Because the prime issue is not one of receiving. The prime issue is pleasing God by exercising faith. In the faith chapter (Hebrews 11), we see people who believed for things their whole lives and never received what they believed in.

Hebrews 11:6 says,
"Now without faith, it is impossible to please God, since the one who draws near to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

We are told to believe, period. He said all who ask receive, all who seek find, and all who knock receive an opened door. We have to believe these things to be true, not just to receive them but to please God. That is the script. He said that we should pray that the will of God be done on earth as it is in heaven. That is the script.
I recall praying and studying this issue many years ago. I recounted to the Lord times when people appeared to believe, and yet they did not receive. I was not doubting, only seeking. He said, "Your job is to believe. That is what I have commanded you to do. My job is to make it happen. You do your job; I will do mine. What happens is my business, not yours. Your job is to believe."
The scripture says, "He heals all your sicknesses." That is my faith. I hold fast to the confession of that faith. I want to please God, so I know that He rewards me as I diligently seek Him. The script says all who ask receive. The script says all who seek find. All who knock have the door opened. Regardless of what actually happens... this is the profession of our faith. Even unto death.

...... notes........
Hebrews 11:13 KJV
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[David Lamb]

Why did God create us? Let’s start there because the answer to this question is extremely relevant to this discussion.

Well, the Westminster Shorter Catechism says: "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever." "End" in that context means "aim".

 

[HarleyER]

What about 1 Peter 1:1-2? You should also factor this information into your interpretation of Romans 8:29 since we’re on the subject of predestination. Are you aware that the Greek word translated to predestined also means to choose beforehand?

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So when you add in the missing piece of information regarding God’s choice being the result of His foreknowledge does that change anything in your interpretation of Romans 8:29? What did He foresee that influenced His choice?

I'm afraid I'm missing the point.

1 Peter 1:1-2 seems to only reinforce what I've said.

1) We are chosen by God.
2) The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge (ordained) of God.
3) God keeps us through His sanctifying work in the Spirit
5) God causes [His elect] to obey Christ.

Rereading your post, I think you might be confusing "foreknowledge" with "foresee". From GotQuestions.org

Foreknowledge is knowing things or events before they exist or happen. In Greek, the term for “foreknowledge” is prognosis, which expresses the idea of knowing reality before it is real and events before they occur. In Christian theology, foreknowledge refers to the all-knowing, omniscient nature of God whereby He knows reality before it is real, all things and events before they happen, and all people before they exist.​

Both Old and New Testaments speak of God’s foreknowledge. Nothing in the future is hidden from God’s eyes (Isaiah 41:23; 42:9; 44:6–8; 46:10). God sees our lives, our bodies, and our days even before we are conceived: “My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be” (Psalm 139:15–16).​

God promised to bless future peoples through Abraham (Genesis 12:3). God told Moses what would happen with Pharaoh (Exodus 3:19). Through God’s foreknowledge, the prophets spoke of a coming Messiah (Isaiah 9:1–7; Jeremiah 23:5–6). Through Daniel, God made known the future rise and fall of kingdoms (Daniel 2:31–45; 7). And in many New Testament passages, Old Testament prophecies are fulfilled in Jesus Christ’s ministry and in the formation of the church (Matthew 1:22; 4:14; 8:17; John 12:38–41; Acts 2:17–21; 3:22–25; Galatians 3:8; Hebrews 5:6; 1 Peter 1:10–12).​

The apostle Peter teaches that God had foreknowledge of His Son’s sacrificial death long before Jesus died (1 Peter 1:20; see also Revelation 13:8). Jesus’ death on the cross was part of God’s eternal plan of salvation before the creation of the world. On the day of Pentecost, Peter condemns those who put Christ to death but at the same time points to the sovereignty of God: they had been given free rein to do as they wished with Christ because of “God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge” (Acts 2:23). Although evil rulers had conspired to kill the Lord Jesus, His death had been decided by God beforehand (Acts 4:28).​

The Bible teaches that God’s children were chosen beforehand, and God’s foreknowledge was involved. The elect are those “who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” (1 Peter 1:2). “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters” (Romans 8:29).​

But God’s choice of the elect was not simply based on His foreknowledge of events; it was based on His good pleasure: “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” (Ephesians 1:4–5). In Romans 11:2, divine foreknowledge suggests an eternal connection between God and His chosen or “foreknown” people because of His loving faithfulness: “God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew” (ESV).​

The foreknowledge of God is far more than His ability to “see the future”; His foreknowledge is a true “knowing” of what will come to pass, based on His free choice. He decrees what will come to pass. In other words, foreknowledge is not just intellectual; it is personal and relational.​

​

What is foreknowledge in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is foreknowledge in the Bible? What does God have foreknowledge of, according to the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[BNR32FAN]

To know Him, and Love him, (and each other), and eventually exist where He exists without being able to mess it up after that, for all eternity after that, etc.

Or those are at least some of the reasons maybe.

To know and love ourselves as well, etc.

Those are some of the reasons anyway.

All of which require experiencing evil or suffering evil for a time, etc.

Amen, now consider the feeling of love you have towards your family, your parents, brothers & sisters, wife, children. Do you think you could have that same feeling of love for your computer if you programmed it to be affectionate towards you? If it couldn’t respond to you any way other than what you programmed it to do would that be as special and valuable to you as the love you receive from your family?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, the Westminster Shorter Catechism says: "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever." "End" in that context means "aim".

I would’ve expected that our love for God would’ve been included into the equation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm afraid I'm missing the point.

1 Peter 1:1-2 seems to only reinforce what I've said.

1) We are chosen by God.
2) The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge (ordained) of God.
3) God keeps us through His sanctifying work in the Spirit
5) God causes [His elect] to obey Christ.

Rereading your post, I think you might be confusing "foreknowledge" with "foresee". From GotQuestions.org

Foreknowledge is knowing things or events before they exist or happen. In Greek, the term for “foreknowledge” is prognosis, which expresses the idea of knowing reality before it is real and events before they occur. In Christian theology, foreknowledge refers to the all-knowing, omniscient nature of God whereby He knows reality before it is real, all things and events before they happen, and all people before they exist.​

Both Old and New Testaments speak of God’s foreknowledge. Nothing in the future is hidden from God’s eyes (Isaiah 41:23; 42:9; 44:6–8; 46:10). God sees our lives, our bodies, and our days even before we are conceived: “My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be” (Psalm 139:15–16).​

God promised to bless future peoples through Abraham (Genesis 12:3). God told Moses what would happen with Pharaoh (Exodus 3:19). Through God’s foreknowledge, the prophets spoke of a coming Messiah (Isaiah 9:1–7; Jeremiah 23:5–6). Through Daniel, God made known the future rise and fall of kingdoms (Daniel 2:31–45; 7). And in many New Testament passages, Old Testament prophecies are fulfilled in Jesus Christ’s ministry and in the formation of the church (Matthew 1:22; 4:14; 8:17; John 12:38–41; Acts 2:17–21; 3:22–25; Galatians 3:8; Hebrews 5:6; 1 Peter 1:10–12).​

The apostle Peter teaches that God had foreknowledge of His Son’s sacrificial death long before Jesus died (1 Peter 1:20; see also Revelation 13:8). Jesus’ death on the cross was part of God’s eternal plan of salvation before the creation of the world. On the day of Pentecost, Peter condemns those who put Christ to death but at the same time points to the sovereignty of God: they had been given free rein to do as they wished with Christ because of “God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge” (Acts 2:23). Although evil rulers had conspired to kill the Lord Jesus, His death had been decided by God beforehand (Acts 4:28).​

The Bible teaches that God’s children were chosen beforehand, and God’s foreknowledge was involved. The elect are those “who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” (1 Peter 1:2). “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters” (Romans 8:29).​

But God’s choice of the elect was not simply based on His foreknowledge of events; it was based on His good pleasure: “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” (Ephesians 1:4–5). In Romans 11:2, divine foreknowledge suggests an eternal connection between God and His chosen or “foreknown” people because of His loving faithfulness: “God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew” (ESV).​

The foreknowledge of God is far more than His ability to “see the future”; His foreknowledge is a true “knowing” of what will come to pass, based on His free choice. He decrees what will come to pass. In other words, foreknowledge is not just intellectual; it is personal and relational.​

​

What is foreknowledge in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is foreknowledge in the Bible? What does God have foreknowledge of, according to the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

Foreknowledge is a noun and foresee is a verb. It just depends on how the word is being used in a sentence. I probably should’ve used the word foreknew instead of foresee but in the statement I said right before that I did specifically say “according to His foreknowledge”. So now that we have clarified the grammatical issue, what did God foreknow that influence His choice?

 

[eleos1954]

There is no free will in a world that is already predestined.
(As vindicated by countless fulfillments and prophecies)
Even some Physicists agree in the Universe of Destiny
As we cannot live in both Universes (Free will & Destiny) at once.


Therefore,
Every thought we had was predestined thinking;
Every choice we made, was predestined choosing.
&
Every thought we have is predestined thinking,
Every choice we make, is predestined choosing.
&
Every thought we make is destined thinking
Every choice we have, is destined choosing.
&
Every choice [thought] is destined.
Every thought [choosing] is destined.

The real question is why does everyone think opposite?
That, there is a choice?

It could be because every thought we think we have, is not really ours.
If we are predestined individuals under Christ, then we have Hive Mind with Christ.
99.9% of all our thoughts are projected into us by our surroundings or by the past.
Therefore, the solution is to do the opposite of the problem.
Bring our thinking to the present moment called NOW, and isolate ourselves. Matthew 6:6
In that instantaneous and infinite moment called NOW, with zero distractions;
Do we find the Peace of the Supreme.
With the Supreme moment, comes a Supreme awareness of a Supreme intelligence.
This Supreme Intelligence and Supreme Moment is of God.

All Servants who have read this far have been predestined to do so.

The bible has many verses that state mankind (angels as well) has free choice .... Love can not exist without choice. God is love and created all his intelligent beings with the choice to love or not.