Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Leaf473]

Sorry I thought my point was obvious. I'm not Hasidic nor do I believe in their extreme legalism which they get from faithfully following the Talmud. It's their Bible.

Right, so how does learning about the Talmud help people understand the Sabbath keepers' position? Or did you mis-type something along the way?

 

[Gary K]

Right, so how does learning about the Talmud help people understand the Sabbath keepers' position? Or did you mis-type something along the way?

The Pharisees followed the Talmud far more than the 10. In fact, the scribes and and lawyers, which is what the Pharisees were as the Sanhedrin was the supreme court of Israel wrote the Talmud. It was called the Oral law in Biblical times as it was passed down from generation to generation and not actually written until about 200 years after Christ's death. It was first started about 600 years before the birth of Christ and created by Jewish lawyers as a hedge against ever returning to idolatry. Unfortunately when a small part of the Jewish nation starts writing its laws for that long of a time it becomes idolatry in and of itself.

 

[Leaf473]

The Pharisees followed the Talmud far more than the 10. In fact, the scribes and and lawyers, which is what the Pharisees were as the Sanhedrin was the supreme court of Israel wrote the Talmud. It was called the Oral law in Biblical times as it was passed down from generation to generation and not actually written until about 200 years after Christ's death. It was first started about 600 years before the birth of Christ and created by Jewish lawyers as a hedge against ever returning to idolatry. Unfortunately when a small part of the Jewish nation starts writing its laws for that long of a time it becomes idolatry in and of itself.

Okay... And how does that relate to the Sabbath keepers position? Especially Christian Sabbath keepers?

 

[Gary K]

Okay... And how does that relate to the Sabbath keepers position? Especially Christian Sabbath keepers?

It doesn't affect our position at all. It affects those who see the 4th commandment as bondage. The Pharisees had at least a thousand laws telling them how to "keep" the Sabbath. There are actually two Talmuds, the Palestinian and the Babylonian, that in print form a total of more than 10,000 pages. In ebook form there are more than 5500 pages of rules.

 

[Leaf473]

It doesn't affect our position at all.

Hmmm... Then what are you talking about in this post?

To help you understand the Sabbath keepers' position read the following post of mine.

Jesus reveals that the 4th commandment is not moral law

Nope, he did dot make the Mosaic Covenant with all peoples. He made that covenant only with Israel (Lev 26:46; Deut 4:7-8; 6:20-25; 31:26; Ps 147:19; Est 3:8; Neh 9:7-15; Ezek 28:20:10-12; Act 7:53; Rom 9:4, etc.). Moreover, the Mosaic Covenant was bilteral in nature. Only the nation of...

www.christianforums.com

It affects those who see the 4th commandment as bondage. The Pharisees had at least a thousand laws telling them how to "keep" the Sabbath. There are actually two Talmuds, the Palestinian and the Babylonian, that in print form a total of more than 10,000 pages. In ebook form there are more than 5500 pages of rules.

 

[Gary K]

Hmmm... Then what are you talking about in this post?

We aren't following the Talmud so it doesn't affect us at all. What the Talmud does is point how mistaken people are who call the 10 commandments, and especially the 4th, bondage. The bondage which Jesus pointed out was the Pharisees bondage to the Talmud and their extreme legalism.

 

[Leaf473]

We aren't following the Talmud so it doesn't affect us at all. What the Talmud does is point how mistaken people are who call the 10 commandments, and especially the 4th, bondage. The bondage which Jesus pointed out was the Pharisees bondage to the Talmud and their extreme legalism.

Yes, trying to follow the talmud would definitely be a kind of bondage. But not the only kind, I think. A different kind of bondage is talked about here

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:3 - New American Standard Bible

So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Yes, trying to follow the talmud would definitely be a kind of bondage. But not the only kind, I think. A different kind of bondage is talked about here

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:3 - New American Standard Bible

So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world.

www.biblegateway.com

Yes. Paul is talking about the bondage of sin.

2Pe_2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Jesus said essentially the same thing.

Joh_8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

But He also called His followers servants as well as used that term in his parables quite a few times in describing those who were out spreading the gospel. I see nothing wrong with that but apparently those who share your beliefs would as they say the Sabbath is bondage. A servant is in bondage as they do not get paid for their labor.

Joh_15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes. Paul is talking about the bondage of sin.



Jesus said essentially the same thing.



But He also called His followers servants as well as used that term in his parables quite a few times in describing those who were out spreading the gospel. I see nothing wrong with that but apparently those who share your beliefs would as they say the Sabbath is bondage. A servant is in bondage as they do not get paid for their labor.

Okay... Can a person be unconcerned about the Talmud and yet still be in bondage to an instruction in the scriptures about the Sabbath?

 

[Gary K]

Okay... Can a person be unconcerned about the Talmud and yet still be in bondage to an instruction in the scriptures about the Sabbath?

Yes. It's always been pleasing to thr unconverted heart to desire to save themselves. It strokes our ego to imagine we can save ourselves.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes. It's always been pleasing to thr unconverted heart to desire to save themselves. It strokes our ego to imagine we can save ourselves.

Okay... What would be an example of a person being in bondage to an instruction about the Sabbath?

 

[Gary K]

Okay... What would be an example of a person being in bondage to an instruction about the Sabbath?

It's not about specific examples about keeping the Sabbath. It's about motivation just like any other type of behavior

 

[Leaf473]

It's not about specific examples about keeping the Sabbath. It's about motivation just like any other type of behavior

Okay, then it sounds like a person could be in bondage to the Sabbath commandment found in the ten commandments.

Do you believe this law ended at the cross?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23:3 - The Message

“Work six days. The seventh day is a Sabbath, a day of total and complete rest, a sacred assembly. Don’t do any work. Wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to GOD.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Okay, then it sounds like a person could be in bondage to the Sabbath commandment found in the ten commandments.

Do you believe this law ended at the cross?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23:3 - The Message

“Work six days. The seventh day is a Sabbath, a day of total and complete rest, a sacred assembly. Don’t do any work. Wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to GOD.

www.biblegateway.com

Of course not. That's a silly question as I'm a Sabbath keeper.

As I said before, the uconverted heart loves to imagine it has something it can do to earn salvation. That's the basis for every other religion in the world.

 

[Leaf473]

Of course not. That's a silly question as I'm a Sabbath keeper.

As I said before, the uconverted heart loves to imagine it has something it can do to earn salvation. That's the basis for every other religion in the world.

Which question is a silly question, in your view?

 

[Gary K]

Which question is a silly question, in your view?

That the 4th commandment came to an end at the cross. I'm a Sabbath keeper and we have discussed this for how many posts? One or two hundred, plus all the other posts of mine you've read.

 

[Leaf473]

That the 4th commandment came to an end at the cross. I'm a Sabbath keeper and we have discussed this for how many posts? One or two hundred, plus all the other posts of mine you've read.

This isn't from the ten commandments, it's from Leviticus 23

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23:3 - The Message

“Work six days. The seventh day is a Sabbath, a day of total and complete rest, a sacred assembly. Don’t do any work. Wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to GOD.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

This isn't from the ten commandments, it's from Leviticus 23

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23:3 - The Message

“Work six days. The seventh day is a Sabbath, a day of total and complete rest, a sacred assembly. Don’t do any work. Wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to GOD.

www.biblegateway.com

It is quoting the 4th commandment. I thought that was very obvious.

 

[Leaf473]

It is quoting the 4th commandment. I thought that was very obvious.

Leviticus 23 talks about a required assembly on the seventh day. I don't think the fourth commandment talks about that, does it?

 

[Gary K]

Leviticus 23 talks about a required assembly on the seventh day. I don't think the fourth commandment talks about that, does it?

You don't think spending time with God in worship is part of keeping the Sabbath day holy?