The sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25: The Progressive Dispensationalist view

[Marilyn C]

Obviously, you cannot see the signs and understand it because of the carnal mind has blinded you on everything thinking everything must be literal and take place in the Middle East, not realizing that the Church is the center of God's purpose! Not national Israel!

Actually, Jesus is the center of God`s word and we, the B/C are just one purpose. Jesus the worthy one exalted far above all and will put down all rule, authority and power, He is the center of all God`s purposes.

And those purposes involve each realm that the Lord made and whom He will give rulership to - third heaven, Universal realm and the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Indeed and Mailyn fail to see that we, Gentile Christians in the New Testament, are defined by God as spiritual Jew, Elect in Christ. We are all one and the same Israel in Christ. Nothing to be said about future salvation for the "nation Israel" which was only an Old Testament representative of God's kingdom.

Yes, we are elect in Christ, however God did not make the nation of Israel and then disregard them. Their purpose will be fulfilled by Christ at His coming in power and great glory with the angels at the end of the trib.

 

[Marilyn C]

No, that isn't what I think at all. Good grief.


No one is taken and no one left in Matthew 25:31-46. The concept of one being taken and one left is in terms of people who are alive when Christ returns. One will be physically killed and one will physically survive. That is NOT the context of Matthew 25:31-46.

Matthew 25:31-46 is not about people either being physically killed or physically surviving. It is about either inheriting eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world or being cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Being cast into the everlasting fire is not a case of being physically killed. So, can you see the difference in the contexts of Matthew 24:37-41 and Matthew 25:31-46 now?

So how do you see all the nations who are alive, being judged?

You see that is when the Lord comes to earth whereas in the GWT there is no heaven or earth for they fled away, thus it is NOT at the GWT time.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Everyone shall bow and give an account but the B/C will do it at the Bema (reward) seat of Christ, whereas the nations will do it at the GWT.

I gave evidence to show that unbelievers will give an account of themselves at the judgment seat of Christ as well, but you did not bother to address the evidence I gave to support my view. Why is that?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So how do you see all the nations who are alive, being judged?

It isn't nations being judged, it's individuals. The Greek word "ethnos" has multiple definitions. It's unfortunate that it was translated as "nations" in Matthew 25:32. It should have been translated as "people". One of the definitions of "ethnos" is people in general. So, it will include all people from all-time including the dead that are resurrected at that time.

You see that is when the Lord comes to earth whereas in the GWT there is no heaven or earth for they fled away, thus it is NOT at the GWT time.

Where does Matthew 25:31-46 say anything about the Lord coming to the earth?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes, we are elect in Christ, however God did not make the nation of Israel and then disregard them. Their purpose will be fulfilled by Christ at His coming in power and great glory with the angels at the end of the trib.

Why would you assume that a New Testament reference to the elect would be in reference to anything but the church/body of Christ? Why do you assume it's a reference to the nation of Israel instead?

 

[Marilyn C]

It isn't nations being judged, it's individuals. The Greek word "ethnos" has multiple definitions. It's unfortunate that it was translated as "nations" in Matthew 25:32. It should have been translated as "people". One of the definitions of "ethnos" is people in general. So, it will include all people from all-time including the dead that are resurrected at that time.


Where does Matthew 25:31-46 say anything about the Lord coming to the earth?

`When the Son of Man COMES in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him....` (Matt. 25: 31)
`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory.


`Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)


`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

[Spiritual Jew]

`When the Son of Man COMES in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him....` (Matt. 25: 31)
`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory.


`Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)


`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

Where does any of that say anything about Jesus coming to the earth? I know He is coming from heaven, but then what? Scripture says we will meet Him "in the air" (1 Thess 4:14-17). Nothing about Him coming to the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Where does any of that say anything about Jesus coming to the earth? I know He is coming from heaven, but then what? Scripture says we will meet Him "in the air" (1 Thess 4:14-17). Nothing about Him coming to the earth.

`Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES. ` (Zech. 14: 3 & 4)

 

[TribulationSigns]

`Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES. ` (Zech. 14: 3 & 4)

This already took place at the First Coming of Christ before He went to the Cross. Zechariah 14 was the fulfillment of the first coming. The not future second coming with physical war and Christ returns to Mount of Olives causing the mountain to crack into half. Geez.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

`Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES. ` (Zech. 14: 3 & 4)

Can you acknowledge that none of the passages you had cited (Matt 25:31-46, Matt 24:30-31, 2 Thess 1:7) said anything about Him coming to the earth? You would think that if He was actually coming to the earth you'd see that described somewhere in the New Testament where there are many passages about His second coming, but none of them say anything about Him coming to the earth.

As for this passage from Zechariah 14, where does it say anything about His second coming? He stood on the Mount of Olives long ago already at His first coming. Do you understand that if you take Zechariah 14 literally and apply it to Christ's second coming and a time following His second coming, that would mean animal sacrifices would be reinstated (see Zech 14:16-21) even though that would contradict what it says about Christ's "once for all" sacrifice putting an end the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings (see Hebrews 8-10)? Are you comfortable with that?

 

[Marilyn C]

This already took place at the First Coming of Christ before He went to the Cross. Zechariah 14 was the fulfillment of the first coming. The not future second coming with physical war and Christ returns to Mount of Olives causing the mountain to crack into half. Geez.

`I will gather all nations to battle against Jerusalem...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...` (Zech. 14: 1 - 4)

 

[Marilyn C]

Can you acknowledge that none of the passages you had cited (Matt 25:31-46, Matt 24:30-31, 2 Thess 1:7) said anything about Him coming to the earth? You would think that if He was actually coming to the earth you'd see that described somewhere in the New Testament where there are many passages about His second coming, but none of them say anything about Him coming to the earth.

As for this passage from Zechariah 14, where does it say anything about His second coming? He stood on the Mount of Olives long ago already at His first coming. Do you understand that if you take Zechariah 14 literally and apply it to Christ's second coming and a time following His second coming, that would mean animal sacrifices would be reinstated (see Zech 14:16-21) even though that would contradict what it says about Christ's "once for all" sacrifice putting an end the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings (see Hebrews 8-10)? Are you comfortable with that?

`This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.` (Acts 1: 11)

Jesus will come from heaven and descend to earth in the reverse manner that He went.

 

[TribulationSigns]

`I will gather all nations to battle against Jerusalem...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...` (Zech. 14: 1 - 4)

Do you know what nations are they? Geopolitical nations? or Gentiles (unsaved) as we were before we were born again? ALL OF US went against Christ at the Cross in a spiritual sense! Think! Were we responsible for Christ's death with our sins? Do you think God is talking about captivity of physical Jersualem where women are being raped? And HALF of the city goes into captivity? Who are the residue of the people not cut off from the city? What city is this, REALLY? Do you think she is physical city of Jersualem or CONGREGATION ISRAEL made up of Elect and professed believers? Which one will be sent into spiritual captivity while the rest are spared and pardoned? Remember, Many are called, and FEW are chosen?

Isa 40:1-2
(1) Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
(2) Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

These all took place at the cross. Not the Second Coming with the armies of all nations coming down to nation Israel with missiles, guns, ships, etc. Not going to happen! Silly Jewish fable!

 

[Marilyn C]

Do you know what nations are they? Geopolitical nations? or Gentiles (unsaved) as we were before we were born again? ALL OF US went against Christ at the Cross in a spiritual sense! Think! Were we responsible for Christ's death with our sins? Do you think God is talking about captivity of physical Jersualem where women are being raped? And HALF of the city goes into captivity? Who are the residue of the people not cut off from the city? What city is this, REALLY? Do you think she is physical city of Jersualem or CONGREGATION ISRAEL made up of Elect and professed believers? Which one will be sent into spiritual captivity while the rest are spared and pardoned? Remember, Many are called, and FEW are chosen?

Isa 40:1-2
(1) Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
(2) Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

These all took place at the cross. Not the Second Coming with the armies of all nations coming down to nation Israel with missiles, guns, ships, etc. Not going to happen! Silly Jewish fable!

`Many are called...` etc is NOT the B/C as that was NOT revealed at that time. God`s word is NOT all about US but the Lord, His character and His purposes. Mix those up reading the OT as about US and you make God1s word null and void.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

`This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.` (Acts 1: 11)

Jesus will come from heaven and descend to earth in the reverse manner that He went.

You are taking that verse completely out of context. That verse does not say He will come back to the same place from where He left. Instead, it says He will come from heaven in the same manner in which He left earth. In what manner did He leave earth? Visibly and bodily. He will descend from heaven in the same manner in which He ascended to heaven. That is what it's saying in Acts 1:11. So, people will see Him after He descends from heaven just as they saw Him ascend towards heaven. But, scripture says we will meet Him "in the air", not on the earth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are taking that verse completely out of context. That verse does not say He will come back to the same place from where He left. Instead, it says He will come from heaven in the same manner in which He left earth. In what manner did He leave earth? Visibly and bodily. He will descend from heaven in the same manner in which He ascended to heaven. That is what it's saying in Acts 1:11. So, people will see Him after He descends from heaven just as they saw Him ascend towards heaven. But, scripture says we will meet Him "in the air", not on the earth.

Very good. I agree with this 100% Nowhere in Scripture that Christ (and his Saints) will continue to descend to Earth. They will meet in the air where the Final Judgment will take place before the New Earth and New Heaven will take place. No need to return to sin-cursed Earth since there won't be 7 years or 1,000 more years for it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

`Many are called...` etc is NOT the B/C as that was NOT revealed at that time. God`s word is NOT all about US but the Lord, His character and His purposes. Mix those up reading the OT as about US and you make God1s word null and void.

You do not make any sense at all. What are you talking about??

 

[Marilyn C]

You are taking that verse completely out of context. That verse does not say He will come back to the same place from where He left. Instead, it says He will come from heaven in the same manner in which He left earth. In what manner did He leave earth? Visibly and bodily. He will descend from heaven in the same manner in which He ascended to heaven. That is what it's saying in Acts 1:11. So, people will see Him after He descends from heaven just as they saw Him ascend towards heaven. But, scripture says we will meet Him "in the air", not on the earth.

I agree we, the B/C will meet the Lord in the air, however that is before the trib. After the trib, the Lord will come to earth and deliver Israel and judge the nations that are still on the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Very good. I agree with this 100% Nowhere in Scripture that Christ (and his Saints) will continue to descend to Earth. They will meet in the air where the Final Judgment will take place before the New Earth and New Heaven will take place. No need to return to sin-cursed Earth since there won't be 7 years or 1,000 more years for it.

I agree that we do not come back to earth.