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Lulav

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That's an interesting question knowing what the scripture actually says about the new-renewed covenant: every one shall die for his own iniquity.

Jeremiah 31:26-31 KJV
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Yes, no more generational curses.


'I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, (They don't KEEP my COMMANDMENTS)

6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.'
 
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rturner76

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I see you are Catholic so I will ask you do you celebrate all the masses that are held at different times of the year or do you have the attitude that you'll do that whenever you want?
I usually go to non mass during the week but there is always a Saturday and Snday option for me.
God is above all man's doings, and pointing to the Fact that he is the Creator by keeping this day holy is the least I can do for MY GOD
Thet's why we put God first, not Saturday.
 
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Lulav

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Please note that the NT was written in Greek, not Hebrew; i.e., the meaning of the NT is the meaning of the Greek.
The first mention of this Covenant was originally written in Hebrew, In Jeremiah 31.

Yes, there is the Septuagint but that wasn't always translated properly.

@daq is speaking of subtile differences that occured since then leading to a 'telephone game' type translation into English.
 
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Lulav

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I usually go to non mass during the week but there is always a Saturday and Snday option for me.

Thet's why we put God first, not Saturday.
It is the day he sanctified and separated from the rest of the week, pointing to his existence and Holiness.

I'm sorry you can't understand that.
 
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rturner76

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May I ask what a 'non-mass' is?
Typo, I meant noon Mass. In the larger parishes, there are five Masses (Church services) per day. So Saturday is covered as well as every other day of the week 5 times a day. What I love about my denomination is that the Lord's supper can be taken 5 times a day instead of Once a week or once a month like some churches. The Lord's supper is what we gathered to partake in at every service as the Lord instructed "do this in remembrance of me" In my Church, we are more focused on communion than Saturday worship though Saturday worship is available in every Catholic Church.
 
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Bob S

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It is the day he sanctified and separated from the rest of the week, pointing to his existence and Holiness.

I'm sorry you can't understand that.
Yes, He did. He set it aside for one nation. He didn't do it for Gentile nations and of course it ended with the ratification of the New and better covenant with better promises at Calvary.
 
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Lulav

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Yes, He did. He set it aside for one nation. He didn't do it for Gentile nations and of course it ended with the ratification of the New and better covenant with better promises at Calvary.
Any that joined themselves to the children of Israel would have it to keep as well. Not all the servants were Jews.

And it wasn't just for the nation of people it also included:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but
the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.
In it you shall do no work:
  1. you,
  2. nor your son,
  3. nor your daughter,
  4. nor your male servant,
  5. nor your female servant,
  6. nor your cattle,
  7. nor your stranger who is within your gates.
 
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Studyman

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Yes, He did. He set it aside for one nation. He didn't do it for Gentile nations and of course it ended with the ratification of the New and better covenant with better promises at Calvary.

This is the teaching of the RCC and her protestant daughters. But the God of the Bible says "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.", Jesus and His Disciples walked in this "way" of the Lord.

And again;

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Again in the New Covenant "of God".

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Again in the New Covenant "of God".

Rom. 11: 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentile) wert graffed in "among them", and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

And of course the Word's of the Lord's Christ Himself, who cannot lie.

John 4: 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Many Religious men, who profess to know God, have rejected God's Way, His Sabbaths and Judgments, claiming they have created a "better way". Even the serpent convinced Eve of a "better way". I know God's Priesthood changed for the "better", but i don't buy into this world's religious philosophies regarding their definition of what "better" means.

So often it becomes a debate between religious philosophies of men, VS. What the scriptures actually say.
 
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rturner76

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Any that joined themselves to the children of Israel would have it to keep as well. Not all the servants were Jews.

And it wasn't just for the nation of people it also included:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but
the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.
In it you shall do no work:
  1. you,
  2. nor your son,
  3. nor your daughter,
  4. nor your male servant,
  5. nor your female servant,
  6. nor your cattle,
  7. nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Then he asked them, “If one of you has a child or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull it out?”

Jesus knew that there may be work on the Sabbath

One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels.

Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?
Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

The son of man is lord, not the law of Judah or the Sabbath. If you want to follow Jewish laws, I suggest you become a Jew. Those of us under the new covenant will follow the law of love in Christ.

I think it is more important to Christianize ourselves that Judiaze ourselves. Though any one of us is welcome to follow the 613 laws of the Orthodox Jew but for Gentiles, it is not a requirement. So I have one question, are you a Jew or a Christian? Maybe a Jewish Christian who partakes in both covenants? Christians are under the new covenant so I recommend the Christian route rather than being judged on the law of Moses on your own merits. As a Christian, you have an advocate who has paid the price for your sins. I think that is an easier way to join God's covenant rather than your own merits. Still, your choice, and I don't begrudge you either one.
 
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Bob S

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Any that joined themselves to the children of Israel would have it to keep as well. Not all the servants were Jews.

And it wasn't just for the nation of people it also included:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but
the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.
In it you shall do no work:
  1. you,
  2. nor your son,
  3. nor your daughter,
  4. nor your male servant,
  5. nor your female servant,
  6. nor your cattle,
  7. nor your stranger who is within your gates.
All directed by God to one nation, Israel.
 
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Bob S

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This is the teaching of the RCC and her protestant daughters. But the God of the Bible says "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.", Jesus and His Disciples walked in this "way" of the Lord.

And again;

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Again in the New Covenant "of God".

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Again in the New Covenant "of God".

Rom. 11: 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentile) wert graffed in "among them", and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

And of course the Word's of the Lord's Christ Himself, who cannot lie.

John 4: 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Many Religious men, who profess to know God, have rejected God's Way, His Sabbaths and Judgments, claiming they have created a "better way". Even the serpent convinced Eve of a "better way". I know God's Priesthood changed for the "better", but i don't buy into this world's religious philosophies regarding their definition of what "better" means.

So often it becomes a debate between religious philosophies of men, VS. What the scriptures actually say.
None of your verses indicate God giving any other nation the old covenant. Gentiles had the opportunity to join if they so chose. I suppose you have some way of denying 2Cor3:
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

and Eph 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
 
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Studyman

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None of your verses indicate God giving any other nation the old covenant. Gentiles had the opportunity to join if they so chose. I suppose you have some way of denying 2Cor3:
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

I believe in God's New Covenant, where the Letter of the Law of forgiveness, " Lev. 4: 28. Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

31. "and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him", Kills.

These "Works of the Law" had a Spiritual meaning. By the "letter" there was death. But by the Spirit there was Life.

The definition of Sin and Righteousness has not changed. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible, and Paul.

And the Scriptures I posted, that you pretty much ignored, show that God's "instruction in righteousness" was NOT "made" just for men born of a certain DNA as you preach, rather, God's way, given first to the Jews, was created for all men, Jew and Gentile.

As it is written, as Paul teaches. "For there is no respect of persons with God."

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Absolutely. A New and better Priesthood, an incorruptible one.

But we are still judged by our Deeds as Jesus Himself, that is, the Jesus of the Bible teaches.

Matt. 5: 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Body of the Christ of the Bible, "Presses toward this mark of the high calling of God, which was in the Lord's Christ", as Paul teaches.

and Eph 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

It wasn't God, who was "Teaching for doctrine the Commandments of men". It was the children of the devil who had taken over God's Temple. They are the ones who were leading men astray, who had created this barrier. Not God. As it is written;

Eph. 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Jew and Gentile)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

It was the "Circumcision", AKA, the Pharisees who were calling the Gentiles who repented, "Uncircumcised". Not God or God's Word, as the scriptures I posted and you ignored clearly show.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

The Corrupted Priesthood had deemed repentant Gentiles as without hope and without God. But The Holy scriptures taught just the opposite. Jesus made a show of these deceivers openly.

Col. 2: 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

To believe the religious philosophy you are promoting, I would have to believe God was the principalities and powers Paul was speaking about here. That Jesus made a show of God openly and triumphed over God on the Cross.

When the Scriptures actually teach that Jesus made a show of the mainstream preachers of His Time, the Pharisees, who had a Law, "We have a Law, and by our Law, HE must die". And another "Gentiles in the flesh, are without God".

But Jesus nailed these ordinances, created by the "Circumcision" of the flesh made with hands, that were against Paul and the Gentiles, and certainly Jesus, to His Cross,

The deceiver would have you omit and reject these truths and convince you that God's Law was against Jew and Gentile, and God's LAW condemned repentant Gentiles. But as the Scriptures i posted, that you didn't address, clearly show this as a false doctrine. Jesus warned us about this very thing.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Don't listen to them. Follow Paul's instruction he gave to New Covenant believers.

2 Tim. 3: 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (That God created beforehand that we, repentant Jew and Gentile, should walk in them."

AS Paul teaches. "Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 
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expos4ever

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No, I believe the point is to honor the day the LORD set aside and sanctified and made separate (HOLY) from the other 6 days.
I suggest that a person attuned to the scriptural narrative will understand that Sunday is now the appropriate day.

It is on a Sunday, the first day of the new week, that Jesus emerges from the tomb. This is a new creation event - it is not, I suggest, a coincidence that Jesus emerges on the first day of, yes, a new week. By itself, this signals the possibility that Sunday is now the day to celebrate the new creation that has supplanted the old creation. What's more, Jesus tomb is in a garden, evoking echoes of the garden of Eden in Genesis. The hints are clear, this is a new creation story intended to supersede the story told in Genesis. And there is even more. On the sixth day of the week, Pilate presents Jesus and utters "Behold the man!". Now on day 6 in the Geneis account, God also declares: Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;...

The evidence is compelling: the resurrection comprises a new creation story in which Sunday features as the day to celebrate the creative work of God.
 
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Lulav

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Then he asked them, “If one of you has a child or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull it out?”

Jesus knew that there may be work on the Sabbath
It is not servile work to help a helpless creature of the LORD on the Sabbath, that is showing mercy, a thing that GOD very much likes to see. Compassion for another. Not work.

One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels.

Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?
Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Again, compassion, they were hungry and there were no corner McDonalds to stop by on their way. Besides the ones who accused him were going by their man made laws. They considered a picking of a grain as 'harvesting' , it is not found in the Torah to pick off a fruit on the Sabbath.
The son of man is lord, not the law of Judah or the Sabbath.
Sorry, I can't untangle that but I think you are speaking of when Yeshua proclaimed that he was LORD of the Sabbath,it would be just like when given the 10 YHVH explained it was because He was the creator

but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God...... For the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything in them in six days; then He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and declared it holy.

^^ The LORD of the Sabbath, is the one who blessed it and proclaimed it HOLY, set apart in honor of him.

Since all things were made by him, the Word, Yeshua Jesus (John 1) then he was right there with the Father in proclaiming the Sabbath, he is just letting them know that.


If you want to follow Jewish laws, I suggest you become a Jew.
Thank you for your permission and I already do and am. :)
Those of us under the new covenant will follow the law of love in Christ.
I follow the laws he proclaimed were the the Law of LOVE from Matthew 22 - This is my hanger of LOVE

LAw of Love.jpg



I think it is more important to Christianize ourselves that Judiaze ourselves.
strange way of putting things but I get what you are saying. However I will say this, that I follow the Messiah of Judah.
Though any one of us is welcome to follow the 613 laws of the Orthodox Jew but for Gentiles, it is not a requirement.
No, that is not true. You are not a Levite so even with a temple you would not be allowed to participate even if you converted to Judaism. However there are many things in the commandments that show who the God you worship is to the world and fall totally in line with the law of Love Jesus preached.
So I have one question, are you a Jew or a Christian? Maybe a Jewish Christian who partakes in both covenants? Christians are under the new covenant so I recommend the Christian route rather than being judged on the law of Moses on your own merits. As a Christian, you have an advocate who has paid the price for your sins. I think that is an easier way to join God's covenant rather than your own merits. Still, your choice, and I don't begrudge you either one.
Thanks for the recommendation but I'll keep on the path I am on.



For this is the love of God: to keep his commandments; and
his commandments are not burdensome.
 
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Lulav

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Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
It is obvious that what he is speaking of here is the Ten Words or Ten commandments that GOD Himself wrote on the tablets of stone, yes Carved in stone, That were copies of what was in heaven in GODS/JESUS' throne,
so I would ask myself....

Was God hateful to his people?
If they followed those words written in stone would they die?
Why would God be so cruel?
Was everything that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did in following his instructions (TORAH means Instruction) of futility?

What about this? Did the Wisest man in the world, given the wisdom from above not know what he was talking about?

Keep the commandments and keep your life; despising them leads to death. Proverbs

Or why did Jesus say:

"But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” - Matthew
 
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Lulav

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and Eph 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
In the temple in the time this was written were many places. Today there is hostility where the Gentiles keep out the Jews from the Temple mount but that is not a reversal of sorts.
In the time of the second Temple there was a place for the Gentiles to come and worship. A rather huge place, some say it could have held 10,000.



1677183452977.png


Yes there were areas specific to certain persons. There were barrier signs, but just as when they gathered at the mountain of God Moses set up stones so the people wouldn't trespass and be killed.
In the Temple complex there was plenty of room for Gentiles called the court of the Gentiles, there was also a court for the women, a court for the men of Israel and then a court for the priests and the Holy place where only certain priest could be and then there was the HOLIEST place where only the HIGH priest could enter once a year.

You don't make peace by sanctioning anarchy. There is an orderly way to walk with the Lord.
 
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Lulav

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I suggest that a person attuned to the scriptural narrative will understand that Sunday is now the appropriate day.
Those 'attuned' to Jew haters might.

For example between the destruction of Jerusalem and 135A.D. , the Christians from Jerusalem maintained Sabbath observance. in A.D. 135, Emperor Hadrian destroyed Jerusalem and expelled Jews and Jewish Christians. Then he prohibited practicing any “Jewish rites,” like circumcision and Sabbath-keeping, in his empire.

The Christians in Rome who were mostly Gentiles being aware of Hadrians edict wishing to keep in good graces moved even further away from what was the beginning of this time the 'new religion'.

Making 'peace' with their neighboring pagans they allowed them to join in and soon took on their ways (which if they had been taught the 'OLD' covenant they would have learned NOT to do and in appeasement they switched the day of rest to SUN day, the day the pagans upheld the day of the Sun.

They substituted the Christians’ seventh-day Sabbath with what they had always practiced in paganism: Sunday observance. In order to do this they made GODS HOLY and Ordained declaration that he was the CREATOR into a gloomy fast day (which goes against the Torah and Prophets as Shabbat is to be a time of joyfulness (except on Yom Kippur).

“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words... Isaiah 58

They were sun worshipers not SON worshipers.
Sunday was the official day of rest and feasting for most pagan religions. From the ancient Germans, Saxons, and Egyptians, to the Romans.
It was a day dedicated to the worship of their chief god, the sun.


That’s why it was named “sun-day.


The TRUE GOD calls the seventh day HIS SABBATH, HIS HOLY DAY, why would believer not want to uphold what HE SPOKE DIRECTLY to his children?

When the 'Church Fathers' were asked why they changed it, these leaders had to figure out some agreeable reasons. They decided on three:


  • It was the day Jesus resurrected (Mark 16:9). (Incorrect, if they had any Jewish council they would understand this)
  • It was a memorial for the beginning of creation in Genesis 1. (This is a day when there was chaos and God needed to remove the darkness - Also since Jesus is to be the second Adam that hadn't happened yet, not until the 6th day)
  • Strangely, they began calling it the “eighth day,” coming after the seventh, making it superior, and signaling a new beginning. Based on their interpretation of end-time events, it represented the dawn of a new world after the era of sin in this present world. (this teaches there is no longer sin in the world which anyone with eyes knows is not true. that day won't come until Jesus makes all things new, which he hasn't done yet).
 
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