The Last Saints

[JulieB67]

So far... you have NOT SHOWN an ability to DEFINE the words
or to discern WHICH Beast is involved.
You have shown blindness.
Nothing more.

We'll see in the end.
As I said, I'll trust Christ's teachings over man's. Especially one that can't produce specific scripture that was asked for to back up what they're talking about. None of the scripture you posted proved there was more than one beast system that produced a mark, image that was worshipped, etc. All scripture clearly points to Revelation 13 which lays that system out and the rest of the scripture coincides with that perfectly. You produced nothing that disproves that. Nothing. Assumptions on your part is not proof.

As I said, we'll see...

 

[DavidPT]

All scripture clearly points to Revelation 13 which lays that system out and the rest of the scripture coincides with that perfectly.

You and I, and others as well, see this being relevant, the fact the saints per Revelation 20:4, which had not worshiped his image, which then means this was there fate because of that---and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed---that this means they are martyred during the era of time this is being enforced, and that they are martyred before satan is loosed from the pit. Except Amils would have us believe that the time involving what is recorded in Revelation 13, this is meaning after the thousand years.

In order for there to be anyone martyred for refusing to worship his image, the following has to be fufilled first---and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit(Revelation 17:8) . Except Amils would have us believe that the beast ascends out of the pit when satan does. That contradicts the fact that there are already saints being martyred for refusing to worship the beast, nor it's image, prior to satan ascending out of the pit.

This means to some of us that the beast and satan are not in the pit at the same time, thus can't ascend out of the pit at the same time. And that Revelation 19 followed by Revelation 20:1 through Revelation 20:10 also proves it. In ch 19 the LOF is in view, and that we see it involves someone getting cast into the LOF. What we don't see in that ch is that it also involves satan followed by humans getting cast into the LOF at that time as well. That's some major events to be ommitting in ch 19 if John indeed saw satan followed by humans also being cast into the LOF at that time.

I don't know what your view of Daniel 7:12 is, but it's pretty clear to me that it is meaning after the little horn is given to the burning flame, where I take that to be involving Revelation 19:20, where I then take that to be involving the 2nd coming of Christ, that the rest of the beasts meant in verse 12, instead of them being given to the burning flame at the time, their lives are prolonged for a season and time. Which then demands that there has to be a period of time following the fulfillment of Revelation 19:20 in order to fulfill Daniel 7:12. The thousand years and satan's little season appears to explain this period of time needed following the 2nd coming.

 

[5thKingdom]

We'll see in the end.
As I said, I'll trust Christ's teachings over man's. Especially one that can't produce specific scripture that was asked for to back up what they're talking about. None of the scripture you posted proved there was more than one beast system that produced a mark, image that was worshipped, etc. All scripture clearly points to Revelation 13 which lays that system out and the rest of the scripture coincides with that perfectly. You produced nothing that disproves that. Nothing. Assumptions on your part is not proof.

As I said, we'll see...

Well, in order for your "gospel" is the Gospel of the Bible
you must show the people LIVING BEFORE the 1000 years (when Satan is bound)
are the SAME PEOPLE living DURING the 1000 year period (the people of Rev 20:4)
and they are the SAME PEOPLE living LIVING AFTER Satan is released... in his "Little Season"
The Bible teaches no such thing.


That is CONFLATING beyond belief.
Because we know the people living AFTER Satan is release
are the people living DURING the Great Tribulation of Satan's "Little Season"
(not the Great Commission of the Church Age - the Third Beast)


Let's look at it this way.
We know there are people living during the Great Commission of the Church Age
and we know there are people living during the Great Tribulation
Are they the SAME PEOPLE?


Now... I will give you TWO passages that show the people living
BEFORE Satan is loosened to RULE during his "Little Season".
are the SAME PEOPLE in Rev 20:4


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


The people in Rev 7:1-3 are the SAME PEOPLE in Rev 20:4...
the people living on earth BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit
to RULE during the Great Tribulation of his "Little Season"


Rev 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


The people in Rev 9:4 are the SAME PEOPLE in Rev 20:4...
the people living on earth BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit
to RULE during the Great Tribulation of his "Little Season"


So the BIBLE shows people living BEFORE the Great Tribulation BEGINS
(those are the people living during the Great Commission of the Church Age... before the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 7:3]
These people are shown in Rev 9:4 and Rev 20:4... they are the SAME PEOPLE... living BEFORE Satan is released.


--------------


Now... you say "we shall see"
However, that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bible PROMISES
The Bible PROMISES that knowledge "shall be increased" to the Last Saints (and no others) [Dan 12:4]


The Bible PROMISES that these mysteries (about Daniel's Fourth Beast) would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"
to EVERYONE until the Last Saints "shall understand" during the "Time-of-the-End"


For you to say "we shall see" contradicts the SCRIPTURE that PROMISES only the Last Saints "shall see" (shall understand)


The Bible does not PROMISE (as you indicate) that EVERYONE "shall see" the mysteries that were "sealed"...
the Bible only PROMISES the Last Saints "shall understand"... it PROMISES that NO OTHERS are able to "see" or understand.


I wonder...
How does it feel to say "we shall see"
When the Bible PROMISES that is not possible?


--------


Make no mistake:
When the Lord Returns the Last Saints are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the Great Commission of the Church Age - before the Last Saint is "sealed" [Re 7:3]
and they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Instead, when the Lord Returns the Last Saints are preaching the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies
which JESUS PROMISED they "shall see ALL these things" [Mat 24:33] and they are preaching Biblical mysteries
which GOD PROMISED remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to EVERYONE until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during the period NAMED the "Time-of-the-End"


What Gospel are YOU preaching?
Are you preaching Biblical mysteries that were "sealed"?
No you are not... so you are NOT preaching the Gospel taught when the Lord Returns.


How does that feel?
Are you planning on CHANGING YOUR GOSPEL in the future?
Or do you plan on never being able to "understand" what the Bible
PROMISED the Last Saints "shall understand"?


.

 

[5thKingdom]

You and I, and others as well, see this being relevant, the fact the saints per Revelation 20:4, which had not worshiped his image,

Sir... what about the Saints in Rev 7:3 and Rev 9:4?

These are the SAME SAINTS shown in Rev 20:4

Why do you INTENTIONALLY IGNORE related Scripture?


.

 

[JulieB67]

I don't know what your view of Daniel 7:12 is, but it's pretty clear to me that it is meaning after the little horn is given to the burning flame, where I take that to be involving Revelation 19:20, where I then take that to be involving the 2nd coming of Christ, that the rest of the beasts meant in verse 12, instead of them being given to the burning flame at the time, their lives are prolonged for a season and time. Which then demands that there has to be a period of time following the fulfillment of Revelation 19:20 in order to fulfill Daniel 7:12. The thousand years and satan's little season appears to explain this period of time needed following the 2nd coming.

Yes, I see Daniel 7 as being a blueprint for what goes down in Revelation.

We can clearly see that this,

Daniel 7:11 "I beheld the because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame."

Coincides with this,

Revelation 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a like of fire burning with brimstone."

And I agree, the prolonged season fits with the 1000 years.

 

[JulieB67]

Now... you say "we shall see"
However, that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bible PROMISES
The Bible PROMISES that knowledge "shall be increased" to the Last Saints (and no others) [Dan 12:4]

I mean in the end, we'll see who is right in their knowledge about Revelation 13 beast system being the only one with a mark imposed on the people/image/beast worshipped.

 

[5thKingdom]

this means they are martyred during the era of time this is being enforced, and that they are martyred before satan is loosed from the pit.

Yes.. they were martyred BEFORE Satan was release

The Saints in Rev 20:4 are the SAME SAINTS in Rev 7:3 and the SAME SAINTS that have the "seal" of God in Rev 9:4

Why are you intentionally ignoring RELATED Scriptures?

In order for there to be anyone martyred for refusing to worship his image, the following has to be fufilled first---and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit(Revelation 17:8) .

That is ASSUMING there was not a "Beast" or an "Image" or a "Mark"
during the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom or the (3rd) Christian Kingdom.

That assumption is wrong.

You still cannot tell the DIFFERENCE between Saints in the (3rd) Christian Kingdom BEFORE Satan is released
and Saintd in the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom AFTER Satan is released.

The Bible PROMISES the Last Saints "shall understand" about these different "Beasts"...
Do you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES in Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10?
Why would you REJECT the Word of God?

Except Amils would have us believe that the beast ascends out of the pit when satan does. That contradicts the fact that there are already saints being martyred for refusing to worship the beast, nor it's image, prior to satan ascending out of the pit.

Yes, the Saints refusing to worship the Beast BEFORE Satan is released and the Great Tribulation begins...
see Rev 7:3 and Rev 9:4... these are the same people as Rev 20:4
the people BEFORE Satan is released.

I don't know what your view of Daniel 7:12 is, but it's pretty clear to me that it is meaning after the little horn is given to the burning flame, where I take that to be involving Revelation 19:20, where I then take that to be involving the 2nd coming of Christ,

How silly...
Rev 19:20 does NOT show the Return of Christ... you ADDED that to the text.

Look at Rev 20:10... which happens AFTER Rev 19:20

Try to harmonize THAT into your "gospel"

that the rest of the beasts meant in verse 12, instead of them being given to the burning flame at the time, their lives are prolonged for a season and time. Which then demands that there has to be a period of time following the fulfillment of Revelation 19:20 in order to fulfill Daniel 7:12. The thousand years and satan's little season appears to explain this period of time needed following the 2nd coming.

Except Rev 19:20 is AFTER Satan is released
And Rev 20:10 is AFTER Satan is released


The 1000 years is BEFORE Satan is released


You are having a very hard time with the DIFFERENCE
of BEFORE Satan is released and AFTER he is released.


Here is a hint for you:
AFTER Satan is release the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast BEGINS
Rev 7:1-3 teaches that reality as clear as day... Why do you IGNORE related Scriptures?


Because you are so confused about the chronology
of the THIRD BEAST and the FOURTH BEAST.


Which is very strange because the Bible PROMISES
the Last Saints "shall understand" Daniel's Fourth Beast.


You clearly do not "understand" when you do not even discern
the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happens AFTER Satan is released.


LOL... your "gospel" teaches the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
happens BEFORE Satan is released... DURING the 1000 years.
That is hilarious.


You can see nothing unless/until you understand Daniel's Fourth Beast is shown as
(1) the Revelation Beast
(2) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom"
(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ (Little Horn, False Prophet, Man of Sin)
(4) DURING Satan's "Little Season" AFTER being released from the Pit


If I understand your "gospel" correctly, you think
(1) the Great Commission of the Church Age happens
(2) then the Great Tribulation of the Revelation Beast happens
(3) then the Lord Returns
(4) then Satan is "bound"
(5) then Satan is released...


Please tell me sir...
what happens AFTER Satan is released?


BTW... why would you ever think you could understand the "Season and Time" on earth
(also shown as the "Time-of-the-End") when you cannot DEFINE each "Beast"??? And when the Bible PROMISES
that only the Last Saints "shall understand" about events during the "Time-of-the-End"


You think that contradicting Scripture and conflating the Beasts
indicates some understanding. That is just hilarious.


.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks but I'll stick with Christ's teachings.

Exactly right. Glad you put that in there.

 

[5thKingdom]

And I agree, the prolonged season fits with the 1000 years.

So you agree that events during the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast
happens BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit.

Clearly you do not understand the FOURTH BEAST

Tell me please...
AFTER the Great Tribulation is finished [Rev 19:20]
AFTER Satan is cast into the LOF [Rev 20:10]

How is he then in the Bottomless Pit

You guys are amazing...
You do not even understand the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
can ONLY happen AFTER Satan is released from the Pit

Rev 9:1-2
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Exactly right. Glad you put that in there.

Tell me good sir...

Did Christ teach the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
happens BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit or AFTER?


.

 

[DavidPT]

Well, in order for your "gospel" is the Gospel of the Bible
you must show the people LIVING BEFORE the 1000 years (when Satan is bound)
are the SAME PEOPLE living DURING the 1000 year period (the people of Rev 20:4)
and they are the SAME PEOPLE living LIVING AFTER Satan is released... in his "Little Season"
The Bible teaches no such thing.

To me, if the thousand years are literal, regardless whether one agrees with that or not, and the fact, Adam, a mortal at the time, almost lived an entire thousand years, why would it be unreasonable that after Christ has returned, that any surviving mortals(Zechariah 14:16-19, for example) will be able to live an entire thousand years and then some, meaning they are still alive when satan is loosed from the pit? If that would be unreasonable after Christ has returned, why was it not also unreasonable during the days of Adam, that he almost lived an entire thousand years, and that he did that as a mortal?

Something I have pointed out to other Amils in the past, except my point apparently went over their head, is this.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Assuming the thousand years are meaning in this age, this means these in verse 8, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea, are literally living on the earth in the final days of the thousand years before it transitions into satan's little season. The fact satan deceives them to gather together and battle against the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, this indicates that during the thousand years they are not among any of the saved if after the thousand years they are gathered together to battle the camp of the the saints.

This means that during the thousand years they are among the deceived, the unsaved, not instead among the saved, those not deceived. Which then contradicts this in Revelation 20:3--- that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled. You then end up with satan deceiving someone already deceived rather that someone not deceived or no longer deceived.

If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, and that there are mortal survivors, this would indicate they are deceived at the time, otherwise they would be among the saved, but during the thousand years they are no longer deceived, the fact Christ and His saints are literally bodily governing the entire planet, but then are deceived once again once satan is loosed. So instead of satan deceiving someone already deceived at the time, as is the case per Amil, satan deceives someone no longer deceived at the time, as is the case per Premil, or at least my version of it. Some other Premils might not agree, which is fine if they choose not to.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
Now... you say "we shall see"
However, that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bible PROMISES
The Bible PROMISES that knowledge "shall be increased" to the Last Saints (and no others) [Dan 12:4]

I mean in the end, we'll see who is right in their knowledge about Revelation 13 beast system being the only one with a mark imposed on the people/image/beast worshipped.

But the Bible PROMISES that only the Last Saints "shall understand" these things...
how can you say that EVERYONE "shall understand"

Are you saying EVERYONE "shall understand" when they are "cast alive into the Lake of Fire"?
That is the ONLY time your statement could be Biblically valid.
But that is a little too late to do any good.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

To me, if the thousand years are literal, regardless whether one agrees with that or not, and the fact, Adam, a mortal at the time, almost lived an entire thousand years, why would it be unreasonable that after Christ has returned, that any surviving mortals(Zechariah 14:16-19, for example) will be able to live an entire thousand years and then some, meaning they are still alive when satan is loosed from the pit? If that would be unreasonable after Christ has returned, why was it not also unreasonable during the days of Adam, that he almost lived an entire thousand years, and that he did that as a mortal?

But, of course, you have deflected from the subject.
If the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen AFTER Satan is released [see Rev 9:1-2]
then how can Satan be bound in the Pit during that time.

Again, your inability to understand Daniel's Beasts
prevents you from understanding Biblical Truth
about events BEFORE and AFTER Satan's release

Assuming the thousand years are meaning in this age,

But we are to assume NOTHING

Does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen DURING Satan's binding or AFTER?

If you cannot answer this question then you cannot offer an "informed opinion" on the matter...

AND your answer must harmonize with Rev 9:1-2

If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming,

So you are NOT AWARE that AFTER the 2nd coming is the Eternal Kingdom?

AFTER the Beast is destroyed [Rev 19:20] and AFTER Satan is destroyed [Rev 20:10]
then you envision a 1000 year period?

That is hilarious.

READ Rev 9:1-2
The Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happens AFTER Satan is released

In fact, Rev 7:1-3 PROMISES the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
CAN NOT BEGIN until AFTER the Last Saint has been "sealed" (saved)

These are all RELATED PASSAGES that you INTENTIONALLY IGNORE
in order to construct a chronology unknown in Scripture.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Something I have pointed out to other Amils in the past, except my point apparently went over their head, is this.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The question you need to answer is WHEN does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast occur?

BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit... or AFTER he is released?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming,

If the 1000 years are AFTER the 2nd Coming that means


(1) the THIRD BEAST, the Christian "Kingdom" of the Great Commission is completed
and the Last Saint has been "sealed" (saved)... according to Rev 7:1-3 and Rev 9:4


(2) the FOURTH BEAST, the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast / Rule of the Anti-Christ
happens BEFORE Satan is released... but that CONTRADICTS the clear teaching of Rev 9:1-2
During this Fourth Beast the Lord Returns.


(3) Then there is another FIFTH BEAST AFTER the Great Tribulation ends and AFTER the Revelation Beast is destroyed [Rev 19:20]
And this Beast continues for 1000 years. Tell me sir, WHERE in the Bible do you find a "Kingdom" of people
on earth AFTER the Revelation Beast is destroyed? Please provide chapter and verse.


Does the Bible have NO VERSES about these people?
Then clearly this is just your imagination.


(4) Then there is a SIXTH BEAST during the 1000 year period.


(5) Then another SEVENTH BEAST after the 1000 year period... during Satan's "Little Season"...


The Bible is clear [Dan 7] there are ONLY Four Beasts in the History of Man.
You have imagined SEVEN Beasts... which is the result of not being able to DEFINE
what each of Daniel's Four Beasts represents.


------


How in the world can you expect to be taken seriously when you cannot even DEFINE
the words you use? You do not even understand what the term "Beast" represents...
Which, of course, contradicts what the Bible PROMISES about the Last Saints.


The problem with your eschatology is simple:
You do not understand the Fourth Beast = the Great Tribulation = the Revelation Beast = Satan's "Little Season"
That is a critical error.


Make no mistake... each "Beast" consists of PEOPLE.
Your job (in Bible Study) is to tell the DIFFERENCE between each "Beast"... each group of persons
living on earth during Daniel's FOUR (not 7) "Beasts"


BTW... I have never heard of your theory of Biblical chronology of 7 Beasts before...
Is this a NEW TEACHING? When was the theory of 7 Beasts developed? And by WHO?


Do you claim this is part of the NEW INFORMATION that remained "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" during the "Time-of-the-End"?
[Dan 12:8-10]


.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Tell me good sir...

Did Christ teach the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
happens BEFORE Satan is released from the Pit or AFTER?


.

Thanks for considering me worthy of your time. But I have no desire to play in your weeds. You get to win your argument by default.

 

[5thKingdom]

Thanks for considering me worthy of your time. But I have no desire to play in your weeds. You get to win your argument by default.

Well it is not a game and we are not in weeds.
We are talking about what SCRIPTURE teaches,
what harmonizes with Scripture and what does not.
That is the JOB of each Saint to discern and teach.

.

 

[JulieB67]

how can you say that EVERYONE "shall understand"

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that. Read my post again. I said we'll see who is right about there being more than one beast system that has an image to be worshipped and a mark put upon the people.

 

[DavidPT]

Does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen DURING Satan's binding or AFTER?

If you cannot answer this question then you cannot offer an "informed opinion" on the matter...

AND your answer must harmonize with Rev 9:1-2

Why only two options rather than 3? As if I'm going to choose one of those 2 options because there is not another option. Except there is another option---Does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen BEFORE, DURING, or AFTER Satan's binding?


Answer: BEFORE.


Obviously, you yourself don't think this harmonizes with Revelation 9:1-2, because you, without a shred of proof, insist satan ascends out of the pit when it is opened during the 5th trumpet. That is adding to the text something not even remotely stated in the text. Nowhere in Revelation 9 does it say that satan ascends out of the pit when it is opened. But let's just pretend you are correct, regardless. How then do you explain that the reasons satan is loosed from the pit is not matching the reasons the pit is opened during the 5th trumpet?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Versus....

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them

Yeah, right! What I have underlined in Revelation 9 is undeniably involving going out to deceive the nations. Clearly, the reasons the pit is opened per the 5th trumpet is not the reasons it is opened per Revelation 20 after the thousand years. Notice in Revelation 20 who satan is wanting to attack--- the camp of the saints, and the beloved city

Notice in Revelation 9 who the locusts are wanting to attack, in order to torment----those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Obviously, anyone who does not have the seal of God in their foreheads, would not be of the camp of saints, they would be of satan's camp. Except Revelation 20 does not say satan is loosed in order to attack his own camp, he is loosed in order to attack the camp of the saints.

 

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
how can you say that EVERYONE "shall understand"


Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that. Read my post again.
I said we'll see who is right about there being more than one beast system that
has an image to be worshipped and a mark put upon the people.


OK... fair enough.
I assumed "we shall see" meant EVERYONE
But you did not mean everyone... so WHO is "we"?


/