Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Bob S]

Were not the feast days sabbaths? What other days were Sabbaths? Answer: none except for the weekly Sabbath. God commanded all the Israelites to keep all of the Sabbaths. Please explain why the eight feast Sabbaths are not included along with the weekly Sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

___________________________

I think the difficulty comes in trying to reconcile the teaching you put forward with the entire Bible.

I know you like to talk scripture, and so do I. Post #574 contains a law, or several laws. Do you find yourself following it to the letter?

You mean the part that God said His Sabbath would be eternal covenant, which means forever Exodus 31:16 and we see that promised fulfilled for eternity as being the Lord’s chosen day of worship? Isaiah 66:23. The problem appears to be when one puts their opinions as equal to the clear Word of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Except Colossians 2:16, the decision in Acts not to burden the Gentiles or the fact that we are in a new covenant.

Shalom

God’s Sabbath is not burdensome. It is holy, blessed and sanctified according to God and the day of worship for those saved for eternity. Genesis 2:1-3, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 Isaiah 66:23. I don’t consider making the seventh day Sabbath the day this is supposed to be about doing the ways of God to be burdensome. Instead it’s a blessing, just like the promise of scriptures. Isaiah 58:13-14

 

[Leaf473]

You mean the part that God said His Sabbath would be eternal covenant, which means forever Exodus 31:16 and we see that promised fulfilled for eternity as being the Lord’s chosen day of worship? Isaiah 66:23. The problem appears to be one one puts their opinions as equal to the clear Word of God.

I don't think it's about opinions. I think we both want to make all the scriptures fit together.

I hear what you're saying about the Sabbath in Exodus and Isaiah.

Then we come to Deuteronomy 26 which has an interesting tithing law. I don't know of anyone who keeps it to the letter except maybe some highly observant Jewish people.

If we don't keep that law to the letter, it seems reasonable to me that we wouldn't keep the letters of the other laws as well.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think it's about opinions. I think we both want to make all the scriptures fit together.

I hear what you're saying about the Sabbath in Exodus and Isaiah.

Then we come to Deuteronomy 26 which has an interesting tithing law. I don't know of anyone who keeps it to the letter except maybe some highly observant Jewish people.

If we don't keep that law to the letter, it seems reasonable to me that we wouldn't keep the letters of the other laws as well.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

Deut 26 has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. But I see a lot of people going out of their way to disprove something God made so clear. He not only wrote it with His own finger, Exodus 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice and its the one commandment God said “remember” Exodus 20:8 so for me I am sticking with the scripture. We have free will and will all find out soon enough. According to scripture though the Sabbath is not going anywhere Isaiah 66:23, just like God promised. Hard to argue in my opinion with ‘thus saith the Lord’ but people still try.

 

[Leaf473]

Deut 26 has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. But I see a lot of people going out of their way to disprove something God made so clear. He not only wrote it with His own finger, Exodus 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice and its the one commandment God said “remember” Exodus 20:8 so for me I am sticking with the scripture. We have free will and will all find out soon enough. According to scripture though the Sabbath is not going anywhere Isaiah 66:23, just like God promised. Hard to argue in my opinion with ‘thus saith the Lord’ but people still try.

That's right, Deuteronomy 26 isn't about the Sabbath, it's about tithing. As a tithing law, my impression was that you considered it an eternal law. That would mean we keep both the letter and the spirit of it. Or did I misunderstand you?

But if we don't keep the letter of Deuteronomy 26, then we wouldn't have to keep the letters of the other laws either, to be consistent in our approach to scriptures.

And that's why I'm not arguing with the Sabbath, just how we go about keeping it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's right, Deuteronomy 26 isn't about the Sabbath, it's about tithing. As a tithing law, my impression was that you considered it an eternal law. That would mean we keep both the letter and the spirit of it. Or did I misunderstand you?

But if we don't keep the letter of Deuteronomy 26, then we wouldn't have to keep the letters of the other laws either, to be consistent in our approach to scriptures.

And that's why why I'm not arguing with the Sabbath, just how we go about keeping it.

I think Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 66:23 tells us how to keep it pretty clearly imo with Jesus as our example. Luke 4:16-22

Take care.

 

[Leaf473]

I think Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 66:23 tells us how to keep it pretty clearly imo with Jesus as our example. Luke 4:16-22

Take care.

But the approach is inconsistent. Are you able to understand what I see as inconsistent, even if you don't agree?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But the approach is inconsistent. Are you able to understand what I see as inconsistent, even if you don't agree?

There is no inconsistencies in scripture, so it’s a matter of do you believe God when He wrote His holy law that is eternal or are you going to look for circumstantial evidence that never clearly says you can break the Ten Commandments. I prefer the clear Word of God. Blessed are those who do His commandments one of the last scriptures in the Bible and the warning of the commandment breakers that are outside. Revelation 22:14-15. For me, obeying His commandments including the Sabbath is a blessing and if it is good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for everyone.

 

[Leaf473]

There is no inconsistencies in scripture, so it’s a matter of do you believe God when He wrote His holy law that is eternal or are you going to look for circumstantial evidence that never clearly says you can break the Ten Commandments. I prefer the clear Word of God. Blessed are those who do His commandments one of the last scriptures in the Bible and the warning of the commandment breakers that are outside. Revelation 22:14-15. For me, obeying His commandments including the Sabbath is a blessing and if it is good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for everyone.

It's not about inconsistencies in scripture, it's about inconsistencies in how we approach the scriptures.

Is there a scripture that clearly says you can break the letters of Deuteronomy 26?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's not about inconsistencies in scripture, it's about inconsistencies in how we approach the scriptures.

Is there a scripture that clearly says you can break the letters of Deuteronomy 26?

Scriptures seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Leaf473]

Scriptures seems pretty clear to me.

I gather from your response that you don't want to talk about this anymore with me.

If that's the case, then Peace be with you, my sister!

 

[guevaraj]

Why was it legal for Jesus to work on the Sabbath day?

Brother, happy Sabbath! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". This is important in Genesis with the word we translate as "evening". God defines His own words and is not limited to human definitions. So Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath. Jesus tells us next the law allows good works on the Sabbath.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

How can we see this in the written law? One way is for God not to be a part of our household! Jesus resided in the earthly temple prior to His incarnation and death. The earthly temple "copy" was a stand-in for the true temple in heaven where He daily forgives our sins from heaven after His death. We can work for God who is not part of our household. In fact, no household could contain Him.

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". This is important in Genesis with the word we translate as "evening". God defines His own words and is not limited to human definitions. So Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath. Jesus tells us next the law allows good works on the Sabbath.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

How can we see this in the written law? One way is for God not to be a part of our household! Jesus resided in the earthly temple prior to His incarnation and death. The earthly temple "copy" was a stand-in for the true temple in heaven where He daily forgives our sins from heaven after His death. We can work for God who is not part of our household. In fact, no household could contain Him.

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NLT)
​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

It was legal for Jesus to work on that day, because He is a High Priest.

All New Covenant believers are a member of the priesthood in the passage below.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


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[Leaf473]

Did this law end at the cross? I'd say Yes.

Deuteronomy 23 He who is emasculated by crushing or cutting shall not enter into the Lord’s assembly.

 

[Leaf473]

This is in response to post #35 here
How do you keep the Sabbath Holy?

The issue that I see with saying that the Sabbath as described in Exodus 20 didn't end at the cross is that the same reasoning would make a whole lot of other laws apply as well.

Does the law say to remember the Sabbath? Yes.
Is it ever rescinded? No.

Seems pretty airtight.

But does the law say that no one who is emasculated can enter the Lord's assembly? Yes.
Is it ever rescinded? No.

So it's the same story with both laws imo.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is in response to post #35 here
How do you keep the Sabbath Holy?

The issue that I see with saying that the Sabbath as described in Exodus 20 didn't end at the cross is that the same reasoning would make a whole lot of other laws apply as well.

Does the law say to remember the Sabbath? Yes.
Is it ever rescinded? No.

Seems pretty airtight.

But does the law say that no one who is emasculated can enter the Lord's assembly? Yes.
Is it ever rescinded? No.

So it's the same story with both laws imo.

God said "Remember the Sabbath to keep in holy Exodus 20:9. The role of the Sabbath has not changed from OT to NT, it is the only day God claimed as His holy day and its illogical to think God wants us to keep holy a different day than the day that is holy to Him (hence why there is no scripture), the seventh day Sabbath is the day God blessed and sanctified. We are made in His image and are to follow His example. God made all other days working days Exodus 20:9 and only one day holy, blessed, sanctified Exodus 2:8-11, Genesis 2:1-3 and a day of holy convocation Leviticus 23:3 and a commandment of God written by His own finger, which is why the Sabath continues to be the Lord's chosen day of worship for all eternity. Isaiah 66:22-23 and not a "new day".

 

[Leaf473]

God said "Remember the Sabbath to keep in holy Exodus 20:9. The role of the Sabbath has not changed from OT to NT, it is the only day God claimed as His holy day and its illogical to think God wants us to keep holy a different day than the day that is holy to Him (hence why there is no scripture), the seventh day Sabbath is the day God blessed and sanctified. We are made in His image and are to follow His example. God made all other days working days Exodus 20:9 and only one day holy, blessed, sanctified Exodus 2:8-11, Genesis 2:1-3 and a day of holy convocation Leviticus 23:3 and a commandment of God written by His own finger, which is why the Sabath continues to be the Lord's chosen day of worship for all eternity. Isaiah 66:22-23 and not a "new day".

Yes, it does say that.

And you can respond to this commandment, if you wish.
Deuteronomy 23 He who is emasculated by crushing or cutting shall not enter into the Lord’s assembly.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, it does say that.

And you can respond to this commandment, if you wish.
Deuteronomy 23 He who is emasculated by crushing or cutting shall not enter into the Lord’s assembly.

leaf, I think this is a good example of why we never make any progress. You only quote a part of the commandment and instead of addressing the post or the fact you micro-quoted what God said thus changing the meaning of the commandment, you just try to find some other scripture that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

This scripture is referring to those who want to be part of Israel and not about accidental injuries not being allowed in.

If you want to keep going OT that's fine, but I may not participate because to me seems like a distraction and a bit going in circles. I wish you all the best though in seeking God's Word!

 

[Leaf473]

leaf, I think this is a good example of why we never make any progress. You only quote a part of the commandment and instead of addressing the post or the fact you micro-quoted what God said thus changing the meaning of the commandment, you just try to find some other scripture that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

This scripture is referring to those who want to be part of Israel and not about accidental injuries not being allowed in.

If you want to keep going OT that's fine, but I may not participate because to me seems like a distraction and a bit going in circles. I wish you all the best though in seeking God's Word!

Here's a larger quote from Deuteronomy 23
He who is emasculated by crushing or cutting shall not enter into the Lord's assembly. 2 A person born of a forbidden union shall not enter into the Lord's assembly; even to the tenth generation shall no one of his enter into the Lord's assembly. 3 An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the Lord's assembly; even to the tenth generation shall no one belonging to them enter into the Lord's assembly forever, 4 because they didn’t meet you with bread and with water on the way when you came out of Egypt, and because they hired against you Balaam the son of Beor from Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse you. 5 Nevertheless the Lord your God wouldn’t listen to Balaam, but the Lord your God turned the curse into a blessing to you, because the Lord your God loved you. 6 You shall not seek their peace nor their prosperity all your days forever. 7 You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you lived as a foreigner in his land. 8 The children of the third generation who are born to them may enter into the Lord's assembly.

In the Septuagint, that word Assembly is the same word used for Church in the New Testament.

So I think this relates to what we're talking about.

The text doesn't say anything about accidents. It could explain why Daniel doesn't return to Jerusalem to celebrate the festivals as the law commands.

The same reasoning used for Exodus 20 would also apply to Deuteronomy 23. So to me it makes sense to keep both or keep neither.