Salvation vs : service.

[setst777]

Yes, God accepts our faith to then give us the New Birth.
See that 'new Birth"?
That is when a person becomes a "new Creation"......its by Spiritual Birth.
That is how you become a CHRISTian.

Jesus said...>'you must be born again".

Thats the Spiritual NEW BIRTH, and WATER can't cause that to happen.
God causes that to happen by causing a person's spirit to be BORN AGAIN.....Into God's Holy Spirit, by God's Holy Spirit.

If you mean that Born Again is to be a disciple of Lord Jesus, obeying all things He commands of you, then you are correct.

What is a Christian?

A Christians is a disciple of Lord Jesus

Acts 11:26 (ESV) And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

In the New Testament, a disciple is a follower of Lord Jesus, obeying all things He commands of us.

Matthew 28:19-20 (ESV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe (obey) all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Christian = Disciple

If you are not a disciple of Lord Jesus, following Him, you are NOT a Christian.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you mean that Born Again is to be a disciple of Lord Jesus, obeying all things He commands of you, then you are correct.

What is a Christian?

A Christians is a disciple of Lord Jesus

Acts 11:26 (ESV) And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

In the New Testament, a disciple is a follower of Lord Jesus, obeying all things He commands of us.

Matthew 28:19-20 (ESV)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe (obey) all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Christian = Disciple

If you are not a disciple of Lord Jesus, following Him, you are NOT a Christian.

Amen the Greek word Christianos literally means follower of Christ.

 

[apollosdtr]

It means you should seriously think about not quoting the people
who still keep the gospel preached before the cross. Matthew 28:18-20.

Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament.

"Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament."
... still has followers who base their posts on John?

This does not make any sense to anyone but you.
Listen, if there is no Cross, there is no Gospel to be given, that you are to BELIEVE.
All you had before the Cross was Moses Law and commandments.
The "Sermon on the Mouth" has no Christ on the Cross, so that isn't the "Gospel" that Paul teaches as "my Gospel", in the "Time of the Gentiles".

Sidon said
"All you had before the Cross was Moses Law and commandments.
The "Sermon on the Mouth" has no Christ on the Cross, so that isn't the "Gospel" that Paul teaches as "my Gospel", in the "Time of the Gentiles"."

Thank you.
Does "Moses Law and commandments" include the "sermon on the mount"?
Law = commandments, so you must mean Jesus' commandments, correct?

I base my posts/Threads on Christ as the Savior, and the Cross as the method.
= "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness".
"Justification by Faith.......Faith IS counted AS Righteousness"..
"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as Righteousness".
Paul teaches that "Abraham is the father of our Faith".

Galatians 2:7-9

Not really, no. Because your posts are only your interpretation. You don't seem to feel the need to actually quote the words of God, because you don't seem to understand that the words themselves in their context are the things that matter. What you think about those words only matter to you. Nobody in their right mind is following a human who teaches for doctrines the commandments of men.

James 2:21-24, Kingdom Gospel

All the apostles preached, "Christ on the Cross", as Salvation.
Its all the same "gospel", because it only Credits God on the Cross as THE WAY.
John 14:6

If you want water baptism or commandment keeping as how John the Baptist and Moses offered under the old covenant, = as what can't cause God to accept you, then go with them.

"All the apostles" couldn't preach what hadn't happened yet.
Matthew 28:18-20 says that they taught what Jesus taught.

The Way of the Resurrection

John 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither Thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

____________________________________
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 4:17, Matthew 4:23, Matthew 28:18-20

 

[apollosdtr]

What does "lift up the Cross" signify? Do you want people to make idols?
And what does "Give GLORY to the Blood of JESUS" mean?

Thank you for the questions.

It means that Eternal Salvation is God's Blood shed as Christ on The Cross, and to give FULL CREDIT to this alone, for Eternal Redemption, is to impart the respect The Cross commands and demands.
All who will not, are "enemies of the Cross" , based on their refusing to give full credit due.... to God and Christ ALONE.... for what was accomplished by the BLood of GOD... on the Cross as : Salvation.

Jesus said...."i am THE way"...."to THE Father", and that "way' is the Cross of Christ.
All who try to give credit to any other "way"....such as commandment keeping or "enduring to the end" or any other "way" to God, are contradicting the Cross of Christ and this defines them to be : an "enemy of the Cross".

To "lift up the Cross and give glory to the Blood of God", is to NOT do that, but instead give all credit DUE the Cross, as God's only means of Redemption for the world.

John 3:16

So what you're saying is that Jesus is an "enemy of the cross"?
Commandment keeping is what Jesus says. John 14:21 Revelation 14:12
And enduring to the end is what Jesus says. Matthew 10:22 Matthew 24:13-14

-
His ministers are "ministers of RIGHTEOUSNESS">
What does that mean?
It means they talk about God and Christ and teach works, law and commandment keeping, in place of God's "gift of Salvation".

Find out if they teach the Devil's Gospel of .. The Cross + WORKS
When you see them write this false gospel, or you hear them ALL preach it, you have found a : DARK LIGHT.

Galatians 2:7-9

Are you saying that Jesus' 11 are what 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 says?
Because the 11 are definitely commandment keepers, according to...
Matthew 5:19-20, John 8:51, John 14:21, John 15:10,
1 John 2:4, Revelation 3:8-10, Revelation 14:12, etc.
and also John 17:20 people who believe the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.KJV

 

[apollosdtr]

You should try that.
Just look in the mirror.
When you get finished with that honest self analysis, then go directly to my many Threads, and find your way home.
Thats on you.

John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

 

[apollosdtr]

I teach Pauline Theology.
Your theology of self saving can't "destroy" it.
Believe it.
See, the Grace of God as the Cross of Christ was the Truth before you showed up, and it'll still be the same once you and I are not around.
The difference is, i was teaching it and preaching it while i was HERE.

So, if you can't understand my 40 + Threads, and the fact that ive posted more answers to you than to any other member here.....DAILY.....

Is this "self saving" you're talking about?
Matthew 5:19-20, John 14:21, 1 John 2:4

Says the person that teaches that we can reject Christ and we will still be saved. That’s the biggest “surely you will not die” deception I’ve ever heard of.

John 12:48-50

You just posted another lie.
Listen....you can't "reject Christ" and be saved.
You have to believe in Jesus to be saved.
Didn't you know?

"all that call on the name of Jesus (believe) shall be saved".

1 Corinthians 1:2 ... is that the verse you're quoting?

 

[apollosdtr]

Romans says nothing about born again in that verse... or in any other.
Even Paul went on the warpath with his students a time or twenty, when they were sleeping with their mother-in-laws, etc. So I'm doubting any Bible version says what you're saying.

Here it is in the King James Version, with enough context so we know what Paul's quoting from:

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.KJV

Which is this Psalm right here:

Psalms 32:1-3 Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, and who sins are covered. 2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin, and whose mouth there is no guile. 3 Because I kept silence, my bones waxed old, from my crying all the day. 4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: I became thoroughly miserable while a thorn was fastened in me. 5 I acknowledged my sin, and hid not mine iniquity: I said, I will confess mine iniquity to the Lord against myself; and thou forgavest the ungodliness of my heart. 6 Therefore shall every holy one pray to thee in a fit time: only in the deluge of many waters they shall not come nigh to him. 7 Thou art my refuge from the affliction that encompasses me; my joy, to deliver me from them that have compassed me.LXX

Obviously Paul didn't expect you not to find and read the verse he quoted.
David says he confessed his sin to God, and only then did God forgive him.

The Gospel is Paul teaching "born again".
Im not surprised you dont know this....

Also, yes, Romans 4:8 teaches what David saw prophetically.
That's true.
It came true, as all the prophecies do, or will.

I'm surprised you think Paul actually used the words "born again"... are you too busy to look anything up? John and Peter actually wrote down those words, not Paul.

David didn't see it prophetically, it happened to David because of Bathsheba.
Paul applied part of Psalms 32 as a prototype, or something, apparently.

 

[apollosdtr]

Please dont play the role of the dishonest person, who comes to a "christian forum" and pretends that all the sin you have confessed, s was all an "accident" that you didn't mean to do.
Dont do that.
Dont commit that lie in pubic., Bnr32fan.
As is you play that liar's role, you have just lied, and you did it "willfully".. in public.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

Yes, Jesus lifted up Himself,

I quoted John 8:10 at you because you were busy acusing someone who seems to be an honest person. I could have said, Drop the rock and back away...

What Paul teaches is not my opinion., it is in fact, the Gospel.
Its what i teach.

See, to be born again, is very specific., and once you are, you have become "in Christ".

Where does "Paul teach" "born again", Sidon?
Book, Chapter and Verse, please.

Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter Heaven only those who do the will of My Father may enter.

Some of them will be called anomia.

You feel then that lying about my answers is better then quoting them.
Yes, i agree.

Also,
your....."everyone here"......= Ligurian, and stset777.
The 3 forum hyper-legalists, as proven by every post that denies God's Grace and tries to flip it into self effort to stay saved.
JUDE has quite a bit to say about you 3., as does Paul, as do I.

You 3 make me smile, because of all the good you do for those who see how you think and notice what you teach, that so contradicts the Grace of God.

Thanks for continuing to being useful , in this regard.

Hyper-legalist must mean John 15:10 people to Sidon.

Yes what Paul teaches is not what you teach tho.

Listen.
Before i came to this Forum.... the term "Pauline Theology" was not even in your brain cells.
I put it there.

What you need to do, is just begin to allow your heart to hear.
You dont allow this, because you are only concerned with arguing and trying to prove, what can't be proven.
If you can stop that carnality, then God can reveal to you, what you have not yet known.

And they were probably happy people, back in the day.
Nobody's heart needs to hear Bible commentary instead of the Bible.

Look instead of me having to go back and copy & paste a bunch of posts let’s just settle this with one simple question. If a person who has been born again turns away from Christ and does not repent is he still saved?

To enter heaven.....is the same thing as being "Born again", into the Spirit of God.
All the born again, are already "One with God", in Christ".
You should try to realize where they are located.
They are located where the born again are located, Spiritually, as "Born again".
The Kingdom of God.
Where is that?
Right......
See it?

This is why the NT says the born again are "ONE with GOD" and "seated in heavenly places IN Christ".

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Peter was always the one that needed to be corrected.
Paul had to rebuke him harshly in public once, so that Peter got the message, clearly.

Peter wasn't under Paul's authority or gospel, according to Galatians 2:7-9.
Must've been one of those "my house, my rules" situations. Galatians 2:11
Two males in the same house, with two different gospels... that was a pecking contest. Peter never wrote his side of the story, or it never got into canon.

Because of John, we know that Peter really kept what Jesus taught him because Peter's a martyr. John 21:18-19 Because we know for a fact Jesus told the 11 specifically what to teach. Matthew 28:18-20 And so we know what the Lost Sheep believe, too. John 17:20

John 21:18-19 This spake He, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He saith unto him, Follow Me.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them... 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;

John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Psalm 27]

In “Jude 24” who is the “us/them” and “you" that God is able to keep from stumbling?

Jude is writing to believers.

“To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:” v1

it would be highly unlikely that an unbeliever would come across that verse, either then or now...
The Lord God-Jesus, is able to keep the believer from stumbling-He ‘takes away’ the sin(s) of the world. Makes it anathema.

Abiding outside of Him isn’t really up for debate.

 

[setst777]

Jude is writing to believers.

“To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:” v1

it would be highly unlikely that an unbeliever would come across that verse, either then or now...
The Lord God-Jesus, is able to keep the believer from stumbling-He ‘takes away’ the sin(s) of the world. Makes it anathema.

Abiding outside of Him isn’t really up for debate.

Yes, Jude is writing to believers in Lord Jesus.

To believe is not a one time action, but you are to continue believing.

So, in “Jude 24,” the “us/them” and “you" that God is able to keep from stumbling are the believers.

The believers are the ones who are commanded by Jude to keep themselves in God's love.

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

• "Keep yourselves in God's love" is a command to those who believe.
• The believer is responsible to keep himself in God's love.

Those who believe are to demonstrate their faith by keeping themselves in God's love. As we demonstrate our faith by keeping ourselves in God's Love, God is able to keep these faithful ones from falling.

So, who are the ones that God is able to keep from falling?

The answer:

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life

Does God guarantee that a believer will keep himself in God's love? No such Scripture exists.

YOU (Christian, believer, disciple) are responsible to follow the command to remain in Lord Jesus by faithfully obeying HIM. This is the Faith we are responsible for before God, in which, God is able to keep us from falling.

How do we (the believers) keep ourselves, or remain, in God's love?

John 15:9-10 (WEB)
9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain (abide) in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain (abide) in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain (abide) in his love.

Therefore, as we (the believers) keep ourselves in God’s love by faithfully following Lord Jesus, obeying Him, God is able to keep us from stumbling.

God gives the believer the victory. A believer is one who follows Lord Jesus by living and walking by His Spirit who indwells us by faith. These are the ones the Spirit leads to victory over sin.

Romans 8:12-14 (WEB)
12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

 

[fhansen]

Somehow "commandment keeping won't save you", gets mistranslated as "you shouldn't keep commandments".

It commonly gets translated as, “you don’t need to keep the commandments”.

When we understand the following points, we better understand the gospel:
*We are not under the law
*We are not free to break the law

We’re still obligated to be righteous, to fulfill the law: the commandments that only reflect righteousness anyway, but fulfill it the right way now, by the Spirit, under grace, not by the Letter, not under the law, by self-effort. To put it another way, when we understand why Paul includes Rom 13:9-10,
“The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed upin this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

then the meaning of Rom 2:13 becomes quite clear:
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.”

Obedience born of love is the goal of our faith. Adam didn’t want obedience, and couldn’t yet find that capability and desire within himself. Love gives us the reason and the way. We’re here to learn of our need for that love, of our need for God.

To put it better, love is the goal of God for us-and a work of His in us. Obedience is just a natural side-effect. Disobedience of any of His commandments, beginning with the first one in Eden, only shows that we don't yet love-or love fully, perfectly. And we don't love Him because we don't know Him and we don't know Him because we fail to even believe in Him to begin with. Adam disbelieved God, not recognizing His godhood. The first step in coming to love God is to believe in Him again, and Jesus gives us all we need to begin to do just that.

 

[apollosdtr]

Jude is writing to believers.

“To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:” v1

it would be highly unlikely that an unbeliever would come across that verse, either then or now...
The Lord God-Jesus, is able to keep the believer from stumbling-He ‘takes away’ the sin(s) of the world. Makes it anathema.

Abiding outside of Him isn’t really up for debate.

Jude seems to have read Paul's letters or at least heard of them Jude 1:15. And it seems like Paul heard from people like Jude. Otherwise we wouldn't see the complaints from both sides about apparently different gospels being promoted. Paul says something like Let us sin that grace may abound is reported of them. And Jude says grace has been turned into a license to sin which is what that Corinthian having his father's wife would be. James does the same thing, almost replying directly to Paul's sayings about one God and the faith without works that Paul's gospel teaches. And anathema is called against the people with a different gospel in Galatia, where Peter says he went in his 1 Peter 1:1. These two gospels were the cause of all in Asia turning from Paul, in my opinion. And I'm not the first person to have ever said any of this. I found it after I started seeing how poorly the two gospels fit together, and went looking for what the ancients said about it, and I realize the literal truth of Galatians 2:7-9.

The real oddity is why Peter never mentioned Rome in his list of travels. It's almost like there were at least three people named Peter.

 

[Sidon]

And yet your the only person refuting our theology in your threads while everyone is refuting your’s.

Not at all.

 

[Sidon]

[
____________
Dear Readers:
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven... which has a different
meaning for unbelief than what seems to be currently tossed at my head.

follow this one. Its Paul's. He calls it "My Gospel".
Research that.

 

[Sidon]

So according to this discussion was I lying when I said that you teach that we can reject Christ and we will still be saved?.

You are not understanding something..

See, after you are born again, there is no "rejecting Christ".
The only time you can reject Christ, is if you have never first believed.
In other words, you have to be an unbeliever..

Once a person is born again, then this is proof that they have NOT rejected Jesus.

See, you cant stop being born again.

 

[Sidon]

I’ve already quoted you teaching that we can sin all we want and still be saved even if we don’t repent.

Now, that is true.
See, we are not saved or kept saved by "repenting".
If that was the case, then "repenting" would be the savior.
We do see that repenting is your savior, as you have trusted in repenting to keep from losing your salvation.
When you actually trust in Christ to keep you saved, the you have finally understood the Cross.

 

[Sidon]

What is a Christian?
A Christians is a disciple of Lord Jesus
.

A "CHRISTian" is someone who has become "ONE with God" In Christ by being born again, spiritually.

A disciple, can be an unbeliever, or a religious but lost person, who is trying to "follow Christ" yet they are not born again.
This is the person that will be told...."Depart, i never KNEW You".

 

[apollosdtr]

Yes, Jude is writing to believers in Lord Jesus.

To believe is not a one time action, but you are to continue believing.

So, in “Jude 24,” the “us/them” and “you" that God is able to keep from stumbling are the believers.

The believers are the ones who are commanded by Jude to keep themselves in God's love.

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

• "Keep yourselves in God's love" is a command to those who believe.
• The believer is responsible to keep himself in God's love.

Those who believe are to demonstrate their faith by keeping themselves in God's love. As we demonstrate our faith by keeping ourselves in God's Love, God is able to keep these faithful ones from falling.

So, who are the ones that God is able to keep from falling?

The answer:

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life

Does God guarantee that a believer will keep himself in God's love? No such Scripture exists.

YOU (Christian, believer, disciple) are responsible to follow the command to remain in Lord Jesus by faithfully obeying HIM. This is the Faith we are responsible for before God, in which, God is able to keep us from falling.

How do we (the believers) keep ourselves, or remain, in God's love?

John 15:9-10 (WEB)
9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain (abide) in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain (abide) in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain (abide) in his love.

Therefore, as we (the believers) keep ourselves in God’s love by faithfully following Lord Jesus, obeying Him, God is able to keep us from stumbling.

God gives the believer the victory. A believer is one who follows Lord Jesus by living and walking by His Spirit who indwells us by faith. These are the ones the Spirit leads to victory over sin.

Romans 8:12-14 (WEB)
12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

I can't get my head around most of Paul's sayings. In many cases, he seems to contradict himself. He acts like he's a slave to sin, but calls the law bondage. He says Hagar represents the law, and Sarah is free.

But Sarah was under the law. And Jesus says keeping the law frees us from sin, just like James also says... which I can wrap my head around and actually do.

Two very different gospels Galatians 2:7-9, Romans 7:24, John 12:50.

 

[Sidon]

"
Thank you.
Does "Moses Law and commandments" include the "sermon on the mount"?
Law = commandments, so you must mean Jesus' commandments, correct?
Not really, no. Because your posts are only your interpretation. You don't seem to feel the need to actually quote the words of God,

I quote a lot of verses.

Now lets look at your questions.

"""""Does "Moses Law and commandments" include the "sermon on the mount"?
Law = commandments, so you must mean Jesus' commandments, correct?"""""


Well, you have the 10 commandments that Moses gave the Jews.
Then you have Jesus talking to Jews about commandments.
All of this is old covenant, as explained by this verse.

"The law came by moses, and Grace and Truth came BY Jesus Christ".



""""""""" Because your posts are only your interpretation. You don't seem to feel the need to actually quote the words of God,"""""""""""


I only teach Pauline Theology, not my opinion.

 

[Sidon]

So what you're saying is that Jesus is an "enemy of the cross"?

As i have explained in 2 Threads that define the ministers of Satan.....is a person who is trying to add to the Cross their gospel of works......or they diminish the finished work of Jesus by teaching that this completed blood atonement, is not all there is to Salvation.

So, its the theologically adding to, or taking from, what Christ said, is "finished", that defines the dark lights, or as you rightly defined them, the "enemies of the Cross".