Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[Dan Perez]

You can't have it both ways, maintaining that the choice is predetermined while maintaining that it's free.

And I know that. Eph 1:4 will help !!

Just. as HE CHOSE // ELECTED US for. Himself. in. Himself. in. Him. BEFORE //. PRO , the OVER THROW of the World (. even

before the book of Genius was written , for us to be. holy. and without. blemish. BEFORE. // PRO. , Him. in love with!!

dan p

 

[Clare73]

That's the point; that's what Jesus came to reveal: there is no salvation apart from God.

The Jews did not think there was any salvation apart from God.

Jesus said he came to die as a ransom (Mt 20:28), and to reveal there was no salvation apart from faith in him (Jn 3:18).

 

[fhansen]

The Jews did not think there was any salvation apart from God.

Jesus said he came to die as a ransom (Mt 20:28), and to reveal there was no salvation apart from faith in him (Jn 3:18).

I'm not even sure how they defined salvation, but in any case they were right, there is no salvation apart from God.

 

[Clare73]

I'm not even sure how they defined salvation, but in any case they were right, there is no salvation apart from God.

Not to be confused with faith in God which does not save, as is the case with Orthodox Jews (Jn 3:18).

 

[fhansen]

Not to be confused with faith in God which does not save, as is the case with Orthodox Jews (Jn 3:18).

Faith in God is what Abraham had-and it pleased God because, for one thing, few if any others actually had it. Acknowledgment of, belief in, trust in, reliance upon God and not ourselves is what Christianity is all about: God's way as opposed to Adam's way. Faith makes us His as it establishes that vital union that we were created for. And that state or relationship, now with Him is what defines man's justice or righteousness. while alienation from Him is the heart of our unrighteousness.

 

[Clare73]

Faith in God is what Abraham had-

Abdaham believed the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), and that belief in the promise was credited to him as righteousness (Ge 15:6).

and it pleased God because, for one thing, few if any others actually had it. Acknowledgment of, faith in, trust in, reliance upon God and not ourselves is what Christianity is all about:

According to the NT, Christianity is all about Christ, his atoning work (Ro 3:25) and our redemption through faith in Christ (Eph 2:8-9).

God's way as opposed to Adam's way. Faith makes us His as it establishes that vital union that we were created for. And that state or relationship, now with Him is what defines man's justice or righteousness. while alienation frnom Him is the heart of our unrighteousness.

Only faith in Jesus Christ redeems from God's condemnation of all mankind (Jn 3:18).
Faith in God does not, or Orthodox Jews who deny Jesus Christ would not be condemned (Jn 3:18).

 

[fhansen]

Abdaham believed the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), and that belief in the promise was credited to him as righteousness (Ge 15:6).

No, Abraham believed God, without knowing the details or specifics let alone knowing Christ, the Seed, and it was credited to him as righteousness That was plenty enough at that point. God would do as He promised.

According to the NT, Christianity is all about Christ, his atoning work (Ro 3:25) and our redemption through faith in Christ (Eph 2:8-9

According to the NT your faith in Christ is faith in God-the whole point is to get to, or back to, Him.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. John 14:6-9

Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Pet 1:21

 

[Clare73]

No, Abraham believed God, without knowing the details or specifics

Yes, Abraham believed God's promise. . .and Abraham's faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) was counted by God as faith in Christ, as it was in all Jacob's descendants.
OT salvation was by faith in the promise (Jesus Christ), while
NT salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ (the promise).

Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Pet 1:21

Yes, faith in Christ is faith in God, but faith in God is not necessarily faith in Christ; e.g., Orthodox Jews, and, therefore, faith in God does not necessarily save, unless that faith includes faith in Christ (Jn 3:18).

Christ died as a ransom payment (Mt 20:28) for the remission of sin, which remission is accessed only through faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18) and his atoning work (Ro 3:25).
That is the gospel.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, faith in Christ is faith in God, but faith in God is not necessarily faith in Christ; e.g., Orthodox Jews, and, therefore, faith in God does not necessarily save, unless that faith includes faith in Christ (Jn 3:18).

You downplay the nature of faith. Faith in God was a very rare commodity in humankind. Abraham had no knowledge of the Seed or the role the Seed would play, only that God made a promise about a future crucial plan regarding it. He simply believed God and that, in itself, made him uniquely pleasing to Him, and makes Abraham a model of our faith. Most others just paid God lip-service, Matt 15:7-9 Is 29:13, Ez 33:31. Remember that the Gentiles were grafted in by faith while the natural branches depended on the law (at best) (Rom 4 and 11).

Faith in God is a game-changer for man and that’s why it’s of such central importance in the new covenant. It reverses the alienation from Him that Adam initiated for man by an act of disobedience which was essentially and simultaneously an act of disbelief. Jesus reveals the true God fully, at the right time in history, so that the many might believe, now drawn by grace, into the life of grace.

If a person sees Jesus and fails to believe in Him, that would constitute unbelief in God. But a person can have faith in God without having seen Jesus, even if a faith less fully informed, which nonetheless renders them just in His eyes. Rom 1, for example, speaks of a faith that should result simply by observing creation, so that none have excuse. So I’m good with the way they read:

“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

“Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.”

Belief in God is what places man into a state of justice.

 

[Clare73]

You downplay the nature of faith.

Actually, it is you who downplays the necessity of faith in Christ, which is the whole purpose of the gospel, and without this faith in Christ one stands condemned (Jn 3:18).

We are born condemned (by imputation of Adam's sin, Ro 5:17-19). . .by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3). . .enemies of God (Ro 5:10).
God has made one way out of that condemnation; i.e., faith in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 5:25, Eph 2:8-9).

Faith in God was a very rare commodity in humankind. Abraham had no knowledge of the Seed or the role the Seed would play, only that God made a promise about a future crucial plan regarding it. He simply believed God and that, in itself, made him uniquely pleasing to Him, and makes Abraham a model of our faith. Most others just paid God lip-service, Matt 15:7-9 Is 29:13, Ez 33:31. Remember that the Gentiles were grafted in by faith while the natural branches depended on the law (at best) (Rom 4 and 11).
Faith in God is a game-changer for man and that’s why it’s of such central importance in the new covenant. It reverses the alienation from Him that Adam initiated for man by an act of disobedience which was essentially and simultaneously an act of disbelief. Jesus reveals the true God fully, at the right time in history, so that the many might believe, now drawn by grace, into the life of grace.
If a person sees Jesus and fails to believe in Him, that would constitute unbelief in God. But a person can have faith in God without having seen Jesus, even if a faith less fully informed, which nonetheless renders them just in His eyes. Rom 1, for example, speaks of a faith that should result simply by observing creation, so that none have excuse. So I’m good with the way they read:

“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Note: "believed God," not believed in God.

Abraham believed (had faith in) God's word, what he said, and faith in what he said (Ge 15:5, promise of Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) was counted as imputed righteousness of faith in Christ.

“Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.”

Belief in God is what places man into a state of justice.

NOT apart from being in Christ by faith. . .there is no true belief in God apart from faith in Christ.

". . .whoever does not believe in God's Son stands condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

How did you get so wrong on this?

Being in Christ (only through faith in him) is pre-eminent in Christianity and salvation, which is why it is called "Christianity" and not called "Gentilism."

You have read Paul, right?. . .who received his doctrine in heaven (2 Co 12:3-4) from Jesus Christ (2 Co 12:7-9, Gal 1:1-12), right?

There is no knowing and salvific believing in God apart from faith in Christ.

". . .whoever does not believe in God's Son stands condemned already." (Jn 3:18)