The Coronavirus Becomes a Battle Cry for U.S. Extremists

[Tanj]

I feel bad for people who assume some kind of pervasive racism underlies everything.

You should stop feeling so sorry for yourself.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You should stop feeling so sorry for yourself.

Lol I wasn't referring to me....I didn't assume racism about the protesters and despite the fact that these activists (funny how they aren't extremists now, isn't it?) are all black and only escorting a black politician....I don't assume they're racist either.

 

[Tanj]

Lol I wasn't referring to me....I didn't assume racism about the protesters and despite the fact that these activists (funny how they aren't extremists now, isn't it?) are all black and only escorting a black politician....I don't assume they're racist either.

Beats me. I don't even know what this thread is about. I just got out of CF quarantine.

 

[FireDragon76]

The Coronavirus Becomes a Battle Cry for U.S. Extremists
Where I'm from, we call those terrorists.

Look at these armed patriots!

But we all know the real threat...

Fear is a great recruiting tool, unfortunately, when preying on the ignorant and uninformed.

 

[FireDragon76]

The irony of this brand of populism is that the leaders tend to be more authoritarian, more corrupt, and more incompetent than the abusive, neglectful elites they’re supposed to replace.

I don't think its real populism at all. People like Trump are supported by billionaires, ultimately, who selfishly desire to squander the public good. The "footsoldiers" are not in charge and trying to reduce this to fit into some kind of account of racial resentment confuses the tactics with the strategy. The strategy is the same old right wing talking point of keeping fearful, divided, and loyal to the old order based on cultural traditionalism and economic kleptocracy. Do not confuse the new window dressing and low-brow looks for the substance.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Beats me. I don't even know what this thread is about. I just got out of CF quarantine.

Is that where you've been? I missed you.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I've been thinking about this a bit more the last couple days and I debated whether or not to start a new thread or just revive this one.

My aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer a couple days ago. I don't know the details of her prognosis, but I'm guessing it's not good; and from what I'm hearing through family, her husband and daughter aren't being allowed in to see her due to all the pandemic restrictions. I can certainly understand why a hospital would take such precautions now (especially considering that they're in northern NJ) but at the same time, it strikes me that there could be ways to accommodate exceptions for certain, more serious, cases such as hers.

Likewise, many businesses around the country are shuttered despite there existing the potential for them to reopen safely under more careful protocols.

I could take the "re-open" crowd a lot more seriously if the main thrust of their argument was "yes, this is dangerous, but we can be smarter about this and do less damage while remaining safe" and their proposals aligned with that goal. That's an intelligent, responsible attitude that would communicate to me that they're really trying to solve a problem. Instead, what we get is this stupid, conspiratorial nonsense about tyranny and freedom, much of which is fueled by outright denialism of the dangers of the pandemic. These folks aren't trying to solve anything; they're just whining about being inconvenienced by something they don't believe is real. It's a lazy attitude that allows them to point the finger at somebody else while offering nothing productive.

 

[FireDragon76]

I've been thinking about this a bit more the last couple days and I debated whether or not to start a new thread or just revive this one.

My aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer a couple days ago. I don't know the details of her prognosis, but I'm guessing it's not good; and from what I'm hearing through family, her husband and daughter aren't being allowed in to see her due to all the pandemic restrictions. I can certainly understand why a hospital would take such precautions now (especially considering that they're in northern NJ) but at the same time, it strikes me that there could be ways to accommodate exceptions for certain, more serious, cases such as hers.

Likewise, many businesses around the country are shuttered despite there existing the potential for them to reopen safely under more careful protocols.

I could take the "re-open" crowd a lot more seriously if the main thrust of their argument was "yes, this is dangerous, but we can be smarter about this and do less damage while remaining safe" and their proposals aligned with that goal. That's an intelligent, responsible attitude that would communicate to me that they're really trying to solve a problem. Instead, what we get is this stupid, conspiratorial nonsense about tyranny and freedom, much of which is fueled by outright denialism of the dangers of the pandemic. These folks aren't trying to solve anything; they're just whining about being inconvenienced by something they don't believe is real. It's a lazy attitude that allows them to point the finger at somebody else while offering nothing productive.

I'm not sure, long term, that much can be done to protect people in nursing homes short of severely locking down the economy for a completely unacceptable period of time. At least, in the absence of reliable, widespread testing. Even one person slipping through with a false negative could infect many people in a nursing home.

 

[Chesterton]

It's not just a battle cry for extremists, they're actually doing battle...against the Constitution. Extremists like the Michigan governor, the NYC mayor, and my mayor and city council who last week dictated that we can't use the words "China" and "virus" in the same sentence under penalty of some unnamed penalization. And of course we're being officially encouraged to rat out our neighbors who engage in any such ungoodspeak.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's not just a battle cry for extremists, they're actually doing battle...against the Constitution. Extremists like the Michigan governor, the NYC mayor, and my mayor and city council who last week dictated that we can't use the words "China" and "virus" in the same sentence under penalty of some unnamed penalization. And of course we're being officially encouraged to rat out our neighbors who engage in any such ungoodspeak.

Yes, God forbid anybody stomp on your right to engage in pointless, unconstructive propaganda while the adults are trying to deal with an emergency.

 

[Chesterton]

Yes, God forbid anybody stomp on your right to engage in pointless, unconstructive propaganda while the adults are trying to deal with an emergency.

What propaganda?

 

[iluvatar5150]

What propaganda?

we can't use the words "China" and "virus" in the same sentence

 

[Chesterton]

Saying the virus originated in China is a fact, not propaganda.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Saying the virus originated in China is a fact, not propaganda.

It can be either or both, depending upon the context in which it's said. If somebody is talking about research into the disease's point of origin or vectors by which it spread, then by all means, mention China. But if you're just willy-nilly using "China" as a thinly-veiled pejorative, then it's more in the camp of propaganda.

If I had to guess, this restriction by your city council doesn't really have anything to do with discussions of epidemiology, does it?

 

[Chesterton]

It can be either or both, depending upon the context in which it's said. If somebody is talking about research into the disease's point of origin or vectors by which it spread, then by all means, mention China. But if you're just willy-nilly using "China" as a thinly-veiled pejorative, then it's more in the camp of propaganda.

You think the word "China" can be used as a pejorative? That sounds kind of racist of you.

If I had to guess, this restriction by your city council doesn't really have anything to do with discussions of epidemiology, does it?

No it doesn't. It has to do with virtue signaling and the flaunting of power which is illegal according to the 1st Amendment.

 

[Tanj]

My aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer a couple days ago. I don't know the details of her prognosis, but I'm guessing it's not good;

There's always exceptions but generally we've almost turned colon cancer from a death sentence to a chronic disease. If she's just been diagnosed and has access to medicine then she's probably got another 4-5 years at least.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not just a battle cry for extremists, they're actually doing battle...against the Constitution. Extremists like the Michigan governor, the NYC mayor, and my mayor and city council who last week dictated that we can't use the words "China" and "virus" in the same sentence under penalty of some unnamed penalization. And of course we're being officially encouraged to rat out our neighbors who engage in any such ungoodspeak.

I don't think that would hold up in a court of law.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It can be either or both, depending upon the context in which it's said. If somebody is talking about research into the disease's point of origin or vectors by which it spread, then by all means, mention China. But if you're just willy-nilly using "China" as a thinly-veiled pejorative, then it's more in the camp of propaganda.

If I had to guess, this restriction by your city council doesn't really have anything to do with discussions of epidemiology, does it?

My guess is that even thinly veiled pejoratives (and I'm not agreeing it is) are completely legal under the 1st amendment.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You think the word "China" can be used as a pejorative?

Sure, just like many other classifications: black, white, Jew, communist, etc. Most anything can be turned into pejorative.

That sounds kind of racist of you.

That sounds pretty disingenuous of you.

No it doesn't. It has to do with virtue signaling and the flaunting of power which is illegal according to the 1st Amendment.

Uh huh. Care to provide some more details on this restriction?

My guess is that even thinly veiled pejoratives (and I'm not agreeing it is) are completely legal under the 1st amendment.

Since he's talking about his town council, my assumption is that they didn't ban the phrasing outright in all contexts throughout society (which would be illegal) but rather within official city communication and/or at town council meetings (which would be perfectly legal).

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure, just like many other classifications: black, white, Jew, communist, etc. Most anything can be turned into pejorative.



That sounds pretty disingenuous of you.



Uh huh. Care to provide some more details on this restriction?



Since he's talking about his town council, my assumption is that they didn't ban the phrasing outright in all contexts throughout society (which would be illegal) but rather within official city communication and/or at town council meetings (which would be perfectly legal).

You sure that's it? It looks like San Antonio, for example, is trying to label use of the words "China virus" as hate speech and have people report it as a possible hate crime.

Ted Cruz says San Antonio's decision to label the term 'Chinese virus' as hate speech is 'nuts'

I don't know where Chesterton lives....but it seemed like a fair example.