Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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I will be sure to read Josephus, but what in Luke or Revelation reflects the events foretold by Zechariah in chapters 12-14?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I was referring to the end of this present world, as in this present world system.
Hello C E.
No such thing as the end of the world............

Olivet Discourse and Revelation...Worldwide Global or Regional

There is a similar thread here, but I decided to create a new thread and adding a Poll
The tribulation will be world wide
=================================
Question.............
Do the events described in Daniel, the Olivet Disourse and Revelation concern the entire Global world or a certain Region in the world.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 “All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end is not yet.
8 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.
These are the beginnings of sorrows.”
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end is not immediate.”
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences;
and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.”
=========================
Luke 21:31 Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing These-things becoming ye are knowing that nigh/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God.

James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

===============================
Revelation 1:1

An unveiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
That the Time is nigh<1451>.
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Hallelujah and Its Hebrew Meaning - Israel Study Center
“Hallelu” (הללו) and “Yah” (יה).


Revelation 19:
1 After these I hear as a great sound of a vast throng in the heaven, saying,
"HalleluYah! the salvation and the glory and the honor, and the power of our God;
2 That true and righteous His judgings, that He judges the great harlot who corrupts the earth in Her whoredom, and avenges<1556> the blood of His bond-servants out of Her hand".
3 And a second time they have declared<4483> "HalleluYah! and the smoke of Her is ascending into the ages of the ages!"
4 And fall the twenty four Elders and the four living-ones,
and they worship to the GOD the One sitting upon the Throne, saying, "Amen! HalleluYah!"
5 And a Voice came out from the Throne saying: "Be ye praising to the GOD of us, all ye bond-servants of Him, and those fearing Him, the small and the great".
6 And I hear as sound of a throng, much, and as a sound of waters, many, and as sound of thunders, strong saying: "HalleluYah! that reigns Lord the God *of-us, the Almighty".
==================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Our Lord now retired to the Mount of Olives, to which place the disciples followed him, in order to make more particular inquiries relative to the time when the calamitous events, foretold by him, would come to pass.

302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg
Maybe the last bowl poured out on Israel is the siege of Masada, the last Jewish Rebel stronghold..........

THE SEVEN BOWLS/VIALS IN REVELATION

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the air<109>
and came out a great voice out of the Sanctuary of the God saying "it is done!"

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS 1ST CENTURY ISRAEL, JUDEA AND JERUSALEM

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass,
but the end<5056> is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen,
but the end<5056> is not yet.
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first,
but the end<5056> is not immediate.”
=====================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 
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I don't see "this present world system" in Matthew 13. What Bible version is that?

It does not say the end of the earth, so the end of the world must mean this present world as we know it or the end of this present age as confirmed in the Greek which in the case of Matthew 13 uses the word "Aion" meaning "age" which can also mean "this present age" or this present world system.
 
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jgr

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The righteous are left at the end. But without the return of Christ, there would be nothing left, which is why He is returning.

So are the unrighteous, prior to being incinerated.

Matthew 13
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
 
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Hello C E.
No such thing as the end of the world............
Maybe the last bowl poured out on Israel is the siege of Masada, the last Jewish Rebel stronghold..........

I did not say the end of the world as in the end of planet earth or all of mankind as I was just explaining to JGR and the last bowl described in Revelation does not describe the siege of Masada in any way shape, or form because the bowl described is of a major worldwide cataclysm that has not taken place and in which man is not used as an instrument in carrying out.
 
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So are the unrighteous, prior to being incinerated.

Matthew 13
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.


Which means only the righteous will be allowed into the Kingdom that Christ will set up when He returns as is made clear in the parable of the sheep and the goats.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It does not say the end of the earth, so the end of the world must mean this present world as we know it or the end of this present age as confirmed in the Greek which in the case of Matthew 13 uses the word "Aion" meaning "age" which can also mean "this present age" or this present world system.
YES! I agree with thee!
Consummation of the 1st century OC Mosaic Temple Jewish Age!
Excelllent!:amen: :oldthumbsup: :ebil:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

Matthew and Mark shows them on the Mount of Olives.
Peter and James and John and Andrew are shown in Mark
All 3 ask these 2 questions "when shall these be? and what the sign?"
Matthew 24 has "sign of Thy parousia<2952> and full end of the age.
==============================

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?

and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?


Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?

and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.


Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?

And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

===============================
Coincidentally, about 40yrs after this discourse is given, the Romans siege Jerusalem and according to Josephus, the 10th Legion, along with Titus encamped on the eastern side of the City on top of the Mount of Olivet, given them a clear view of the Temple.



Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @


"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


Legion X soon joins them, making a separate camp on the Mt. of Olives, east of the city ... May 1, 70. Nissan/Xanthicus 14.

View attachment 252031


Matthew 24:3....and what the sign of Thy parousia and full-end of the Age?

Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee.[Revelation 18:8]and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee..
Luke 21:20 “Whenever ye see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that nigh is Her desolation.

=============================
Revelation 18
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving Her blows death and sorrow and famine.

19 For to one hour She was desolated.


....................................
e2627453385a4412ca715fcb879b5bd6.jpg


............................
 
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jgr

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It does not say the end of the earth, so the end of the world must mean this present world as we know it or the end of this present age as confirmed in the Greek which in the case of Matthew 13 uses the word "Aion" meaning "age" which can also mean "this present age" or this present world system.

From the Greek:

συντέλεια τοῦ αἰ. τούτ., the end, or rather consummation, of the age preceding Christ's return, with which will be connected the resurrection of the dead, the last judgment, the demolition of this world and its restoration to a more excellent condition (cf. 4 Esdr. 7:43 []), Matthew 13:39f, 49; Matthew 24:3; Matthew 28:20;
 
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jgr

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Which means only the righteous will be allowed into the Kingdom that Christ will set up when He returns as is made clear in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Is He setting it up on this present world, which no longer exists after its end?
 
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Is He setting it up on this present world, which no longer exists after its end?


He is setting it up on this earth if that is what you are asking, but this present world system will be done away with.
 
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From the Greek:

συντέλεια τοῦ αἰ. τούτ., the end, or rather consummation, of the age preceding Christ's return, with which will be connected the resurrection of the dead, the last judgment, the demolition of this world and its restoration to a more excellent condition (cf. 4 Esdr. 7:43 []), Matthew 13:39f, 49; Matthew 24:3; Matthew 28:20;


And there will be a resurrection of saints martyred during the tribulation, the world in its present state will be no more, and the earth will be restored to a more excellent condition when Christ returns.
 
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YES! I agree with thee!
Consummation of the 1st century OC Mosaic Temple Jewish Age!
Excelllent!


But it goes beyond just the punishment brought upon Jerusalem. This is something that will affect the entire world.
 
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jgr

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And there will be a resurrection of saints martyred during the tribulation, the world in its present state will be no more, and the earth will be restored to a more excellent condition when Christ returns.

And He will return at the end, not 1,000 years before.
 
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jgr

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He is setting it up on this earth if that is what you are asking, but this present world system will be done away with.

On this earth, which no longer exists after "the end of the world"?

How will He do that?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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But it goes beyond just the punishment brought upon Jerusalem. This is something that will affect the entire world.
Nope......that is where Dispensationalist Futurists do greatly err and thus shipwreck the faith of many..........

70ad did affect the entire OC Jewish world/age, as it now shows the Gentiles [and Jews] of today that Jesus was indeed the true Lord, Savior and King sent to Israel to redeem the world.........

Olivet Discourse and Revelation...Worldwide Global or Regional

Act 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
Act 18:6
But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, Your blood be upon your own heads;
I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.

Gal 2:9
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship,
that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Romans 2:23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
[Psalm 74:10]
============================
THE SEVEN BOWLS/VIALS IN REVELATION
Revelation 16
8 And the fourth Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the sun and was given Him to scorch<2739> the men in fire.
9 And the men are scorched greatly and they blaspheme<987> the Name of the God the One having the authority upon these blows and not they repent/reform <3340> to give glory to Him.
10 And the Fifth pours out His Bowl upon the throne of the Beast and became the Kingdom of it having been darkened and they gnawed<3145> their tongues out of the misery<4192>
11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of their miseries and out of their sores and not they repent/reform out of their works.
17 And the seventh Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the air<109>
and came out a great voice out of the Sanctuary of the God saying "it has become<gegonen<1096>!"
21 And great hail as a talent weight<5006> is descending out of the heaven upon the men and they blaspheme the God out of the blow of the hail, that great is being the blow of it, tremendous!


 
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keras

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Revelation chapter 7 can only depict Christ on earth before the worshipping multitude, which would require His return to reign upon the earth or they are standing before Him in Heaven. But He cannot be physically on the earth without returning to reign for the scripture says that the next time He does return, He will return to reign.

How is He going to be reigning in Israel during the days of the Anti-Christ without the whole world noticing?
The scriptures that you and many seem to misread are: 2 Thessalonians 1:10, where it states that Jesus will be revealed to His own people, soon after His Day of fiery wrath.
Then in Revelation 14:1, He is standing on Mt Zion before His people, He selects the 144,000 who will go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:18b-19 confirms this.
Jesus may not be actually physically present then, only as a spiritual being, as He was to the ancient Israelites. 1 Corinthians 10:4

Zechariah 13:9 says that two thirds will pass, yet plainly states that the remaining third will survive the refining fire. You are still attempting to build your case on scriptures that have already been fulfilled. Jeremiah chapter 50 is about the judgment of Babylon which will be even more devastating and terrible than anything that ever came upon Israel and its people or ever will come. Ezekiel 20:34-38 is another passage regarding the regathering of the people of Israel from the nations into which they had been driven.
Zechariah 13:9 does NOT say the remaining third will survive. That is your addition to scripture. Bad you!
We see from the other verses I provided that only a very small number will survive. A holy Seed; Isaiah 6:13 Glossed over and ignored by you. More bad you!

In no way has Ezekiel 20:34-36 been fulfilled yet. You love to cite CONTEXT, yet when the context of a scripture doesn't conform to your beliefs, you ignore the rest of that chapter. Read Ezekiel 20:45-48 and see how that remains to be fulfilled.
An interesting note in Ezekiel 20:47 about the green and dry wood, [people] will be burnt alike. Jesus prophesied this in Luke 23:31.
 
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And He will return at the end, not 1,000 years before.


He will return at the end of this age, after which He reigns for a thousand years on the earth. After the thousand years is the final judgment and after which the present earth and heavens pass away and a new heaven and a new earth are created to which the New Jerusalem, where all the saints will dwell, will descend. (Revelation chapters 20-22)
 
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The scriptures that you and many seem to misread are: 2 Thessalonians 1:10, where it states that Jesus will be revealed to His own people, soon after His Day of fiery wrath.
Then in Revelation 14:1, He is standing on Mt Zion before His people, He selects the 144,000 who will go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:18b-19 confirms this.
Jesus may not be actually physically present then, only as a spiritual being, as He was to the ancient Israelites. 1 Corinthians 10:4


The preceding verses (7-9) indicate that this forthcoming of Christ is going to be witnessed by the entire world and everyone is going to witness His wrath to which the unrepentant wicked will be subject and while Isaiah 66:18-19 is a commission themed passage, it is no way, shape, or form associated with the 144,000 who will be called out for the purpose of evangelizing the entire world during the worst time in history that this world has ever known or ever will know and Revelation 14 depicts Christ as being physically present with the 144,000 as they are seen standing on Mount Zion to take place at a time after the 144,000 have completed their mission. There is no contextual evidence to suggest otherwise.



Zechariah 14:9 does NOT say the remaining third will survive. That is your addition to scripture. Bad you!
We see from the other verses I provided that only a very small number will survive. A holy Seed; Isaiah 6:13 Glossed over and ignored by you. More bad you!


If I had actually cited Zechariah 14:9, you could say that I was in error but that was not the passage I was citing from. But if there is anyone adding to the scripture, it is you in stating that the remaining third will not survive when Zechariah states that it is two-thirds of the nation of Israel who will die during the tribulation. No more and no less. There is no contextual evidence suggesting that any of the remaining third will perish. Isaiah 6:13 is in reference to the seventy year captivity that Isaiah had foretold that was to later take place during which Jerusalem was made desolate and Solomon's Temple was destroyed.


In no way has Ezekiel 20:34-36 been fulfilled yet. You love to cite CONTEXT, yet when the context of a scripture doesn't conform to your beliefs, you ignore the rest of that chapter. Read Ezekiel 20:45-48 and see how that remains to be fulfilled.
An interesting note in Ezekiel 20:47 about the green and dry wood, [people] will be burnt alike. Jesus prophesied this in Luke 23:31.


I never said that Ezekiel 20:34-47 was ever fulfilled in its entirety. It has been partially fulfilled and its fulfillment is in continuing progress in the sense that Israel has been re-established as a nation in their homeland and more Jews continue to move there but what remains to happen is the purging from the nation those who persist in their rebellion against the Lord.

After the purging of the wicked from the nation, they who remain of the nation will indeed be remorseful for sin and wickedness. As for the land or lands of the south against which Ezekiel prophesied, there is no evidence that the forests and fields that he prophesies against are symbolic of any people.

When God carries out judgment, that judgment can involve the destruction of the land in which the wicked dwell. What does come to mind in reading this passage is Revelation 8:7 which foretells of a third of the trees and all the green grass being burned up which is the first of the trumpet judgments foretold.

But it bears no relation to the words of Jesus who said that if men could commit the cruel and evil acts that had been done to Him before He had been crucified "during a green leaf, what shall be done in the dry?" (Lk. 23:31) According to those words, the world is destined to see even greater evils and horrors than what was done even against our Lord. If acts of evil and cruelty could be committed even under the best of circumstances, how much more so under the worst of circumstances?
 
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BABerean2

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Zechariah 13:9 tells us the size of that remnant; large enough to continue on as a viable nation and people and to recover from the devastation that they are destined to endure in the forth coming tribulation.

Would that be 144,000 people?

.
 
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