• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Jun 19, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    I don't see "this present world system" in Matthew 13. What Bible version is that?
     
  2. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    I will be sure to read Josephus, but what in Luke or Revelation reflects the events foretold by Zechariah in chapters 12-14?
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,475
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Hello C E.
    No such thing as the end of the world............

    Olivet Discourse and Revelation...Worldwide Global or Regional

    Maybe the last bowl poured out on Israel is the siege of Masada, the last Jewish Rebel stronghold..........

    THE SEVEN BOWLS/VIALS IN REVELATION

    Revelation 16:17 And the seventh Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the air<109>
    and came out a great voice out of the Sanctuary of the God saying "it is done!"

    WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS 1ST CENTURY ISRAEL, JUDEA AND JERUSALEM

    Matthew 24:
    6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
    for all these things must come to pass,
    but the end<5056> is not yet.
    Mark 13:
    7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
    for such things must happen,
    but the end<5056> is not yet.
    Luke 21:
    9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified;
    for these things must come to pass first,
    but the end<5056> is not immediate.”
    =====================
    Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

    CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

    Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
    Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
    Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
    Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
    Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
    Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
    Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70


     
  4. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    It does not say the end of the earth, so the end of the world must mean this present world as we know it or the end of this present age as confirmed in the Greek which in the case of Matthew 13 uses the word "Aion" meaning "age" which can also mean "this present age" or this present world system.
     
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    So are the unrighteous, prior to being incinerated.

    Matthew 13
    40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
     
  6. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    I did not say the end of the world as in the end of planet earth or all of mankind as I was just explaining to JGR and the last bowl described in Revelation does not describe the siege of Masada in any way shape, or form because the bowl described is of a major worldwide cataclysm that has not taken place and in which man is not used as an instrument in carrying out.
     
  7. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    Which means only the righteous will be allowed into the Kingdom that Christ will set up when He returns as is made clear in the parable of the sheep and the goats.
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,475
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    YES! I agree with thee!
    Consummation of the 1st century OC Mosaic Temple Jewish Age!
    Excelllent!:amen: :oldthumbsup: :ebil:

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

    Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

    Matthew and Mark shows them on the Mount of Olives.
    Peter and James and John and Andrew are shown in Mark
    All 3 ask these 2 questions "when shall these be? and what the sign?"
    Matthew 24 has "sign of Thy parousia<2952> and full end of the age.
    ==============================

    Matthew 24:3
    Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
    when shall these be being?

    and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?


    Mark 13
    3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
    Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
    4 Tell us! when these shall be?

    and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.


    Luke 21
    7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
    when then shall these be being?

    And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

    ===============================
    Coincidentally, about 40yrs after this discourse is given, the Romans siege Jerusalem and according to Josephus, the 10th Legion, along with Titus encamped on the eastern side of the City on top of the Mount of Olivet, given them a clear view of the Temple.



    Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @


    "..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
    ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


    Legion X soon joins them, making a separate camp on the Mt. of Olives, east of the city ... May 1, 70. Nissan/Xanthicus 14.

    View attachment 252031


    Matthew 24:3....and what the sign of Thy parousia and full-end of the Age?

    Luke 19:43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee.[Revelation 18:8]and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee..
    Luke 21:20 “Whenever ye see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
    then know that nigh is Her desolation.

    =============================
    Revelation 18
    8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving Her blows death and sorrow and famine.

    19 For to one hour She was desolated.


    ....................................[​IMG]

    ............................
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    From the Greek:

    συντέλεια τοῦ αἰ. τούτ., the end, or rather consummation, of the age preceding Christ's return, with which will be connected the resurrection of the dead, the last judgment, the demolition of this world and its restoration to a more excellent condition (cf. 4 Esdr. 7:43 []), Matthew 13:39f, 49; Matthew 24:3; Matthew 28:20;
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    Is He setting it up on this present world, which no longer exists after its end?
     
  11. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    He is setting it up on this earth if that is what you are asking, but this present world system will be done away with.
     
  12. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    And there will be a resurrection of saints martyred during the tribulation, the world in its present state will be no more, and the earth will be restored to a more excellent condition when Christ returns.
     
  13. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    But it goes beyond just the punishment brought upon Jerusalem. This is something that will affect the entire world.
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    And He will return at the end, not 1,000 years before.
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,674
    Non-Denom
    On this earth, which no longer exists after "the end of the world"?

    How will He do that?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,475
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Nope......that is where Dispensationalist Futurists do greatly err and thus shipwreck the faith of many..........

    70ad did affect the entire OC Jewish world/age, as it now shows the Gentiles [and Jews] of today that Jesus was indeed the true Lord, Savior and King sent to Israel to redeem the world.........

    Olivet Discourse and Revelation...Worldwide Global or Regional

    Act 9:15
    But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
    Act 18:6
    But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, Your blood be upon your own heads;
    I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.

    Gal 2:9
    and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship,
    that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

    Romans 2:23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10]
    ============================
    THE SEVEN BOWLS/VIALS IN REVELATION
    Revelation 16
    8 And the fourth Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the sun and was given Him to scorch<2739> the men in fire.
    9 And the men are scorched greatly and they blaspheme<987> the Name of the God the One having the authority upon these blows and not they repent/reform <3340> to give glory to Him.
    10 And the Fifth pours out His Bowl upon the throne of the Beast and became the Kingdom of it having been darkened and they gnawed<3145> their tongues out of the misery<4192>
    11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of their miseries and out of their sores and not they repent/reform out of their works.
    17 And the seventh Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the air<109>
    and came out a great voice out of the Sanctuary of the God saying "it has become<gegonen<1096>!"
    21 And great hail as a talent weight<5006> is descending out of the heaven upon the men and they blaspheme the God out of the blow of the hail, that great is being the blow of it, tremendous!


     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +1,868
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The scriptures that you and many seem to misread are: 2 Thessalonians 1:10, where it states that Jesus will be revealed to His own people, soon after His Day of fiery wrath.
    Then in Revelation 14:1, He is standing on Mt Zion before His people, He selects the 144,000 who will go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:18b-19 confirms this.
    Jesus may not be actually physically present then, only as a spiritual being, as He was to the ancient Israelites. 1 Corinthians 10:4

    Zechariah 13:9 does NOT say the remaining third will survive. That is your addition to scripture. Bad you!
    We see from the other verses I provided that only a very small number will survive. A holy Seed; Isaiah 6:13 Glossed over and ignored by you. More bad you!

    In no way has Ezekiel 20:34-36 been fulfilled yet. You love to cite CONTEXT, yet when the context of a scripture doesn't conform to your beliefs, you ignore the rest of that chapter. Read Ezekiel 20:45-48 and see how that remains to be fulfilled.
    An interesting note in Ezekiel 20:47 about the green and dry wood, [people] will be burnt alike. Jesus prophesied this in Luke 23:31.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  18. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    He will return at the end of this age, after which He reigns for a thousand years on the earth. After the thousand years is the final judgment and after which the present earth and heavens pass away and a new heaven and a new earth are created to which the New Jerusalem, where all the saints will dwell, will descend. (Revelation chapters 20-22)
     
  19. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

    +259
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others

    The preceding verses (7-9) indicate that this forthcoming of Christ is going to be witnessed by the entire world and everyone is going to witness His wrath to which the unrepentant wicked will be subject and while Isaiah 66:18-19 is a commission themed passage, it is no way, shape, or form associated with the 144,000 who will be called out for the purpose of evangelizing the entire world during the worst time in history that this world has ever known or ever will know and Revelation 14 depicts Christ as being physically present with the 144,000 as they are seen standing on Mount Zion to take place at a time after the 144,000 have completed their mission. There is no contextual evidence to suggest otherwise.




    If I had actually cited Zechariah 14:9, you could say that I was in error but that was not the passage I was citing from. But if there is anyone adding to the scripture, it is you in stating that the remaining third will not survive when Zechariah states that it is two-thirds of the nation of Israel who will die during the tribulation. No more and no less. There is no contextual evidence suggesting that any of the remaining third will perish. Isaiah 6:13 is in reference to the seventy year captivity that Isaiah had foretold that was to later take place during which Jerusalem was made desolate and Solomon's Temple was destroyed.



    I never said that Ezekiel 20:34-47 was ever fulfilled in its entirety. It has been partially fulfilled and its fulfillment is in continuing progress in the sense that Israel has been re-established as a nation in their homeland and more Jews continue to move there but what remains to happen is the purging from the nation those who persist in their rebellion against the Lord.

    After the purging of the wicked from the nation, they who remain of the nation will indeed be remorseful for sin and wickedness. As for the land or lands of the south against which Ezekiel prophesied, there is no evidence that the forests and fields that he prophesies against are symbolic of any people.

    When God carries out judgment, that judgment can involve the destruction of the land in which the wicked dwell. What does come to mind in reading this passage is Revelation 8:7 which foretells of a third of the trees and all the green grass being burned up which is the first of the trumpet judgments foretold.

    But it bears no relation to the words of Jesus who said that if men could commit the cruel and evil acts that had been done to Him before He had been crucified "during a green leaf, what shall be done in the dry?" (Lk. 23:31) According to those words, the world is destined to see even greater evils and horrors than what was done even against our Lord. If acts of evil and cruelty could be committed even under the best of circumstances, how much more so under the worst of circumstances?
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +5,423
    Christian
    Married
    Would that be 144,000 people?

    .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...