Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Have someone mathematically perceptive explain it.



Not all Jews want more Jews. Where will they all fit?

Undoubtedly there is growing reluctance to immigrate because prospective immigrants are hearing that eventually their probability of annihilation is .66667. Is God going to herd them back against their will?


"Undoubtedly there is growing reluctance to immigrate because prospective immigrants are hearing that eventually their probability of annihilation is .66667. Is God going to herd them back against their will?"


Those who are returning are doing so because they want to.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"Undoubtedly there is growing reluctance to immigrate because prospective immigrants are hearing that eventually their probability of annihilation is .66667. Is God going to herd them back against their will?"


Those who are returning are doing so because they want to.

They want to be annihilated?

Or they are not yet aware that they will be?
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"They want to be annihilated?

Or they are not yet aware that they will be? "


They are not going there to be annihilated nor will they be. (Jer. 35-37, 33:20-26, Mal. 3:6) And God is bringing them back to the land of Israel to fulfill prophecy, one of which states of a time in which the Jews will be brought back to their land to be permanently established there. (Ezek. 37:25, Am. 9:15)

And the Jews returning to Israel apparently trust God enough to prosper them there and protect them.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The prophet Zechariah foretells that two thirds of the Israelites in the land will be wiped out and that the third part remaining will be saved by Messiah. (Zech. 13:8)

They are not going there to be annihilated nor will they be.

There seems to be a contradiction.

How is "wiped out" different from annihilated?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The scriptures state more than once that God will gather all Jews back to their homeland from the nations to which they were driven.

If you can show that from the New Testament, we would all greatly appreciate it.

.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you can show that from the New Testament, we would all greatly appreciate it.

.


Why not show me where in the New Testament it says specifically that the Jews will not be regathered to their land.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pasifika
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There seems to be a contradiction.

How is "wiped out" different from annihilated?


Zechariah does not say that they will all be destroyed. He says that some will be delivered; those among them who finally call on Messiah for deliverance.
 
Upvote 0

Contenders Edge

Well-Known Member
Supporter
May 13, 2019
2,615
370
43
Hayfork
✟167,447.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Have someone who understands the meaning of "example" explain it.


One thing I do know is that Abraham is not cited as an example in the particular article that you are referring to.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah does not say that they will all be destroyed. He says that some will be delivered; those among them who finally call on Messiah for deliverance.

You said that Zechariah says that two-thirds will be "wiped out".

Who would want to immigrate to that?
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The prophet Zechariah foretells that two thirds of the Israelites in the land will be wiped out and that the third part remaining will be saved by Messiah. (Zech. 13:8) A third part is still a sizeable remnant; enough to still remain a viable nation and people which is why I would not necessarily call that a virtual destruction of a people as it otherwise would be if say for example, 99 percent of a people were to be wiped out.
You have a very fanciful idea of what the Lord plans for the apostate and atheistic Jews. Zechariah 13:9 plainly states that the surviving third will have to pass thru fire and we know that only a remnant will remain. Romans 9:27
Many prophesies do tell of their virtual destruction, esp those who are currently in the holy Land. Zephaniah 1:14-18. Luke 19:27

Why is it so difficult for you to see that Judah and Israel have not rejoined as yet? It is clear that Ezekiel 37 remains unfulfilled, as the prophesied Blessings have not happened yet.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I do know that Abraham is not the "individual" that the first article you cited centers around.

Have someone who understands that the article refers to many individuals, of whom Abraham qualifies as one; explain it.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why not show me where in the New Testament it says specifically that the Jews will not be regathered to their land.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.



Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.




Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why not show me where in the New Testament it says specifically that the Jews will not be regathered to their land.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God does not regather anyone to anywhere under a vanished covenant.

Nor was it ever "their land".

Israel was only its steward. It belonged to the Father.

Leviticus 25
23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.

And He bequeathed it all to His Son.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

There's no mistaking all.

And there's no mistaking that Israel is not the Heir.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

pasifika

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2019
2,368
634
45
Waikato
✟160,916.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.



Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.




Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

.
Hello, if the promises that God spoke to Abraham and to his Seed (Christ ) and one of the promises is regarding the promise land...Galatians 3:16...

and Genesis 12:7..." The Lord appeared to Abram and said, " To your Seed I will give this land", So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him...

So, isn't that land where God spoke about (Genesis 12:7) is somewhere around the current land of Israel is? The location of the land hasn't changed at All...

If the land has changed then is there any references in the Old or New Testament of a new promise land??
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Enemies Occupy the Holy Land:

Isaiah 66:5-6 Hear the Word of the Lord, you who revere His Name and keep His commandments. Those scoffers who say: Where is Jesus? When will your so-called God do anything? They will be shocked, for with a great noise His retribution will fall upon them. 2 Peter 3:3-10

Isaiah 63:18 Why have ungodly people trespassed on Your holy place? Why do enemies trample the holy Land? Psalm 37:10-11, Jeremiah 6:12

Jeremiah 12:8-17 Is this Land of Mine a hyena’s lair? The birds of prey and the wild beasts have taken My holy Land over, they ravage it and trample it down, making it a desolation, to My sorrow. The Lord says: I shall uproot all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people. Judah too, I shall uproot, but if any of them learn the right ways of My people, then they can join and live again in the holy Land. My sword of punishment will devour the Land from end to end, no living thing will remain there. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 6:11-13

Psalms 7:12-16 The enemy prepares his weapons again, but it is against himself that he has made ready his deadly shafts, tipped with fire. They are all in collusion with iniquity and sinfulness, their plans for violence and terror will fall upon their own heads.

Psalms 68:1-3 May God arise and His enemies be scattered. He will disperse them like smoke. His fire will melt them like wax and they will perish in the heat of His wrath, but the righteous will be joyful, as they exult in the triumph of their God.

Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, all in an instant, punishment will come from God Almighty with thunder, earthquakes and a great noise, with storm tempest and flames of devouring fire. The horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, that multitude of ruthless foes will scatter like chaff. Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 66:15-16, Rev. 6:12-17


Micah 5:7-15 All the remnant of the descendants of Jacob, now dispersed among the nations, will become like dew from the Lord, they will look only to Him who saves them. Their enemy’s will be destroyed, but on that Day their military power will be lost, all the occult followers will die and any things of idol worship will be gone. Amos 9:10 In anger and fury the Lord will wreak vengeance on all the peoples who disobey Him. Isaiah 66:15-17

Zechariah 8:11-13 The Lord says: I do not feel the same now toward the remnant of My people, as I did in former days. Hosea 11:8-11 Now I shall save you and bless you, you will work the Land in safety, the sky will give rain and the soil will yield abundant produce. Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:23-27, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 30:18-22 Ref: REB abridged and paraphrased.


Birds of prey and wild beasts have taken over My Land… and the evil neighbours… These are metaphors for the ungodly peoples who are now living in the holy Land.

The enemies deadly shafts, tipped with fire – an ancient description for a modern weapon: a nuke tipped missile. It is against themselves they have prepared their weapons and they will fall onto their own heads. All the weapons ready to fire at Israel will explode on the launch pad or in their bunkers. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come in the heat of the Lord’s wrath, causing earthquakes with flames of fire that will burn His enemies to ashes. As described here and throughout the Bible, this will be a huge coronal mass ejection sun explosion that will fulfill all the graphic prophecies about the Lord’s judgement by fire. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

But the punishment by exile of Israel and Judah will be completed and the Lord will save and bless them. They will go back to their inheritance, all that area promised to Abraham, cleansed from end to end by this terrible devastation by fire. Many prophecies tell about the great second Exodus of righteous Israel to the holy Land, where they will work the Land in safety, being a light to the nations, all as originally meant for them. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to tell the world the gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello, if the promises that God spoke to Abraham and to his Seed (Christ ) and one of the promises is regarding the promise land...Galatians 3:16...

and Genesis 12:7..." The Lord appeared to Abram and said, " To your Seed I will give this land", So he built an altar there to the Lord, who had appeared to him...

So, isn't that land where God spoke about (Genesis 12:7) is somewhere around the current land of Israel is? The location of the land hasn't changed at All...

If the land has changed then is there any references in the Old or New Testament of a new promise land??

In the passage below the "son" reveals that He is the "heir" to the land, instead of those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".
He also says the kingdom will be taken from those who reject Him, and it will be given to another.


Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


Our future land promise if found below.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.



.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.