- May 13, 2019
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Jesus is presently reigning from the throne (heaven)
Right, your avoiding my argument and switching to a different book and chapter. A common tactic on these forums. Please address colossians 1:23 which specifically addresses the GOSPEL being proclaimed to all creation under heaven. Romans 1:18-22 does not have to do with the gospel being preached but rather it has to do with the nations recognizing the one true God via creation. There is a difference between recognizing that there is God (romans 1:18-22) and the gospel being proclaimed (colossians 1:23).
You are using another fallacy in informal logic: Appealing to Authority. Please show where God defines oikumene as the "entire world" and not the "inhabited land of the roman empire" in order to substantiate your claim. I could say that God created the definition of oikumene to be "inhabited land of the roman empire" and thus that is why it is defined that way.
There is no scripture that states the exact year nor did I claim there was. There is scripture that states "this generation will not pass until all these things occur". Thus the disciples would have known the temple would fall in their life time.
see post 559
But within their generation (matthew 24:33-34)
I don't think you know what imminent means. It does not mean "far off".
In post 508 you stated:
"Because these are normal astronomical phenomena to which no one gives a thought and from which no one has anything to fear. If Jesus was referring to natural phenomena preceding His return, His Words would be meaningless."
However, ancient peoples did pay attention to astronomical phenomena. In fact, its how the magi found Jesus in the manger.
which data point did I specifically manipulate?
Again, you are not reading the data correctly. Earthquakes from 1990 to 2018 did not increase in a statistically significant way.
From the british geological survey: Is Earthquake Activity Increasing?
"Recent devastating earthquakes in Haiti, Chile and China, as well as magnitude 7 plus earthquakes in Indonesia and California, might give the impression that earthquake activity is increasing. In fact, a quick look at earthquake statistics over the last twenty years shows that this is not the case. On average there are about fifteen earthquakes every year with a magnitude of 7 or greater. As with any quasi-random phenomena, the number of earthquakes each year varies slightly from this average, but in general, there are no dramatic variations. So far this year, there have been six magnitude 7+ earthquakes, in keeping with the annual rate."
From The United States Geological Survey: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has naturally occurring earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up for a big one?
"The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes."
“Jesus is presently reigning from the throne (heaven).”
But His rule of law is not being presently enforced as it will be when He brings His Kingship to earth.
“Right, your avoiding my argument and switching to a different book and chapter. A common tactic on these forums. Please address colossians 1:23 which specifically addresses the GOSPEL being proclaimed to all creation under heaven. Romans 1:18-22 does not have to do with the gospel being preached but rather it has to do with the nations recognizing the one true God via creation. There is a difference between recognizing that there is God (romans 1:18-22) and the gospel being proclaimed (colossians 1:23).”
It is called seeking the full counsel of scripture on any given topic. A common tactic of proponents of false doctrine is to build their case on a few passages of scripture while dismissing and ignoring everything else the scripture has to say on the topic at hand that is being taught.
“You are using another fallacy in informal logic: Appealing to Authority. Please show where God defines oikumene as the "entire world" and not the "inhabited land of the roman empire" in order to substantiate your claim. I could say that God created the definition of oikumene to be "inhabited land of the roman empire" and thus that is why it is defined that way.”
Strong’s definition of oikoumene: “land, i.e. (terrene part of the) globe; spec. the Rom. Empire—earth, world.”
While Strong’s definition does apply this definitions specifically to the Roman empire, it also can apply to lands and peoples outside of the Roman empire. If James Strong, however did intend to define the word oikoumene to apply only to the Roman empire, then that would only go to show that his work is not entirely flawless.
“see post 559.”
I already addressed post 559 and it does not address the citation to which you have applied it.
“But within their generation.”
Yet as far as history is concerned, not everything Christ said would come to pass did come to pass in that generation which is why we appeal to John 21:21-23, which Preterism has caused you to dismiss, and causing its adherents to believe that Christ is limited in His power to fulfill His Words.
“I don't think you know what imminent means. It does not mean "far off".
From the perspective of man and how man defines the term, I would agree and I never specifically stated that it meant “far off” but instead defined it as “any time” and the Apostle Peter clearly states that what may be declared imminent from God’s point of view may not seem so from our perspective (2 Pet. 3:9) which is why we are always to treat the return of Christ as an imminent event as it could just as easily take place in one generation as it could the next.
“…ancient peoples did pay attention to astronomical phenomena. In fact, its how the magi found Jesus in the manger.”
Again, you seem to be equating the occult practice of astrology to the scientific practice of astronomy. The astronomical phenomena involving the star over Bethlehem was no ordinary astronomical phenomena. It was something that had never happened before and yet it remained over the place where Jesus was to be born long enough for the magi to find Him.
“which data point did I specifically manipulate?
When you do the following:
“In 1990 there were 1744
In 2000 there were 1501
In 2010 there were 2383
In 2017 there were 1566
In 2018 there were 1808”
Cutting out years listed in the data, is data manipulation. In this case, you tried to make it appear to show something that it did not. I would not condone such a tactic even from those defending a pre-millenial or futurist viewpoint. When I read that data for myself, I took every single year into account before forming my conclusion.
Data can be fluctuative, but it will show an overall increase and decrease. In this case, the data showed an overall increase in earthquakes from 1990 to now.
From the british geological survey: Is Earthquake Activity Increasing?
The data from the British Geological survey only spans from 1990 to 2010 and therefore does not give as full of a picture as the U.S. Geological Survey. Not to mention, the data of both conflict with one another.
"Recent devastating earthquakes in Haiti, Chile and China, as well as magnitude 7 plus earthquakes in Indonesia and California, might give the impression that earthquake activity is increasing. In fact, a quick look at earthquake statistics over the last twenty years shows that this is not the case. On average there are about fifteen earthquakes every year with a magnitude of 7 or greater. As with any quasi-random phenomena, the number of earthquakes each year varies slightly from this average, but in general, there are no dramatic variations. So far this year, there have been six magnitude 7+ earthquakes, in keeping with the annual rate."
From The United States Geological Survey: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has naturally occurring earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up for a big one?
These are secular institutions and therefore naturally, they will attempt to interpret the data from a secular perspective and not from a biblical perspective.
"The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes."
Most of the so-called earthquakes that these seismic instruments detect go unnoticed, but we know that this was not what Jesus was talking about when He said that there would be earthquakes in various places. He was talking about earthquakes that would be noticeable and cause destruction.
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