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Featured Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Jun 19, 2019.

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  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The rabbis who understand the genetics welcome one and all.

    The politicians responsible for the costs of social benefits, not so much.

    Wait, they just extort another few hundred million from the American taxpayer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Some interesting stastitics:

    Key U.S. lawmakers want to boost Israel's $38 billion defense aid package - Reuters

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. senators who just returned from a trip to Israel called on Tuesday for an increase in the $38 billion in military aid the United States is currently providing Israel, signaling support for more funds for Israeli missile systems.
    ============================
    The United States and Israel signed an agreement in September 2016 to give Israel $38 billion in military assistance over the next decade, the largest such aid package in U.S. history but one that included concessions by Israel's government.
    =====================
    United States foreign aid - Wikipedia

    United States foreign aid is aid given by the United States government to other governments. It does not include money from private charitable organizations based in the United States, or remittances sent between family members. There are two broad categories: military aid and economic assistance.[1] The Congressional Research Service divides it into five categories: bilateral development aid, economic assistance, humanitarian aid, multilateral economic contributions, and military aid.[2]

    Overview. In fiscal year 2017 (10/1/2016 to 09/30/2017), the U.S. government allocated the following amounts for aid: Total economic and military assistance: $49.87 billion. Total economic assistance: $35.10 billion, of which USAID Implemented: $20.55 billion.
    ==================================
    Deu 7:20
    “Moreover the LORD your God will send the hornet among them until those who are left, who hide themselves from you, are destroyed.



    Hornet pig missiles.jpg
    F-18 Super Hornet Is Used in the Fight Against ISIS

     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  3. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That all depends on whether you are beginning at verse 1 of Matthew chapter 1 or verse 2 which is where the genealogy begins. It also depends on whether you start with the end result or the cause of the result.
     
  4. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The rabbis welcome proselytes, but that still does not tell me what genetics they are looking to. As for the politicians, that is a broad spectrum so that depends on which politicians you are talking about although they are not looking to convert anyone to any particular religion though there are a sizeable number who would like to impose the religion of atheism on the populace and the economic systems of socialism and communism, but those are subjects for a different thread, and as far as extorting money from the American taxpayer, that all depends on what you are referring to.
     
  5. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are right that I did mean chapter 20 in the book of Revelation as far as the millenial reign is concerned, but what do you mean by "my version" of the millenial reign? Is it the version that depicts Christ literal reigning on the earth for a thousand years before Satan is loosed again on the earth to lead a final rebellion against God and fails? It is the one that takes place before the Great White throne judgment during which Lucifer, his followers and all of those who are damned are cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever, and after which the new heavens and new earth are created wherein is no more death, sin, or curse?

    Is that what you are calling "my version" of the millenial reign? How could I possibly call that version of the millennial reign "my version" when that version was written long before either one of us was born? One thing I will not do is receive credit for the work of another.

    As for the cited passage, from 2 Thessalonians, did you not notice that it is the wicked who are destroyed by this fire and not the righteous?
     
  6. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Psalm 2 is in reference to all the nations of the world and not just Israel. Revelation chapter 14 has to do with the everlasting judgment upon all those who have aligned themselves with the coming Anti-Christ and have taken his mark and not Israel.
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You evidently haven't finished reading the links I provided in the earlier post, so keep reading.

    Re-read my post. I'm talking about the politicians responsible for paying the social benefit costs of ultimately the entirety of humanity. Genetics would, of economic necessity, also ultimately, play second, or no, fiddle.

    Re. the American taxpayer, see LLoJ's revealing post 582.
     
  8. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have read all of your links. None of them say that Abraham’s genes are in every one of us which means there is a genetic distinction between Jews and Gentiles. And according to Jewish custom, it takes more than just DNA to be accepted as Jewish, but customs and traditions, unlike scripture, are subject to change.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What do you think this means:

    "As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”"

    And this:

    "Recent advances in DNA testing are the final stage in bringing about a special vision of Messiah, one that will fulfill God’s promise to Abraham while uniting all three major Abrahamic religions, believes a prominent rabbi and former member of Knesset."

    Evidently you don't understand what you've read.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Your version is the one that assumes the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, because you are ignoring "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.

    Your version is the one that ignores the symbolism in the Book of Revelation.
    Do you think Satan can be bound with a steel chain, like one from the hardware store?
    Are wicked angels already chained in the two verses below?

    2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


    Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



    I did notice that it is the wicked who are destroyed by the "flaming fire" described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?


    Your version must ignore a tremendous amount of New Testament scripture to work.
    For example, in the verse below Paul reveals the timing of the judgment of both the living and the dead, which occurs at His appearing.


    2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


    The following video reveals the many scriptures which kill your version in less than 10 minutes.



    All of the above reveal the fact that the 1,000 years of Revelation chapter 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  11. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    The promises of the old covenant were a part of the CONDITIONAL agreement: If Israel obeyed, they would receive blessings (Deuteronomy 28:1-14). If Israel disobeyed, they would receive curses (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). After the blessings and curses had been poured out, if Israel returned to the Lord, He would restore them from captivity and bring them back from the land (Deuteronomy 30:1-5).

    For example, A father promises to give his kid a cookie IF the kid cleans his room. The kid refuses to the clean his room. As a result, the father does not give his kid a cookie.

    The promise of receiving the cookie is CONDITIONAL upon the kid cleaning the room. The father is in no way unfaithful to his promise for not giving the cookie when the kid did not clean his room.

    So it is with the old covenant agreement. The promises of the old covenant were CONDITIONAL upon Israel's obedience to God. However, the old covenant agreement was made obsolete because of the fault found on the side of the people to keep their end of the agreement (Hebrews 8:7-8).


    The author of Hebrews states the old covenant was taken away and made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13 and Hebrews 10:9). The author of Hebrews states the old covenant was only until the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:10). Paul states the that Israel was locked up under the custody of the law until faith in Christ was revealed (Galatians 3:23).

    Being "under the law", or in other words, being bound to the agreement that one will obey the law through works is required in order to receive the conditional blessings of the law (Deuteronomy 28:1-14, Romans 10:5).

    Again, the argument is not what specific laws have changed, been removed, or have remained from the 613 commands given by Moses. That is another topic for another thread.

    The argument is that the old covenant AGREEMENT between God and the nation of Israel was made obsolete and taken away by Christ. The agreement was between 2 parties: Israel and God. If Israel did their part by obeying all 613 commands of moses, then God would do his part by blessing them with earthly blessings (Deuteronomy 28:1-14). If Israel did not do their part and did not follow all 613 commands of Moses, then God would do His part and curse Israel (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). If Israel would then do their part after curses had been poured out and return to God, then God would do His part and restore them from captivity and bring them back to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1-5).


    God's part in the agreement was always CONDITIONAL upon Israel's part: obedience.

    The new testament declares the old covenant, which was an agreement for Israel to do their part and God to do His part, was made obsolete and taken away.

    The old covenant was a conditional agreement. If Israel promised to follow 613 commands of moses then God would promise to bless them. If Israel disobeyed the 613 commands of moses then God would promise to curse Israel. If Israel would turn back to God after he outpouring of blessings and curses, then God promised to restore Israel.

    This conditional agreement known as that the old covenant was made obsolete and taken away at the cross. It was superseded by the new covenant, which has better promises (Hebrews 8:6).


    Israel, Jews and grafted in Gentiles, was already a nation in the 1st century.

    1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

    The NT does in fact declare parts of Ezekiel 37 fulfilled.

    Ezekiel prophesied that God would settle Israel in their own land and He would put his Spirit in them. The book of Acts records Jews "from every nation under heaven" were dwelling in Israel when God poured His spirit out.

    Ezekiel 37:14 I will put My Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.’”

    Acts 2:4-5 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

    Ezekiel prophesied that God would dwell with his people and God would be their God and they His people. Paul has this being fulfilled in the 1st century.

    Ezekiel 37:27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people.

    2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”

    Ezekiel prophesied that the northern kingdom and southern kingdom would be reunited. Hosea parallels this prophecy. Paul quotes hosea 1:10 as being fulfilled in the 1st century with the inclusion of Jew and gentiles into the vessels of mercy (romans 9:24-26). Thus if hosea 1:10-11 was beingfulfilled in the 1st century, then so was Ezekiel 37:22

    Ezekiel 37:22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them. Then they will no longer be two nations and will never again be divided into two kingdoms.

    Hosea 1:10-11 Yet the number of the Israelites will be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or counted. And it will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ Then the people of Judah and of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one leader, and will go up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel.

    God is responsible for the rise and fall of all earthly kingdoms.

    What?

    As stated in the old covenant agreement, if Israel repented and turned the Lord, AFTER the blessings and curses had been poured out, then God would restore Israel from captivity and return them to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1-5).

    Daniel 9 and Nehemiah 1 are evidences that show Israel repenting while in exile.


    Nehemiah 1:9 but if you return to Me to keep and practice My commandments, then even if your exiles have been banished to the ends of the earth, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for My Name.

    Daniel 9:17-18 So now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of Your servant. For Your sake, O Lord, cause Your face to shine upon Your desolate sanctuary. Incline Your ear, O my God, and hear; open Your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears Your name. For we are not presenting our petitions before You because of our righteous acts, but because of Your great compassion.

    Jeremiah explicitly prophesies that it would be after the 70 years of Babylonian exile that Israel would turn to God and he would restore them from captivity and bring them back to the land.

    Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.”

    Thus, after the 70 years and when Israel had repented as evidenced by Daniel and Nehemiah, Israel was restored from captivity and returned to the land. This is substantiated by the accounts of Ezra and nehemiah. This is even substantiated by psalm 85, which was written post Babylonian exile.

    Psalm 85:1 You showed favor to Your land, O LORD; You restored Jacob from captivity.

    So no, the people of Israel did not return in unbelief from the Babylonian exile.

    Ezra 3:1,4-5,11 By the seventh month, the Israelites had settled in their towns, and the people assembled as one man in Jerusalem. And they sang responsively with praise and thanksgiving to the LORD: “For He is good; for His loving devotion to Israel endures forever.”


    And when was the spirit poured out? At Pentecost in the 1st century, which was after the Babylonian exile.


    God called the divorced and exiled northern kingdom "no longer his people and He no longer their God."


    hosea 1:9 And the LORD said, “Name him Lo-ammi,d for you are not My people, and I am not your God.


    If the divorced and exiled northern kingdom was no longer God's people, which resulted with them mixing with the surrounding nations (hosea 7:8) and being ousted from the covenant, then what would become of those offspring over 700 years leading up to the 1st century? They would become as gentiles.


    Thus Paul has hosea 1:10-11 and 2:23 being fulfilled with the inclusion of the GENTILES with the jews in the vessels of mercy (Romans 9:24-26).



    Correct. Circumcision not by human hands as performed by Christ was occurring in the 1st century. The 1st century took place after Israel had returned from to the land from Babylonian exile.

    Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands.

    We have to understand that the law was only a shadow of Christ (Hebrews 10:1, colossians 2:17). The law the type, Christ the antitype.

    Thus Israel receiving the curses of the law through the Assyrian/Babylonian exiles are a shadow of Christ receiving the curses of the law on Israel's behalf (galatians 3:13-14).

    Israel being restored from captivity and being brought back to the land after the curses had been poured out through the Assyrian/Babylonian exiles is a shadow of those in Christ being set free (Galatiants 5:1) and being gathered to him in one body (John 11:52).

    Thus, I would argue that Ezekiel's prophecy had immediate context in its type/shadow (Israel returning from Assyrian/Babylonian exile), but also a prophetic context in its antitype/reality (Christ setting his people free from sin and them gathering to one body). Thus, while there was spiritual death leading up to and during the Babylonian exile, there was spiritual death leading up to the cross.

    Israel repented under the their part of the deal in the old covenant and God returned them to land after the 70 years of Babylonian punishment as part of His side of the agreement.

    However, the NT is very clear that this agreement was made obsolete.

    Jews have lived in the land of Israel prior to 1948 for last 2,000 years. Israel being recognized as an independent country by other nations is not a requirement to fulfill prophecy, as Israel was not recognized by Persia as an independent nation upon returning from Babylonian exile.

    As paul states, a jew is not one outwardly but only if they are circumcised in the heart.

    Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.

    Please provide NT scripture that confirms Christ will reign upon the earth in a physical temple in order to substantiated your interpretation of the OT.
     
  12. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    As the NT is absent of any mention of land restoration, one can only make an argument from ignorance or an argument from silence.

    An argument from ignorance is always a fallacy in informal logic, while an argument from silence is not. Thus out of the 2 options, the argument from silence is much stronger.

    The argument that because the NT makes no mention of land restoration then land restoration is still in effect, despite the explicit declaration that the old covenant was made obsolete, is a fallacy in informal logic.

    The argument that because the NT declares the old covenant taken away and made obsolete in addition to absence of any mention of land restoration then land restoration is not part of the new covenant, is an argument from silence. And in this case, because the NT explicitly declares the old covenant obsolete, the argument of silence is much stronger than then the fallacy in informal logic that your argument from ignorance demonstrates
    .

    The promises under the old covenant agreement were conditional upon Israel's repentance and turning to God. To say that Israel should received the land despite their complete and utter disobedience of the law of moses would be to change and unchanging God.

    Well, there is no scripture, NT or OT, that tell us there a multiple exiles due to punishment followed by multiple returnings to the land. In fact, OT scripture only points to the Babylonian exile followed by Israel being redeemed. There is not one mention of a 2nd exile followed a 2nd regathering to the land.

    The reason the old covenant was done away with was for that exact reason.


    Incorrect. I have declared only what the NT has declared, that the old covenant was made obsolete and taken away. I am not declaring which of the 613 righteous has or has not been removed. I am only stating that the conditional agreement between God and the nation of Israel was removed.

    You, however, appear to be stating the old covenant agreement is still in effect in that you state that God's part of the conditional agreement is still in effect.


    You are conflating the unconditional promise of the land given to Abraham and his offspring, with the conditional land promise given to the nation of Israel under the old covenant.

    As Paul clearly states, the promises (PLURAL) were to Abraham and his seed. The seed being Christ. Thus the land was promised unconditionally to Christ

    Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.

    Christ was made Lord (Acts 2:36). The earth is the Lords (1 Corinthians 10:26). Thus the earth, which includes the land of Israel, belongs to Christ fulfilling the promise to Abraham and his offspring (Christ).

    As the old covenant explicitly states, land restoration was conditional upon Israel turning to God. When Israel returned to the Lord, THEN he would restore them from captivity.

    Deuteronomy 30:1-4 and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, then the Lord your God will restore your captivity and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.

    I could not find where you explicitly stated what the barn represents. Can you either repeat what you believe the barn specifically is or show me which post you specifically stated what it is?

    The wheat that grows from the seeds are the sons of the kingdom.

    matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom.

    How so exactly? how is God sowing Israel to grow them and not destroy them and making a new covenant with them (Jeremiah 31:27-37) different than Christ sowing the good seed (sons of the kingdom)?

     
  13. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is presently reigning from the throne (heaven)

    Right, your avoiding my argument and switching to a different book and chapter. A common tactic on these forums. Please address colossians 1:23 which specifically addresses the GOSPEL being proclaimed to all creation under heaven. Romans 1:18-22 does not have to do with the gospel being preached but rather it has to do with the nations recognizing the one true God via creation. There is a difference between recognizing that there is God (romans 1:18-22) and the gospel being proclaimed (colossians 1:23).

    You are using another fallacy in informal logic: Appealing to Authority. Please show where God defines oikumene as the "entire world" and not the "inhabited land of the roman empire" in order to substantiate your claim. I could say that God created the definition of oikumene to be "inhabited land of the roman empire" and thus that is why it is defined that way.

    There is no scripture that states the exact year nor did I claim there was. There is scripture that states "this generation will not pass until all these things occur". Thus the disciples would have known the temple would fall in their life time.

    see post 559

    But within their generation (matthew 24:33-34)

    I don't think you know what imminent means. It does not mean "far off".

    In post 508 you stated:

    "Because these are normal astronomical phenomena to which no one gives a thought and from which no one has anything to fear. If Jesus was referring to natural phenomena preceding His return, His Words would be meaningless."

    However, ancient peoples did pay attention to astronomical phenomena. In fact, its how the magi found Jesus in the manger.

    which data point did I specifically manipulate?

    Again, you are not reading the data correctly. Earthquakes from 1990 to 2018 did not increase in a statistically significant way.


    From the british geological survey: Is Earthquake Activity Increasing?

    "Recent devastating earthquakes in Haiti, Chile and China, as well as magnitude 7 plus earthquakes in Indonesia and California, might give the impression that earthquake activity is increasing. In fact, a quick look at earthquake statistics over the last twenty years shows that this is not the case. On average there are about fifteen earthquakes every year with a magnitude of 7 or greater. As with any quasi-random phenomena, the number of earthquakes each year varies slightly from this average, but in general, there are no dramatic variations. So far this year, there have been six magnitude 7+ earthquakes, in keeping with the annual rate."



    From The United States Geological Survey: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has naturally occurring earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up for a big one?

    "The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes."
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Used 1 time in Matt and 3 times in Luke of the Gospels. Used in 3 verses of Revelation.
    A few threads on this board:

    "OIKOUMENE"(#G3625) In Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Mistranslated?
    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    #3625 mentioned 15 times
    oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Revelation 3:10, Revelation 16:14.
    oikoumenh <3625> Mattthew 24:14, Luke 21:26, Acts 19:27
    oikoumenhn <3625> 8 times Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, Acts 17:6, 31, 24:5, Hebrews 1:6, 2:5, Revelation 12:9.

    Luke 2:1
    Became yet in the days, those, came out decree beside Caesar Augustus to be being registering every the being-homed/oikoumenhn <3625> .
    Luke 4:5
    And up-leading Him, he shows to Him all the Kingdoms of the being-homed/oikoumenhV <3625> in instant<4743> of time.
    =======
    Romans 10:18
    But I am saying 'no not they hear? Indeed-surely into all the land came-out the voices of them and into the every ends of the being-homed/oikoumenhV <3625> the declarations of them.

    Revelation 3:10
    That thou keep the Word of the under-remaining of Me and I thee shall be keeping out of the hour of the trial of the one being about to be coming upon of the whole being-homed/oikoumenhV <3625>, to try the ones homing/kat-oikountaV <2730> upon the land<1093>.
    Revelation 12:9
    So the great Dragon was cast out, that Serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole being-homed/οἰκουμένη<3625>;
    he was cast to the land, and his messenger were cast out with him.

    Revelation 16:14
    For they are spirits of demons, doing sings which is going out on the kings of the inhabited-house/oikoumenhV <3625>, whole, to be mobilizing/leading them into the battle of the day of the great, of the God, the Almighty.

    3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
    3626. oikouros oy-koo-ros' from 3624 and ouros (a guard; be "ware"); a stayer at home, i.e. domestically inclined (a "good housekeeper"):--keeper at home.
    3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
    3623. oikonomos oy-kon-om'-os from 3624 and the base of 3551; a house-distributor (i.e. manager), or overseer, i.e. an employee in that capacity; by extension, a fiscal agent (treasurer); figuratively, a preacher (of the Gospel):--chamberlain, governor, steward.
    3619. oikodome oy-kod-om-ay' feminine (abstract) of a compound of 3624 and the base of 1430; architecture, i.e. (concretely) a structure; figuratively, confirmation:--building, edify(-ication, -ing).
    3609. oikeios oy-ki'-os from 3624; domestic, i.e. (as noun), a relative, adherent:--(those) of the (his own) house(-hold).

    3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
    3303. men men a primary particle; properly, indicative of affirmation or concession (in fact); usually followed by a contrasted clause with 1161 (this one, the former, etc.):--even, indeed, so, some, truly, verily. Often compounded with other particles in an intensive or asseverative sense.
     
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  15. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your first citation has nothing to do with the Jewish people or the topic of this thread and your second citation does not suggest that Jewish DNA exists in everyone. It is simply about finding the descendants of the Israelites who were dispersed throughout the nations, but in no way suggests that all present-day Gentiles are of Jewish descent.

    If that were to be the case, then we should all be attempting to apply for Israeli citizenship and swear submission and allegiance to that nation and renounce our citizenship of nations in which we reside.
     
  16. pasifika

    pasifika Active Member

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    His seed will remain in them..1John 3:7-10.." Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is Righteous.
    The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

    The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devils work.

    No One who is born of God will continue to sin because God's seed remain in them, and they CANNOT GO ON SINNING, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BORN OF GOD.

    This is how we know who are the children of God are and who are the children of the devil are:

    Anyone who Does Not do what is right is NOT God's child, nor is anyone who does Not love their brother and sister...

    These are the characteristics of being a child of God and Abrahams offspring or children of the PROMISE...
    As, Galatians 4:28...Now you, brother's and sisters, like Isaac, are Children of Promise...
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly. The characteristic is "righteousness" as you've identified, which is the product of faith and obedience.

    DNA is irrelevant.
     
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  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The math:

    Abraham was an individual who goes far back in time.
    Abraham has descendants among present-day individuals.
    Abraham is thus an ancestor of all present-day individuals.

    The cited rabbi believes it does. He references DNA testing to confirm what the math has established.

    He is correct.

    There are more Jews living outside of Israel than inside it. Only a fraction of those outside possess Israeli citizenship.

    The remainder get along just fine without it, and so do we.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The thing is; the Jews, the House of Judah, have retained their identity, while the House of Israel has lost the knowledge of their ancestry. As God decreed it. Deuteronomy 4:27
    This proves there is more than the total mixing that jgr promotes, people can and do know their heritage. Look at any of the indigenous peoples of the world; they know their history thru oral traditions going back for thousands of years.

    As for the current State of Israel, thinking we should join them, is a total anathema, as they are what Jesus said they are: Revelation 3:9, Matthew 8:12
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Not without a DNA test, and those DNA tests prove that many today are direct descendants of Abraham, and or Jacob.




    Are you denying what did Paul said below about genealogies ?

    1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

    Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


    The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in the first verse of the New Testament, in Matthew 1:1.
    This fact is confirmed above by Paul, and also in Galatians 3:16, and by Christ in Luke 24:25-27.


    John the Baptist revealed this to his own people in the verse below.

    Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


    .
     
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