A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

Ken-1122

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And for the umpteenth time, what would that entail?
What difference does it make? Do you need to know what it entails when a person wants to be referred to as a Zi, Xi, Sie, Eir, or any of the other non-binary made up terms? Do their explanation require you approval before you refer to them this way? Why do you need to know what I feel being a Leprechaun entails before you are willing to identify me as one?
See, you just wanted to throw some nonsense out there and call it an analogy. But you can't explain what I'd have to actually do, so how is that a comparison? A transgender woman wants me to refer to her specifically as "she". What does a transleprechaun persona want me to refer to them specifically as?
If you dont like leprechaun, how about a 100 year old man or a 12 year old girl? Would you be willing to refer to me as one of those?

No, you do have a problem with referring to a transgender woman (biological male) as "she" and a transgender man (biological female) as "he". You're trying to use the folks who invent new pronouns as an excuse to not do even that. I'm keeping up fine.
If a biological man tells me he is a woman, how am I supposed to know he is not? I have no choice but to assume he is telling me the truth thus there would be no problem.
 
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thecolorsblend

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How about if we just don’t address it? When referring to men vs women, when deciding which public restroom or shower facility to use, when unsure to call someone a ma'am or sir, instead of assuming gender, why not just assume sex? The difference? Sex refers to biology, (XX vs XY chromosomes, sex organs, etc) where as gender refers to perceived social roles based on sex.

When I speak to people, if I use the pronoun he or she, I’m referring to their sex not their gender. I’m making an assumption of their biology, not whatever confusion they might have going on inside of their heads. If a biological woman identifies as a man, she shouldn’t assume I am addressing her identification when I call her she, this woman should assume I am referring to her biology.

Does this make sense? Your thoughts?

Ken
Isn't the better solution to simply send the person to psychological therapy?
 
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Moral Orel

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What difference does it make? Do you need to know what it entails when a person wants to be referred to as a Zi, Xi, Sie, Eir, or any of the other non-binary made up terms? Do their explanation require you approval before you refer to them this way? Why do you need to know what I feel being a Leprechaun entails before you are willing to identify me as one?
The difference is how much trouble you expect me to go through. A trans person is simply asking me to switch which pronoun I might be inclined to use. I'm still going to use some pronoun, who cares which one. If a guy comes up to me and says, "I'd prefer that when you refer to me you always say, "Johnathon the thirty-five year old caucasian male born in Indianapolis Indiana" I'm not going to do that. I don't care that it is all factual and "real" as you put it, it's an unreasonably troublesome request. Swapping "he" for "she" is no big deal. So what would you be asking of me if you're a transleprechaun?
If a biological man tells me he is a woman, how am I supposed to know he is not? I have no choice but to assume he is telling me the truth thus there would be no problem.
And if you know someone is a trans man or woman, you're going to point that out every time you use a pronoun to refer to them. Oh, once you've explained to them that they totally shouldn't be offended. Why? Why not just use the "he" or the "she" that they prefer?
 
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SkyWriting

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How about if we just don’t address it? When referring to men vs women, when deciding which public restroom or shower facility to use, when unsure to call someone a ma'am or sir, instead of assuming gender, why not just assume sex? The difference? Sex refers to biology, (XX vs XY chromosomes, sex organs, etc) where as gender refers to perceived social roles based on sex.When I speak to people, if I use the pronoun he or she, I’m referring to their sex not their gender. I’m making an assumption of their biology, not whatever confusion they might have going on inside of their heads. If a biological woman identifies as a man, she shouldn’t assume I am addressing her identification when I call her she, this woman should assume I am referring to her biology.


When you are talking to them, you won't be saying "he" or "she".
You don't need to say Mr or Ms either. You can say the name they
offer you or just "Hello!"

When you talk about them, you can use whatever name they offer you
when introduced.
 
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SkyWriting

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And if you know someone is a trans man or woman, you're going to point that out every time you use a pronoun to refer to them. Oh, once you've explained to them that they totally shouldn't be offended. Why? Why not just use the "he" or the "she" that they prefer?

They'd prefer you use their first name, most likely.
 
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SkyWriting

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The difference is how much trouble you expect me to go through. A trans person is simply asking me to switch which pronoun I might be inclined to use.

Likely, they prefer their name.
 
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Ken-1122

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The difference is how much trouble you expect me to go through. A trans person is simply asking me to switch which pronoun I might be inclined to use. I'm still going to use some pronoun, who cares which one.
So that is where we disagree. I refuse to use the pronoun that indicates Gender as discribed and used today.

And if you know someone is a trans man or woman, you're going to point that out every time you use a pronoun to refer to them.

A Trans man is still a biological woman; do you agree?
 
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Ken-1122

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When you are talking to them, you won't be saying "he" or "she".
You don't need to say Mr or Ms either. You can say the name they
offer you or just "Hello!"

When you talk about them, you can use whatever name they offer you
when introduced.
Yeah I already pointed that out on an earlier post. Good point though
 
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SkyWriting

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A Trans man is still a biological woman; do you agree?

We don't know without pulling on the waist band and peering down their underwear.
It's not good form in polite society.
If you are their physician, then ok.
 
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stevevw

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I'm not really looking to satisfy people looking for something to complain about, I'm looking to fix the issue, and when you take the subjective perceptions out of the picture, it seems to fix the issue IMO
Yes I agree. It is the subjectivity in gender ideology that is causing the confusion. In all other issues we use the scientific facts to determine things. But it seems for some issues we allow peoples personal feelings to be the measure.

If we applied this to other areas such as body image we would be be denying an important reality that may be the difference between life and death. For example if a grossly thin person had anorexia nervosa and perceived themself as being overweight and we were banned from stating the truth of their state in order not to offend them this would not be helpful. Then medical records would be stating that there is no issue with their weight which would be misleading and lead to misdiagnosis and further confusion.
 
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stevevw

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We don't know without pulling on the waist band and peering down their underwear.
It's not good form in polite society.
If you are their physician, then ok.
At least you are agreeing with the way we have determined male and female for years at birth by checking their physical status (genitals).
 
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Moral Orel

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So that is where we disagree. I refuse to use the pronoun that indicates Gender as discribed and used today.
Why do you care? You can use pronouns to mean gender and refuse to recognize the "new" pronouns, so don't bring up that red herring again.
A Trans man is still a biological woman; do you agree?
Ya, so what? What do I care about someone's biology?
 
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SkyWriting

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At least you are agreeing with the way we have determined male and female for years at birth by checking their physical status (genitals).
"Man" and "Woman" are the gender types at issue. "Male and female" are the scientific terms for the sex roles in biology and are not gender types. There can be male and female reproductive parts on the same organism for reproduction purposes.
 
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stevevw

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"Man" and "Woman" are the gender types at issue. "Male and female" are the scientific terms for the sex roles in biology and are not gender types. There can be male and female reproductive parts on the same organism for reproduction purposes.
Science recognizes there are two sexes at birth male and female. Gender ideology is based on a subjective feeling where people can decide who they think they are and is not based on scientific fact. What some want to do is make gender ideology the main way to determine a persons sex and claim there is no biological male and female. That is confusing the issue by mixing subjective feelings with scientific facts.

The possibility of there being male and female reproductive parts on the same person is a very rare physical occurrence but it has nothing to do with gender and does not change the scientific fact that there are only two sexes biologically. People try to use this rare anomaly as a way to support gender ideology. But this still would not work as it would only support 3 possible options when gender ideology claim that there are as many as 36 possible genders which is growing every year. This points to something that is based on an arbitrary feeling that has no basis in fact. A person can wake up one day and claim they are the opposite sex and there is no way to measure or verify this. This is leading to all sorts of problems and legal ramification.
 
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SkyWriting

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Science recognizes there are two sexes at birth male and female. Gender ideology is based on a subjective feeling where people can decide who they think they are and is not based on scientific fact. What some want to do is make gender ideology the main way to determine a persons sex and claim there is no biological male and female. That is confusing the issue by mixing subjective feelings with scientific facts.

The possibility of there being male and female reproductive parts on the same person is a very rare physical occurrence but it has nothing to do with gender and does not change the scientific fact that there are only two sexes biologically. People try to use this rare anomaly as a way to support gender ideology. But this still would not work as it would only support 3 possible options when gender ideology claim that there are as many as 36 possible genders which is growing every year. This points to something that is based on an arbitrary feeling that has no basis in fact. A person can wake up one day and claim they are the opposite sex and there is no way to measure or verify this. This is leading to all sorts of problems and legal ramification.

Well, if you are a male, yet you identify with being a female much better, there are "all sorts of problems in your life" and one that can be easily eliminated is other people making the decision for you what clothes you should wear and how you should wear your hair.

That one is the easiest to grind in the garbage disposal and flush with lots of water.
I'm not sure what those other people are measuring the size of your pehis for anyway.
Like I said, your doctor need be the only one in the know.

1% of all people have sex organs that are not within "normal" range.
 
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