Grip Docility
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When I said, "no one" I was not limiting that to people on the board, but meant those who are pro-Israel. My apologies for not making that clear. I could have done better on that.
But it is unfair to characterize those who support Israel as thinking that Israel needs to be "propped up." That is a constant smear used against us and it simply isn't true. We simply uphold the biblical position that Israel was the nation chosen by God to be a light to the world and that role will one day be realized. That is not propping Israel up.
That is not true. Israel has a significant prophetic future and even now we are witnessing Israel being restored to their land, in complete defiance to Christians whose theology says that it is not supposed to happen.
The difference is that we can demonstrate the Trinity doctrine from the Bible. The concept of the Trinity can be actually be shown without twisting and perverting Scripture in order to do so.
"Spiritual Israel" doesn't exist in the sense that the Church is now Israel. To say that the Church is now Israel is based on some pretty sloppy exegesis. For example, Romans 9 identifies the true "Israel" as Jews who accepted the Messiah, as opposed to unbelieving Jews Paul identifies an Israel within Israel; he contrasts the Jews who accepted Jesus vs. those who do not and those who accept Jesus are the true Israelites.
Galatians 3 and 4 are not speaking to who "Israel" is. Galatians was written to combat the Judaizing heretics who were claiming that Gentiles had to convert to the Jewish religion and become physical converts to the Jewish religion (through circumcision) in addition to faith in Jesus. Paul's point was that the Gentile believers are the seed of Abraham by faith in Jesus. "Seed of Abraham" doesn't translate into "Israel." He didn't say they were Israel; he said they were the seed of Abraham by faith.
Neither of those verses say what you claim they say. None of them say that the Church is the Kingdom. They are not one and the same. When Jesus returns, He will set up the Kingdom on earth. That is the prophetic kingdom. While we are in the spiritual realm of salvation where Jesus is King, there is a physical, prophetic Kingdom that is coming that Jesus will establish on earth.
This ^
After all, Messianic scriptures were expected to have been fulfilled in one shot, by the Jewish Leaders, in Jesus’ day.
Instead of dividing scripture properly and seeing things occur in phases, they lumped it all together and expected a conquering Messiah.
This doesn’t erase the fact that the disciples asked this...
So when they had come together, they asked Him, “Lord, are You restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”
Jesus literally responds this...
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or periods that the Father has set by His own authority.
There, we have Jesus nodding to National Israel based Apostles that there will be a time their question will come to fruition!
Then, Jesus follows with a, “but, for now” “before that time”, sort of statement...
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Acts 1:6-8 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:6-8 - Holman Christian Standard Bible
The last statement is clearly about the coming time of the Gentiles, which Paul and Jesus confirm will have a close... (Romans 11:25 ; Luke 21:24)
Though this is as PLAIN as day, what do we have? People lumping all Prophecy together, ignoring Scriptural timeline and becoming Eisegetic in their teachings and understandings.
Just like Israel, part 1, the Gentiles are all saying that it’s all about them and there is no other group God will look after!
Anyhow, Well said!
After all, we have this text to remember...
“
He said, “Do you know why I’ve come to you? I must return at once to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I leave, the prince of Greece will come. No one has the courage to support me against them except Michael, your prince. However, I will tell you what is recorded in the book of truth.
Daniel 10:20-21 - Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 10:20-21 - Holman Christian Standard Bible
This is pretty important because we are told Israel has an appointed Arch Angel that fights for it. This is to Daniel and National Israel!
Makes sense, when we later read this...
Revelation 12:7-10 and later, this (Revelation 19:17)
Both those verses are bound to Israel, which salvation was ultimately provided to the Gentile BOC, through.
There’s even a 12 X 12 number of Jewish Tribes listed in Revelation.
Current western Logic... (If it disagrees with our theology, let’s spiritualize it)
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