Amillenialism and the nation of Israel

[mister rogers]

I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?

 

[Acts2:38]

I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?

People hold the Jewish nation as significant just like you mention. One reason for this, even if they know it or not, is that they think the Jewish nation never received its promised kingdom. However, we know thats not true because the book of Joshua tells us they received ALL their land promise.

People also get confused I suppose because they think a literal Jewish nation is mentioned in the NT. It's not. It is a "spiritual" one. The church IS the kingdom that Jesus was putting in place Matthew 16:18-19 (church and kingdom are used interchangeably). "There is neither Jew nor Greek" is even more support to the "spiritual" kingdom of Israel and not a physical.

We could go all night into the book of Revelation. People want to make literal what shouldnt be literal. The book is heavily riddled with symbolic talk, almost all of it complete except of course Christs return in the clouds to take everyone and the world and heavens burning with fervent heat.

 

[eleos1954]

I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?

In Christian end-times theology (eschatology), postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (Latin post-) the "Millennium", a Golden Age in which Christian ethics prosper.

amillenial - is the belief the 1,000 years will be His reign on earth. That is in error as well.

The 1,000 years (millennium) starts when Jesus returns and the 1,000 years are all the saved (resurrected and those living at the time are translated) and is spent in heaven. After the 1,000 years (in heaven) then the 2nd resurrection (of the lost) happens and things move along from there.

I do not find any biblical prophetic significance of this last century in regard to the Jewish nation. Also, do not believe the temple will ever be rebuilt. Even if it was rebuilt Jesus would not enter it. Jesus is in the sanctuary in heaven being our high priest there.

Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not of this creation.

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

Hebrews 8:2
and who ministers in the sanctuary and true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.

God Bless.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?

Those in Israel right now do have one more purpose and that is for all nations to gather against them to take them, after that the Lord comes in the spirit and drives out all the peoples who too Jerusalem by standing on the Mt of Olives to part it and create a great valley that the people of God will flee to. This will be the kingdom of God on earth until Christ's coming in the flesh with fire to destroy the heavens(1st and second parts) and the earth.
(1) Jerusalem will be taken (Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16)
(2) The residue of the poeple will not be cut off (Zech 14:2)
(3) Christ spiritually stands on the Mt.of Olives and drives out the nations who took Jerusalem (Zech 14:3-4, Ezekiel 11:23)
(4) People of God will flee to the valley of the Mt. (Zech 14:5)
(5) Small stone of (Daniel 2:44-45)
(6) That was cut out without human hands (Ezekiel 9:5-11, Daniel 2:45)
(7) These are those that escape of them (Isaiah 66:18-19)
(8) Who Gather in the chosen of God into the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 66:18-20, Ezekiel 11:16-20)
(9) These are "Lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:19-22)
(10) This is during the great tribulation (Revelation Chapters 15, 16, and 17:1-13, 13:5-18)
(11) The small Stone/Kingdom of (Daniel 2:44)
(12) Becomes a great mountain (Daniel 2:35)
(13) That causes the world government to fall (Daniel 2:35)
(14) These things come to pass before Yahshua comes/destroys the Heavens, earth, and wicked with fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17,26:21,2:9; Zephaniah 1:18,2:1-3,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 2 Thess 1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:10-13; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9).


So those in the earthly nation of Jerusalem have at least one more purpose in relation to the end times. That is to be taken.

 

[mister rogers]

People hold the Jewish nation as significant just like you mention. One reason for this, even if they know it or not, is that they think the Jewish nation never received its promised kingdom. However, we know thats not true because the book of Joshua tells us they received ALL their land promise.

People also get confused I suppose because they think a literal Jewish nation is mentioned in the NT. It's not. It is a "spiritual" one. The church IS the kingdom that Jesus was putting in place Matthew 16:18-19 (church and kingdom are used interchangeably). "There is neither Jew nor Greek" is even more support to the "spiritual" kingdom of Israel and not a physical.

We could go all night into the book of Revelation. People want to make literal what shouldnt be literal. The book is heavily riddled with symbolic talk, almost all of it complete except of course Christs return in the clouds to take everyone and the world and heavens burning with fervent heat.

I understand and agree with everything you said there. That being said, I still find it quite amazing that after nearly 2 millenia and near extinction they've returned and are a nation again. There's gotta be something to that. Just can't put my finger on it.

 

[mister rogers]

In Christian end-times theology (eschatology), postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (Latin post-) the "Millennium", a Golden Age in which Christian ethics prosper.

amillenial - is the belief the 1,000 years will be His reign on earth. That is in error as well.

The 1,000 years (millennium) starts when Jesus returns and the 1,000 years are all the saved (resurrected and those living at the time are translated) and is spent in heaven. After the 1,000 years (in heaven) then the 2nd resurrection (of the lost) happens and things move along from there.

I do not find any biblical prophetic significance of this last century in regard to the Jewish nation. Also, do not believe the temple will ever be rebuilt. Even if it was rebuilt Jesus would not enter it. Jesus is in the sanctuary in heaven being our high priest there.

Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not of this creation.

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

Hebrews 8:2
and who ministers in the sanctuary and true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.

God Bless.

Everyone amillenial I've encountered has the view that the 1000 years is symbolic of the entire Church age, and/or that it is symbolic of the those reigning with Christ from heaven, until His second coming. Hence the term post-millenial would be more fitting, being that the second coming occurs after (post) the millenium. The only sense in which amillenials see it as "no" (a-) millenium is that it is not a literal 1000 year period. But yes, postmillenialism as people hear the term these days automatically assumes the idea of a literal 1000 year golden age before the second coming.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Those in Israel right now do have one more purpose and that is for all nations to gather against them to take them, after that the Lord comes in the spirit and drives out all the peoples who too Jerusalem by standing on the Mt of Olives to part it and create a great valley that the people of God will flee to. This will be the kingdom of God on earth until Christ's coming in the flesh with fire to destroy the heavens(1st and second parts) and the earth.
(1) Jerusalem will be taken (Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16)
(2) The residue of the poeple will not be cut off (Zech 14:2)
(3) Christ spiritually stands on the Mt.of Olives and drives out the nations who took Jerusalem (Zech 14:3-4, Ezekiel 11:23)
(4) People of God will flee to the valley of the Mt. (Zech 14:5)
(5) Small stone of (Daniel 2:44-45)
(6) That was cut out without human hands (Ezekiel 9:5-11, Daniel 2:45)
(7) These are those that escape of them (Isaiah 66:18-19)
(8) Who Gather in the chosen of God into the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 66:18-20, Ezekiel 11:16-20)
(9) These are "Lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:19-22)
(10) This is during the great tribulation (Revelation Chapters 15, 16, and 17:1-13, 13:5-18)
(11) The small Stone/Kingdom of (Daniel 2:44)
(12) Becomes a great mountain (Daniel 2:35)
(13) That causes the world government to fall (Daniel 2:35)
(14) These things come to pass before Yahshua comes/destroys the Heavens, earth, and wicked with fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17,26:21,2:9; Zephaniah 1:18,2:1-3,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 2 Thess 1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:10-13; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9).


So those in the earthly nation of Jerusalem have at least one more purpose in relation to the end times. That is to be taken.

I'm sure not sufficiently to one satisfaction, but would it really matter to someone who already has their mind made up and refuses to be confused by the Biblical "facts?"

The Scriptures say clearly the one that fought against the nations was the Lord, and in that day His feet would stand upon the mount of Olives before Jerusalem. This was Christ at His first advent.

Matthew 21:1

• "And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,"

Matthew 24:3

• "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Christ made His triumphant Entry AS KING into Jerusalem from the mount of Olives. Surely you don't believe this is all coincidence? Their King had come, He did fulfill Scripture, He did rule from Jerusalem, and Everlasting waters (Holy Spirit) did flow. It's not a future occurrence in 70AD or modern nation of Israel, it is Done!

That's why so many people can't make sense of the Bible. They look at it as simply a history book.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I understand and agree with everything you said there. That being said, I still find it quite amazing that after nearly 2 millenia and near extinction they've returned and are a nation again. There's gotta be something to that. Just can't put my finger on it.

David is a "type" of Christ, agreed? Christ is the David that will rule Israel forever. You should not think David is coming back to rule in the Middle East, especially after you said that the nation of Israel was not in the Middle East for nearly 2 millennia, do you? And if the kingdom in the Old Testament was Israel's forever, how then did Christ say it was taken away from them? ...it makes no sense!

Matthew 21:42-43

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

The kingdom representation of Covenant Israel is taken from the Old Testament Congregation nation of Israel at the Cross, and was given to the New Testament Congregation, the Church. No where in the Scripture that the Old Testament Congregation will be restored as a nation in the Middle East and expected to receive the kingdom representation again. Listen to what Christ said about the Old Testament congregation:

Matthew 21:19 KJV
[19] And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

But the church has been producing fruits, as stated in Matthew 21:43 above, since it received kingdom representative from Isreal. That is why Israel as a nation did not have fruit grow again... FOREVER! But the Premillennialists do not want to hear this.

If what Premillennialism said about the modern nation Israel were true, then obviously the kingdom could have "NEVER" been taken away from her! Vis-à-vis, it is not true what THEY say. It is what some call, Jewish Dreams and it's what the Apostle Paul called Jewish Fables. It's what we call Dispensational Premillennialism which is what God calls, false teachings.

 

[crossnote]

Maybe the sun, stars and moon are just figurative in this passage...

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:35-37)

Also, It looks like Jesus will be swinging by the Mt of Olives in His return...but maybe all that is figurative too...

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(Zec 14:2-4)

Oops, I guess that is some sort of non physical Jerusalem as well.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?

Do you believe we are in the 1,000 year Millennium now?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Oops, I guess that is some sort of non physical Jerusalem as well.

True! Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 is not to be understood as a physical city of Jerusalem, rather she is a congregation of Israel the body of Christ:

Observe:

Zechariah 14:8

• "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

Christ is that living waters that went out from Jerusalem. This is talking about Him going forth to Jews (former sea) and Gentile (Hinder sea). The former and hinder pertains to the "first and the last" that Christ references in His sermons, as it relates to salvation first to the Jews and also to the Gentiles. The Hebrew word "former" illustrating the Jews being the former or first of the sea, and the word "hinder" being those who come after or behind. In other words, the last. The living waters now go out to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and this seems also to be illustrated in the context of verse that follows.

Zechariah 14:9

• "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

I believe this illustrates that there is no longer the division of Jew and Gentile, but we are all Israel, one body of Christ and one Lord, the Saviour of all the earth. And Gentiles who were before not His people will now be His people in The New Testament:

Ephesians 4:4-6

• "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
• One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
• One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

So I believe that Zechariah 14:8 is primarily addressing "that" mystery that is revealed here, namely, that salvation is going forth to all the world, and is not primarily just for the Jews, national Israel or physical city of Jerusalem. And the kingdom (congregation) of Israel is extended to the whole world so that both the former and latter sea is nourished by these living waters that go out from Jerusalem.

 

[crossnote]

That is why Israel as a nation did not have fruit grow again... FOREVER! But the Premillennialists do not want to hear this.

Sort of the same reason Amills don't want to hear this...

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:25-29)

 

[mister rogers]

Don't know. All kinds of good points. Also curious about this subject in regards to "until the fullness of the Gentiles" (Romans 11). I've usually been been historic premill (Not dispensational though; and definitely not pre-trib rapture). Partial-preterist amill has made a bit of sense to me lately though. BUT there's this whole thing with the return of the Jews there that keeps me wondering if historic premill may still be correct, or a combo of what I see from typical amill and historic premill. I really dont say I am any particular view for sure anymore. But I know Jesus is coming back, and no one gets saved without believing in Him, even Jews.

 

[crossnote]

True! Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 is not to be understood as a physical city of Jerusalem, rather she is a congregation of Israel the body of Christ:

Observe:

Zechariah 14:8

• "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

Christ is that living waters that went out from Jerusalem. This is talking about Him going forth to Jews (former sea) and Gentile (Hinder sea). The former and hinder pertains to the "first and the last" that Christ references in His sermons, as it relates to salvation first to the Jews and also to the Gentiles. The Hebrew word "former" illustrating the Jews being the former or first of the sea, and the word "hinder" being those who come after or behind. In other words, the last. The living waters now go out to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and this seems also to be illustrated in the context of verse that follows.

Zechariah 14:9

• "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

I believe this illustrates that there is no longer the division of Jew and Gentile, but we are all Israel, one body of Christ and one Lord, the Saviour of all the earth. And Gentiles who were before not His people will now be His people in The New Testament:

Ephesians 4:4-6

• "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
• One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
• One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

So I believe that Zechariah 14:8 is primarily addressing "that" mystery that is revealed here, namely, that salvation is going forth to all the world, and is not primarily just for the Jews, national Israel or physical city of Jerusalem. And the kingdom (congregation) of Israel is extended to the whole world so that both the former and latter sea is nourished by these living waters that go out from Jerusalem.

Problem with spiritualizing texts like that, is they are thrown open to men's imaginations and conjecture.
Nope all the prophecies concerning Christ's first Coming were fulfilled literally, so there is no reason to believe it will be different with His 2nd Coming.

 

[ewq1938]

But yes, postmillenialism as people hear the term these days automatically assumes the idea of a literal 1000 year golden age before the second coming.

Except that "golden age" cannot happen until Christ returns and defeats the AC and his empire so what we find is Christ returning before the thousand years starts. That's found in Rev 19-20 and the end of Rev 2.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you believe we are in the 1,000 year Millennium now?

I do not know about Mister Rogers but I like to respond to your question:

The symbolic 1,000-year kingdom started since Pentecost where Christ sent His Witnesses (Christians) to the ends of the earth with the Salvation message of the Gospel. This millennial kingdom will last until all that God had intended to be sealed in their foreheads (saved/secured) has been sealed.

Revelation 7:1-4 KJV
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Satan had been bound at the Cross and have been restrained by the Lord until the building of His Church on Earth is finished, THEN he will be loosened to bring judgment upon the unfaithful congregation prior to Second Coming. The symbolic 144,000 signifies ALL the people who have been saved in Christ from among the nations, including Israel.

Based on my observance on the spiritual condition of God's congregations that are supposed to represent His Kingdom and the world is affected by it, I believe that the 1,000 years has ended that we are currently in a short season of Satan's loosening that is also called the Great Tribulation. I believe we are very close to the Second Coming of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[crossnote]

But I know Jesus is coming back, and no one gets saved without believing in Him, even Jews.

I guess you can always go with the full preterist view and say Jesus has already come back in 70AD. (but I wouldn't lol)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sort of the same reason Amills don't want to hear of...

Not me because I know what the Lord was talking about.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.(Rom 11:25-29)

In their faulty eschatology, the Jew is NOT first, but after the Gentiles, which is in direct contradiction to the written word.

Romans 11:25-26

• "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
• And so all Israel shall be Saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

It is a mystery that many people don't understand. God promised that blindness would be upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and so (literally, thusly) shall all Israel be saved. Not national Israel, but Spiritual Israel! It doesn't say, "and after that, I shall save Israel." Dispensationalists obviously "ADD" that to God's word, but it actually is not there.

Unfortunately, some Christians are still ignorant of the full import of "this mystery" to this very day. The controversy comes in the phrase, 'Blindness in part has happened to Israel till the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.' Many people are confused as to what this means. But it is simply building upon what Paul has just previously stated in the chapter. He says he doesn't want them to be "ignorant of the mystery" which is that the Gentiles are to be part of this same covenant and 'One Body,' which is Christ, the Israel of God. He has spoken of the revelation of the mystery that has always been God's plan but had been kept secret. The secret that the Gentile nations would be made a part of Israel, grafted into the very same New Covenant Israel (represented symbolically by the Olive Tree of Romans 11).

Ephesians 1:9-10

• "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in Himself:
• That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

In the fullness of time, it was revealed that the Gentiles would also be a part of the commonwealth of Israel. That is the mystery kept a secret from the foundation of the world but is now revealed. For example, to the Jew first, and then the Gentiles. Not Jew, Gentile and then back to Jew again, but to one, and then the other. Period! And that is what this chapter is talking about. They were first, now they're last, as it's now the Gentiles turn. There is no special dispensation of time for the salvation of Jewish people after the fullness of the Gentiles come in. Understand, the word says the Jew is first (not first and third), and then the Gentiles grafted in And thus (in this way) all Israel shall be saved. That is it! So all nations have the same opportunity to be children of God. God has revealed the mystery that has been hidden from other ages, and Paul doesn't want the Romans to be ignorant or un-knowledgeable about this mystery. Gentiles are indeed fellow heirs with the Jews. There is no separation, there is one body, one Head, One Olive tree, One new Covenant Israel. The same mystery Paul wrote to the Ephesians in explaining:

Ephesians 3:3-6

• "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
• Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the
  mystery of Christ)
• Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
• That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and OF THE SAME BODY, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

Jews are not a different body as Dispensationalists unbiblically surmise, they are of the same body. The Jews are not coming in after this dispensation, they are not a different elect or a different chosen of God, and they are not a different congregation. The Gentiles are not obtaining a separate inheritance apart from the Jews, but the Gentiles are fellow heirs of the same body of Jews, and partaking of the 'same' promises, the same fatness of the Olive Tree which unambiguously[ is Israel. They are being grafted into Covenant Israel, and when the fullness of them be come in, So (in this manner) all Israel shall be saved. Even history shows salvation went to the Jews first, but now also goes to the Gentiles.

That Greek word translated "so" [houto] in Romans chapter 11 (so all Israel shall be saved) is never translated "then", meaning "following this" or after this. It is a word which means Thusly or "in this manner." That is a fact which anyone should check for themselves!

 

[TribulationSigns]

I guess you can always go with the full preterist view and say Jesus has already come back in 70AD. (but I wouldn't lol)

The Preterism, whether partial, full, lite, or special, is a false doctrine. They, like the Dispensaltialisists, share the same blindness like the unfaithful Jews of Old who are expecting for a physical kingdom, city, stones, thone, nation, etc. Christ's kingdom is not of this world. Keep that in mind.

 

[crossnote]

Not me because I know what the Lord was talking about.

Then why did you leave this part out in your reply?

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:27-29)

I realize Jews who reject Christ will perish, but God still has His remnant...

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(Rom 11:1-5)