What commandments is Jesus talking about?

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Amen to that. That means you have no point in promoting the Old Covenant.

Here is the rest of the post you left out. Did you want to respond to it or ignore it again?

We are not in the OLD COVENANT now we are in the NEW COVENANT. The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Sorry brother only sent in love. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. In fact the scriptures go on to say that all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do no practice sin (breaking God's Commandments)

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

JOHN 8:34 [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN.

Jesus wants to make you free from sin [BREAKING GODS LAW]...

JOHN 8:36 [36], IF THE SON OF MAN SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

1 JOHN 3:6 [6], Whosoaver abides in him SINS NOT; WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NEITHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.

1 JOHN 2:4 [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEP NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:7 [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTOEUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN HAS HE IS RIGHTOUES.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTRS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.

1 JOHN 3:8-10 [8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL:whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

…………..

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him.

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Only sent in love brother. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It's OK if you don't understand. Do I need to post in large letters or something? No we don't have permission to sin being under grace. John says if we do we have and advocate with the Father - 1 JN 1:9. In my way of saying things you took that as easy cheesy cheap grace. That would be very wrong. John assures us there is a way to correct things. Paul sinned and you claim he was still a Christian while writing a major portion of the NT.

Ok this is getting fun. So now your changing your mind by saying it is not ok to sin. So in essence now your also saying God's 10 commandments are not abolished because through God's LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you now agree that God's 10 commandments are not abolished *MATTHEW 5:17 then what argument have you now got?
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Tone
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Here is the rest of the post you left out. Did you want to respond to it or ignore it again?

I will try and respond para by para.

We are not in the OLD COVENANT now we are in the NEW COVENANT. The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?
The Law is our tutor to lead us to Christ. But once we have Christ, we don't need the tutor any longer. The application of the Law in Christian evangelism is to activate the conscience of lost sinners as to their condition - that they are rebels against God and deserve wrath, punishment and hell.

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
As I said, it is to bring conviction of sin in the conscience of lost sinners so that when presented with the gospel of Christ, it is now good news for them.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
This is what is preached to lost sinners to show them their condition before God. Once a person has received Christ, he doesn't need this message any longer because the knowledge of the Law has done its work to alert the sinner to his lost condition, and so having accepted the gospel and received Christ, he doesn't need to have the Law presented to him any longer.

Sorry brother only sent in love. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. In fact the scriptures go on to say that all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do no practice sin (breaking God's Commandments)
True conversion to Christ fixes the person's will to God's will and he trusts the Holy Spirit to work sanctification within him. His new heart abhors sin and seeks holiness, but he does not try to be holy himself. He trusts the Holy Spirit to work holiness in him.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

JOHN 8:34 [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN.

Jesus wants to make you free from sin [BREAKING GODS LAW]...

JOHN 8:36 [36], IF THE SON OF MAN SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

1 JOHN 3:6 [6], Whosoaver abides in him SINS NOT; WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NEITHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.

1 JOHN 2:4 [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEP NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:7 [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTOEUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN HAS HE IS RIGHTOUES.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTRS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.

1 JOHN 3:8-10 [8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL:whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
This is teaching directed at lost sinners who still have to come and receive Christ. It is for believers to give them a passion for lost souls.

…………..

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Only sent in love brother. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.
The rest of your post is just a repeat of what you said before. Genuinely converted believers will not continue in unrepentant sin. They will hate and abhor sin and will confess any failures to resist temptation.

If you are teaching what you are posting here as the gospel, then it is another gospel and not the gospel of Christ. You are aligning yourself with the Jewish believers who went to the Gentile churches and taught them that they had to comply with the Mosaic Law in order to be saved. Paul wrote Galatians to totally refute that teaching.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I saw your previous post, but it was difficult to respond to because of the complexity of it.
It is ok brother. You can take your time with it. I did agree with most of your earlier post in post # 101 linked, but was not sure on some sections so was asking if you can clarify some sections in your earlier post in case I was getting some misunderstandings on what you were saying before I would reply further. As to your questions for me, I will provide some comments below.
1. How do you define unrepentant sin in a Christian believer?
Someone that has been BORN AGAIN repented of their sins and given themselves to JESUS but then after some time turn away from God's WORD to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. Or someone that is GROWING in GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of Gods WORD, who learns more of the WORD of GOD then finds out that something he did not KNOW earlier was sin is sin but does not want to give their SIN up in order to have a closer walk with JESUS. *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8.
2. How to you actually define repentance?
The gift of God's Spirit's calling and conviction of sin resulting in a sorrowful turning away from (known) sin (breaking God's LAW) by confession to God for breaking his law and seeking God's forgiveness through faith in God's WORD to walk according to God's WORD. *1 JOHN 3:3-10

HEBREW; נחם; nôcham From H5162; ruefulness, that is, stop or cease: - repentance.
GREEK; μετάνοια; metanoia From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation) sorrow
3. Are those who are sinlessly perfect the only ones saved?
There are people at all different stages of the Christian walk and a different understanding of God's WORD. When JESUS returns we read of all mankind including those who do not follow God, the following,

REVELATIONS 22:11 [11], He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

For the Christian at whatever stage of their experience and walk with God, it is God's WORD in us as we believe and follow his WORD that changes our lives *JOHN 15:1-7; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; GALATIANS 5:16. Some will be FORGIVEN *1 CORINTHIANS 2:13 (justified through faith) some will walk in God's RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 5:21; ROMANS 6:13-20; ROMANS 8:4; 1 CORINTHIANS 15:54; 1 JOHN 3:7-10 and some will be Holy as God is Holy *1 PETER 1:16.
4. How do you explain the Law being set aside because it failed to make anyone righteous?
God's law does not make anyone righteous, but it has not been set aside either. God's LAW in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It's purpose is to teach us the meaning of MATTHEW 9:12-13 and that we are all SINNERS in need of a Savior to save us from the wages (death penalty) and the power of SIN (sinful nature) *JOHN 8:31-36; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16. This is God's NEW COVANANT promise in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31 and the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel *JOHN 8:31-36.
5.How does the righteousness of Christ affect the believer?
God's LAW (rightouesness; PSALMS 119:172) leads us to the foot of the CROSS of Christ where we are without excuse where all we have is the promise of God's WORD where we see God's LOVE for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and by beholding by faith in God's Word we become changed to love him because he first loved us *PSALMS 119:172; GALATIANS 3:22-25; HEBREWS 8:10-12. We now follow him not to be saved but because we have been Born again to LOVE. God has changed our heart to LOVE and now we follow him because we LOVE him *ROMANS 13:8-10; JOHN 14:15
6. If Christ kept the Law perfectly so He could be our perfect and sinless Substitute for us, and took God complete wrath and punishment on Himself for our sinfulness, then how could we now be punished for sin?
If we have repented from our sins and by faith in God's WORD alone been FORGIVEN and cleansed from our sins *1 JOHN 1:9 we are now free to walk in God's Spirit to LOVE *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

ROMANS 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

However it is only those who endure (BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD) to the END that will be saved *MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13.

According to God's WORD as posted earlier; all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Hope this helps to clarify your questions.

God bless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
It is ok brother. You can take your time with it. I did agree with most of your earlier post in post # 101 linked, but was not sure on some sections so was asking if you can clarify some sections in your earlier post in case I was getting some misunderstandings on what you were saying before I would reply further. As to your questions for me, I will provide some comments below.

Someone that has been BORN AGAIN repented of their sins and given themselves to JESUS but then after some time turn away from God's WORD to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. Or someone that is GROWING in GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of Gods WORD, who learns more of the WORD of GOD then finds out that something he did not KNOW earlier was sin is sin but does not want to give their SIN up in order to have a closer walk with JESUS. *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

The gift of God's Spirit's calling and conviction of sin resulting in a sorrowful turning away from (known) sin (breaking God's LAW) by confession to God for breaking his law and seeking God's forgiveness through faith in God's WORD to walk according to God's WORD. *1 JOHN 3:3-10

HEBREW; נחם; nôcham From H5162; ruefulness, that is, stop or cease: - repentance.
GREEK; μετάνοια; metanoia From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation) sorrow

There are people at all different stages of the Christian walk. When JESUS returns we read of all mankind the following,

REVELATIONS 22:11 [11], He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

For the Christian at whatever stage of their experience it is God's WORD in us as we believe and follow his WORD as we walk in God's Spirit *JOHN 15:1-7; PHILIPPIANS 2:13; GALATIANS 5:16.

God's law does not make anyone righteouss. God's LAW in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It's purpose is to teach us the meaning of MATTHEW 9:12-13 and that we are all SINNERS in need of a Savior to save us from the power of SIN *JOHN 8:31-36; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIONS 5:16, which is God's NEW COVANANT promise in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31.

It leads us to the CROSS of Christ where we see God's LOVE for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and by beholding by faith in God's Word we bemcome changed to love him because he first loved us *PSALMS 119:172; GALATIANS 3:22-25; HEBREWS 8:10-12. We now follow him not to be saved but because we LOVE him *ROMANS 13:8-10; JOHN 14:15

If we have repented from our sins and by faith in God's WORD alone been FORGIVEN and cleansed from our sins *1 JOHN 1:9 we are now free to walk in God's Spirit to LOVE *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10.

ROMANS 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

However it is only those who endure (BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD) to the END that will be saved *MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13.

Accoding to God's WORD as posted earlier; all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

Hope this helps to clarify your questions.

God bless.
I like your answers, and agree with them. I might have been a bit hard on you with my last post but now you have shown a good understanding of what the gospel is about.

If a professing believer turns back to sin, it may be a case of backsliding, or that the person adopted the Christian faith without being genuinely converted to Christ. Jesus' parable about the different types of soil bears that out. I think that we have to continually examine ourselves to ensure that we are remaining in the faith and keeping short accounts with God.

Charles Finney is very good at dealing with sin when a person receives Christ. He teaches that it is not good enough to ask God just to forgive us our sins. We must confess all known sin, and make restitution to anyone we have wronged, if possible. Confession of sin is discussing the sin with God and asking for the Holy Spirit to work in us so that we can successful forsake it.

If someone confesses a sinful habit, and then goes back to continuing the habit because he doesn't want to give it up, being something that gives him joy and pleasure, then his confession to God is hypocritical. We may find the sinful habit pattern very difficult to break, but perseverance in prayer, holding on to the Holy Spirit to make the changes will bring the desired result sooner or later.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Thanks Oscarr appreciate your thoughts here, as I did not wish to get a misunderstanding of what you were posting. Some questions and comments below for your consideration.
I will try and respond para by para. The Law is our tutor to lead us to Christ. But once we have Christ, we don't need the tutor any longer. The application of the Law in Christian evangelism is to activate the conscience of lost sinners as to their condition - that they are rebels against God and deserve wrath, punishment and hell. As I said, it is to bring conviction of sin in the conscience of lost sinners so that when presented with the gospel of Christ, it is now good news for them.
The scripture say as we have received Chrsit JESUS the LORD walk in him *COLOSSIANS 2:6; We receive Christ and we walk in Him by FAITH and not by sight according to his WORD *2 CORINTHIANS 5:7; ROMANS 10:17.

Does a NEW BORN babe in Christ using the milk of the WORD know the meat of the WORD of God *1 CORINTHIANS 3:2? Is there a difference between KNOWN SIN and UNKNOWN SIN as we grow in Grace *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17? If so how do we know what SIN is as we grow in Grace?

While I agree with most of what you have posted here my understanding of the scripture here in GALATIANS 3:22-25 is that we are no longer UNDER THE LAW (condemned by the law; ROMANS 3:19-20) because we have been forgiven for our sins once we have repented from them and come to Christ who the LAW was leading us to for God's FORGIVENESS.

This does not therefore do away with God's LAW as the purpose of God's LAW (10 commandments) is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and to LEAD us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN for our SINS by faith meaning that we are no longer under the condemnation of God's LAW *ROMANS 8:1-4. God's law therefore holds the same place that it always has and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken.
This is what is preached to lost sinners to show them their condition before God. Once a person has received Christ, he doesn't need this message any longer because the knowledge of the Law has done its work to alert the sinner to his lost condition, and so having accepted the gospel and received Christ, he doesn't need to have the Law presented to him any longer.

Has God's LAW done all it's work for the rest of the Christian walk only for a new believer at conversion when a new BELIEVER does not know much of God's WORD or does it continue to do it's work as we GROW in grace and the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD leading us to have a closer walk with JESUS *REVELATION 22:11; EPHESIANS 4:13; 2 TIMOTHY 3:13?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother. Much of the rest of your post you have already said before and I mostly agree with.

God bless.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I like your answers, and agree with them. I might have been a bit hard on you with my last post but now you have shown a good understanding of what the gospel is about.

If a professing believer turns back to sin, it may be a case of backsliding, or that the person adopted the Christian faith without being genuinely converted to Christ. Jesus' parable about the different types of soil bears that out. I think that we have to continually examine ourselves to ensure that we are remaining in the faith and keeping short accounts with God.

Charles Finney is very good at dealing with sin when a person receives Christ. He teaches that it is not good enough to ask God just to forgive us our sins. We must confess all known sin, and make restitution to anyone we have wronged, if possible. Confession of sin is discussing the sin with God and asking for the Holy Spirit to work in us so that we can successful forsake it.

If someone confesses a sinful habit, and then goes back to continuing the habit because he doesn't want to give it up, being something that gives him joy and pleasure, then his confession to God is hypocritical. We may find the sinful habit pattern very difficult to break, but perseverance in prayer, holding on to the Holy Spirit to make the changes will bring the desire result sooner or later.

Thanks brother, I enjoy reading your posts. I was only after some clarification.

God bless.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok this is getting fun.

That used to be my cue to toy with them so everyone can see what they're about, until a few times it got so pitiful, I just couldn't do it anymore. Today it's my cue to think about just not replying to them anymore.

That's not a recommendation but just my experience over the years, and it's only in general, not always, it all depends.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
OK, I see how it's going to be. I gave you every chance in spite of your time wasting, contrary actions. Go ahead and sin if that's what you choose to do.
Sorry but I got a better deal. Heb 8:6.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It matters, because we are talking about obeying God.



What does Psalm 14:3 have to do with what we are talking about? Yes, I agree that no one is able to perfectly obey the law, and no one is able to measure up to its righteousness, but that does not negate the obligation we have to obey God regardless. Just because we are sinful creatures doesn't allow us to sin.
You're talking about the law and keeping it as an obligation for salvation. No one can attain salvation by the law. You can't obligated God. The wages you'll get for keeping the law are wages you really don't want.
"Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19-20
When it come to heaven you really value vanity?
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So, to confirm, you believe the struggle in Romans 7 is Paul as a Christian, and not someone before Christ and still under the law (like it says).
Yes. And John indicates Christians will still sin. This is very different from practicing habitual sin.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
OK, I see how it's going to be. I gave you every chance in spite of your time wasting, contrary actions. Go ahead and sin if that's what you choose to do.
Yeah I'm wasting time trying to have a conversation with you. But that's not what I'm really up to. So keep right on.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why do people not understand the text?

Even commentaries are often wrong when it comes to the letter to the Romans.

In this day and age, I am baffled to why people do not understand the text.
I'm not baffled in the least.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The post you are quoting from says...

You did not read it with ROMANS 2. Here let's look at it and discuss it.

Let's have a look where Paul proved that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN" *ROMANS 3:9
Under sin yes. Under the law no. being under sin has nothing to do with being under the law. Sin was before the law See 5:13.
ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN
There are no doers of the law. Even Paul says this - all have sinned. Since our body isn't subject to the law it still sins because it's not obedient to the law. YOu haven't proved all are under the law given to Israel.
PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW.

Paul says in ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. Are you seriously trying to argue that the scripture does not mean what it says? The CONTEXT of ROMANS 3:20 is ROMANS 3:9-20 which is stating that all [JEWS and GENTILES] are under sin v9. There is none righteous v10. While v11-18 are emphasizing the same points as v9-10 that we are all sinners. v19-20 then build on wha was written in from verse 9 [verse 9 was in reference to ROMANS 2:3-23]. Now the overall CONTEXT here is that the law being referred to here is the 10 Commandments.
If this is so why is it you promote keeping the law? You say those who don't won't be able to enter heaven (aren't saved). That is salvation by works of the law. That would be paid for with wages. You can have mine, I don't want them. The free gift is much better than wages.
Let's continue ROMANS 2..

ALL are under sin (broken God's LAW ) 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..
Only if you stop there. In chapter 4 Abraham and King David are called righteous in spite of their sin.
ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],
[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?
[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?
[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?
[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!
I'm an uncircumcised male. So this doesn't apply to me as a gentile Christian.
[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
So you have some proof these non Jews kept the 4th commandment? Let's see it. Paul very clearly said they (we) don't have the law.
So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is.
You seem to think the whole world is under the law given to Israel. Paul said no.
PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.
So you think Rom 7:7 shows proof we're obligated to the law when Paul says in the previous verse we're now delivered from the law. Why?

The list of sins isn't quoting/referencing the law. Have you ever noticed sabbath keeping is never mentioned in any of these lists anywhere they appear in Scripture?
ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-29 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW"?

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (sin). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us. That we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

Can you see the CONTEXT you have left out and what ROMANS 3:19 means to be UNDER THE LAW? It means to stand guilty before GOD of breaking it *SIN.

Hope this helps brother.
You point out all are under sin. Good. You pointed out not all are under the law. Excellent. The law only applies to those it was given. You've point out those under the law have poison under their lips and more -

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Isn't past time to face the music?
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello brother Oscarr.

Your responding to the wrong post. Is there a reason you did not respond to a direct post to you earlier in post # 101 linked? It is ok if you did not want to respond. I just was not sure what you were saying in some sections of an earlier post and was seeking some clarification.

God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. No one has said that we can keep God's LAW in our own strength as we are all sinners in need of as Savior. However, the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST is that we have a Savior from the bondage of our sins if we are BORN AGAIN from the INSIDE OUT to LOVE and we continue by FAITH in God's WORD to abide in Christ to walk by faith in God's SPIRIT *JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; GALATIANS 5:16; MATTHEW 15:1-7.

According to God's WORD, all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in those who have been BORN AGAIN to love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8.

We are all sick with sin and need a Physician but many do not know the meaning *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

The GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL brother is that we have a Savior that saves is from SIN. Salvation is from sin not to continue to sin. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will die *MATTHEW 7:22-23.

God bless.
Keeping the law isn't required for salvation. Requiring it for salvation is rejection of Jesus and the righteousness God requires. Nothing any one can do will attain that righteousness. It's only available as a free gift. Anything you work/preform for isn't free.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Liberty spoken of here is freedom from the BONDAGE of SIN (Breaking God's LAW) by walking in God's Spirit. Do you know how we walk in God's Spirit and how many laws are in God's 10 commandments?
What liberty were the false brethren coming to spy out in Galatians?
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I saw your previous post, but it was difficult to respond to because of the complexity of it.

However,

1. How do you define unrepentant sin in a Christian believer?
2. How to you actually define repentance?
3. Are those who are sinlessly perfect the only ones saved?
4. How do you explain the Law being set aside because it failed to make anyone righteous?
5. How does the righteousness of Christ affect the believer?
6. If Christ kept the Law perfectly so He could be our perfect and sinless Substitute for us, and took God complete wrath and punishment on Himself for our sinfulness, then how could we now be punished for sin?
By rejecting that perfect Substitute.

Excellent questions.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums