What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[ace of hearts]

Here is the rest of the post you left out. Did you want to respond to it or ignore it again?

We are not in the OLD COVENANT now we are in the NEW COVENAN think T. The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Sorry brother only sent in love. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. In fact the scriptures go on to say that all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do no practice sin (breaking God's Commandments)

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

JOHN 8:34 [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN.

Jesus wants to make you free from sin [BREAKING GODS LAW]...

JOHN 8:36 [36], IF THE SON OF MAN SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

1 JOHN 3:6 [6], Whosoaver abides in him SINS NOT; WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NEITHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.

1 JOHN 2:4 [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEP NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:7 [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTOEUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN HAS HE IS RIGHTOUES.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTRS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.

1 JOHN 3:8-10 [8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL:whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

…………..

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him.

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Only sent in love brother. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.

Your misrepresentation of the Scripture you quote above helps no one.

 

[ace of hearts]

Ok this is getting fun. So now your changing your mind by saying it is not ok to sin. So in essence now your also saying God's 10 commandments are not abolished because through God's LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you now agree that God's 10 commandments are not abolished *MATTHEW 5:17 then what argument have you now got?

I've never said it's OK to sin. There's no changing of my mind. I understand your only trying to trip me up with either your misunderstanding or twisting what I said.

I quote you the Scripture that uses your word abolished about the law and you just ignore it. No being under grace isn't a license to sin. But your law keeping is worthless because upon violation you run to grace away from the law. Effectively you void the law by seeking forgiveness.

 

[ace of hearts]

It is ok brother. You can take your time with it. I did agree with most of your earlier post in post # 101 linked, but was not sure on some sections so was asking if you can clarify some sections in your earlier post in case I was getting some misunderstandings on what you were saying before I would reply further. As to your questions for me, I will provide some comments below.

Someone that has been BORN AGAIN repented of their sins and given themselves to JESUS but then after some time turn away from God's WORD to live a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. Or someone that is GROWING in GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of Gods WORD, who learns more of the WORD of GOD then finds out that something he did not KNOW earlier was sin is sin but does not want to give their SIN up in order to have a closer walk with JESUS. *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

What is this unrepentant sin you talk about?

 

[ace of hearts]

Thanks Oscarr appreciate your thoughts here, as I did not wish to get a misunderstanding of what you were posting. Some questions and comments below for your consideration.

The scripture say as we have received Chrsit JESUS the LORD walk in him *COLOSSIANS 2:6; We receive Christ and we walk in Him by FAITH and not by sight according to his WORD *2 CORINTHIANS 5:7; ROMANS 10:17.

Does a NEW BORN babe in Christ using the milk of the WORD know the meat of the WORD of God *1 CORINTHIANS 3:2? Is there a difference between KNOWN SIN and UNKNOWN SIN as we grow in Grace *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17? If so how do we know what SIN is as we grow in Grace?

While I agree with most of what you have posted here my understanding of the scripture here in GALATIANS 3:22-25 is that we are no longer UNDER THE LAW (condemned by the law; ROMANS 3:19-20) because we have been forgiven for our sins once we have repented from them and come to Christ who the LAW was leading us to for God's FORGIVENESS.

This does not therefore do away with God's LAW as the purpose of God's LAW (10 commandments) is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and to LEAD us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN for our SINS by faith meaning that we are no longer under the condemnation of God's LAW *ROMANS 8:1-4. God's law therefore holds the same place that it always has and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken.


Has God's LAW done all it's work for the rest of the Christian walk only for a new believer at conversion when a new BELIEVER does not know much of God's WORD or does it continue to do it's work as we GROW in grace and the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD leading us to have a closer walk with JESUS *REVELATION 22:11; EPHESIANS 4:13; 2 TIMOTHY 3:13?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother. Much of the rest of your post you have already said before and I mostly agree with.

God bless.

Reel him in.

 

[Dkh587]

I understand, but then we have to get into, is Jesus God, making them his commandments or does Jesus simply think just as God making them also his. So I just call them his because everyone else does.

However, I agree with you post 100%.

Personally, I think his commandments include the Torah, because he taught the Torah(and the Prophets).

To paraphrase the Messiah, what he essentially is saying is this:

Do what I tell you to do, as I have done what my Father told me to do

 

[ace of hearts]

Personally, I think his commandments include the Torah, because he taught the Torah(and the Prophets).

To paraphrase the Messiah, what he essentially is saying is this:

Do what I tell you to do, as I have done what my Father told me to do

Interesting post. I'd bet we mean different things with those same words.

 

[Tone]

Personally, I think his commandments include the Torah, because he taught the Torah(and the Prophets).

To paraphrase the Messiah, what he essentially is saying is this:

Do what I tell you to do, as I have done what my Father told me to do

Of course He taught it, that's why He said "But you shall not be called “Rabbi”, for One is your Rabbi, but you are all brothers." (Matthew 23:8). This is what Rabbis do...they teach the Law...go figure.

Who better to teach it than the One Who gave it.

 

[Tone]

"The mount was covered by the cloud for six days, and on the seventh day Moses went into the midst of the cloud and was "in the mount forty days and forty nights."[46] And Moses said, "the LORDdelivered unto me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly."[47] Before the full forty days expired, the children of Israel collectively decided that something had happened to Moses, and compelled Aaron to fashion a golden calf, and he "built an altar before it"[48]and the people "worshipped" the calf.[49]

After the full forty days, Moses and Joshua came down from the mountain with the tablets of stone: "And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."[50]After the events in chapters 32 and 33, the LORD told Moses, "Hew thee two tablets of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tablets the words that were in the first tablets, which thou brakest."[51] "And he wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me."[52]

According to Jewish tradition, Exodus 20:1–17 constitutes God's first recitation and inscription of the ten commandments on the two tablets,[53]which Moses broke in anger with his rebellious nation, and were later rewritten on replacement stones and placed in the ark of the covenant;[54] and Deuteronomy 5:4–25 consists of God's re-telling of the Ten Commandments to the younger generation who were to enter the Promised Land."
Ten Commandments - Wikipedia

So, Who's your LORD?

Also, speaking of the underlined words in the last portion of the passage, do you all think that the breaking of the original stones and the "replacement stones" account, prefigures the need for Messiah to fulfill the Law? is it our hearts that are the replacement stones?

 

[klutedavid]

It may help to understand where people stand regarding the term "law." As I am reading this thread, I am noticing some seem to be hinting that we should obey the Mosaic law, including the dietary regulations intended only for Israel in the Old Testament era. This is heavily addressed by the apostle Paul, especially in Galatians, and the inspired writer of the book of Hebrews. There was never a time that a Gentile was obligated to obey that law, and never will there ever be a time. The Mosaic law regulated the enjoyment of Israel's blessedness as a nation and controlled tenure in the land of Canaan. It pointed toward a better covenant that it typified and promised.

When referring to the "law," I am talking about the sum of moral equity comprehended by the Decalogue, imported in the Mosaic law (but transcendent to it). When the Mosaic law is removed, the moral law remains in place as the perfect standard of God's righteousness. It is by this law we are judged as sinners, and that we are to render our obedience to. It is summed under the two great commandments, which is the very composition of what the law requires.

Well written and I agree to some extent.

I would require a more precise explanation of what you mean by 'moral law'.

What law are we judged by?

Are Christians judged?

 

[klutedavid]

The post you are quoting from says...

You did not read it with ROMANS 2. Here let's look at it and discuss it.

Let's have a look where Paul proved that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN" *ROMANS 3:9

ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN

PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW.

Paul says in ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. Are you seriously trying to argue that the scripture does not mean what it says? The CONTEXT of ROMANS 3:20 is ROMANS 3:9-20 which is stating that all [JEWS and GENTILES] are under sin v9. There is none righteous v10. While v11-18 are emphasizing the same points as v9-10 that we are all sinners. v19-20 then build on wha was written in from verse 9 [verse 9 was in reference to ROMANS 2:3-23]. Now the overall CONTEXT here is that the law being referred to here is the 10 Commandments.

Let's continue ROMANS 2..

ALL are under sin (broken God's LAW ) 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..

ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],
[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?
[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?
[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?
[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!

[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is.

PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-29 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW"?

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (sin). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us. That we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

Can you see the CONTEXT you have left out and what ROMANS 3:19 means to be UNDER THE LAW? It means to stand guilty before GOD of breaking it *SIN.

Hope this helps brother.

Your quoting from the text (Romans 2), extracting verses from the text (Romans 2) but missing the context of chapter two.

You do not realize LGW when you read a verse in a given chapter, that the verse may not mean what you think it means.

If the text (Romans 2 and Romans 3) is in fact about Paul talking to the Jews in Rome, then the meaning of those quoted verses will change.

You must understand this point LGW and I am concerned that you are missing this.

I understand your interpretation completely and I know what you are saying. The problem is your interpretation ignores who Paul is talking to in Romans 2, this directly impacts your interpretation.

Romans 2:24
For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Why you do not read and understand this verse is beyond me.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It's the same place he confesses he didn't.

You can't show me the scripture???

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes. And John indicates Christians will still sin. This is very different from practicing habitual sin.

Then why did you agree to post #179. This post says you don't agree.

As far as 1 John 2:1, if that is the text you are alluding to (who knows???), there is no mention of repentance, so what type of sin do we commit that we don't know about in order to repent? Not all sin is "willful sin = lawlessness."

Is John confusing us with contradictions? 1 John 3:9. What type of sin does a Christian never commit because of being filled with the Holy Spirit? Do the teachings of "sin is sin" hold water or hot air.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Under sin yes. Under the law no. being under sin has nothing to do with being under the law. Sin was before the law See 5:13.There are no doers of the law. Even Paul says this - all have sinned. Since our body isn't subject to the law it still sins because it's not obedient to the law. YOu haven't proved all are under the law given to Israel.If this is so why is it you promote keeping the law? You say those who don't won't be able to enter heaven (aren't saved). That is salvation by works of the law. That would be paid for with wages. You can have mine, I don't want them. The free gift is much better than wages.Only if you stop there. In chapter 4 Abraham and King David are called righteous in spite of their sin.I'm an uncircumcised male. So this doesn't apply to me as a gentile Christian.So you have some proof these non Jews kept the 4th commandment? Let's see it. Paul very clearly said they (we) don't have the law.You seem to think the whole world is under the law given to Israel. Paul said no.So you think Rom 7:7 shows proof we're obligated to the law when Paul says in the previous verse we're now delivered from the law. Why?

The list of sins isn't quoting/referencing the law. Have you ever noticed sabbath keeping is never mentioned in any of these lists anywhere they appear in Scripture?You point out all are under sin. Good. You pointed out not all are under the law. Excellent. The law only applies to those it was given. You've point out those under the law have poison under their lips and more -

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Here you go have another go and try addressing the post and the scriptures in them. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE UNDER THE LAW?

Let's have a look where Paul proved that both JEWS and GENTILES are all "UNDER SIN" *ROMANS 3:9

ROMANS 2:6-29
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

ROMANS 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN

PAUL proved this earlier in ROMANS 2:6-13. Where he shows that both JEWS AND GENTILES ARE ALL UNDER SIN and stand guilty before God of breaking his LAW.

Paul says in ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. Are you seriously trying to argue that the scripture does not mean what it says? The CONTEXT of ROMANS 3:20 is ROMANS 3:9-20 which is stating that all [JEWS and GENTILES] are under sin v9. There is none righteous v10. While v11-18 are emphasizing the same points as v9-10 that we are all sinners. v19-20 then build on wha was written in from verse 9 [verse 9 was in reference to ROMANS 2:3-23]. Now the overall CONTEXT here is that the law being referred to here is the 10 Commandments.

Let's continue ROMANS 2..

ALL are under sin (broken God's LAW ) 3v9. None are righteous no not one 3v10. Context..

ROMANS 2:21-29 [21],
[21], You therefore which teach another, teach you not yourself? you that preach a man should not steal, do you steal?
[22], You that say a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? you that abhor idols, do you commit sacrilege?
[23], You that make your boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonor you God?
[24], For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25], For circumcision truly profits, if you keep the law: but if you be a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

NOTE: How is your circumcision made uncircumcision? By breaking the 10 commandments!

[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So it is very clear that when PAUL writes ROMANS 3:19-20...

ROMANS 3:19-20 [19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Is in reference to the 10 commandments giving us a knowledge of what sin is.

PAUL emphasizes this further in ROMANS 7..

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

NOTE: Paul says he did not know what sin was but by the law. This is what he said earlier in ROMANS 3:20 when he said that it is by God's LAW that we have a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. The law defined here is specified as the 10 Commandments as highlighted in Romans 2:4-29 and Romans 3:9-20 which specifies as examples in ROMANS 2:21-23 giving examples of stealing, adultery and Idol worship quoting the 10 commandments from Exodus 20:4-5; 14-14. Romans 7:7 is continuing this same thought by quoting the tenth commandment of you shall not covet as an example of sin if broken from Exodus 20:17.

So the law referenced here that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin, is indeed referring to the 10 Commandments (not nine as you teach) and not the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) for remission of sin.

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Let's start with v9 which is the CONTEXT. This shows your interpretation of the scriptures is not a correct one brother. It cannot be applicable to just the JEWS because the CONTEXT of v19 in v9 is that BOTH JEW AND GREEK ARE ALL UNDER SIN. Paul says he proved this earlier. WHERE did he prove that BOTH JEWS and GREEKS are ALL UNDER SIN?

Now that CONTEXT has been established in ROMANS 2:6-29 and ROMANS 3:9-20. Let's look at the scriptures and see what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19.

ROMANS 3:19 [19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

Who does PAUL say is "UNDER THE LAW" both JEW AND GENTILE because BOTH JEW AND GENTILE are stand guilty before GOD of breaking it (Romans 2:6-13). Both JEW and GENTILES are all under SIN there is none good no not one (Romans 3:9; Romans 3:10)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "UNDER THE LAW"?

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this case means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW (sin). FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN (Romans 3:20) and this is what God's LAW teaches us. That we are all sinners in need of a Saviour

Can you see the CONTEXT you have left out and what ROMANS 3:19 means to be UNDER THE LAW? It means to stand guilty before GOD of breaking it *SIN.

Hope this helps brother.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Keeping the law isn't required for salvation. Requiring it for salvation is rejection of Jesus and the righteousness God requires. Nothing any one can do will attain that righteousness. It's only available as a free gift. Anything you work/preform for isn't free.

Your not responding to anything you are quoting from. How about you read the post you are responding to instead of making things up?

Who said keeping God's LAW (10 commandments) is a requirement for salvation? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation why pretend that they have? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation then why make up things no one is arguing about?

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Who then do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God or men *ROMANS 3:4. Yep I know who I believe. You provide your own words. My words are not my own but God's WORD. It is the Word of God that will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Now brother you admit in your own words that it is not ok for Christians to sin. This is correct. If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is then what are you talking about?

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What liberty were the false brethren coming to spy out in Galatians?

Read the post you are quoting from and what was being responded to. It does not say what your talking about so why pretend otherwise?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

By rejecting that perfect Substitute. Excellent questions.

You do not read the posts anyones posts do you.

I like your answers, and agree with them. I might have been a bit hard on you with my last post but now you have shown a good understanding of what the gospel is about.

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ROMANS 3:4

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm not interested in being helped out of grace and taking on the burden of the law. My reason is Gal 5.

Do you know what Grace is and what Grace is for? What is Grace in your view?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your misrepresentation of the Scripture you quote above helps no one.

What is misrepresented in the scriptures? Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. Here have another go...

We are not in the OLD COVENANT now we are in the NEW COVENANT. The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Sorry brother only sent in love. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. In fact the scriptures go on to say that all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do no practice sin (breaking God's Commandments)

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

JOHN 8:34 [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN.

Jesus wants to make you free from sin [BREAKING GODS LAW]...

JOHN 8:36 [36], IF THE SON OF MAN SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

1 JOHN 3:6 [6], Whosoaver abides in him SINS NOT; WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NEITHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.

1 JOHN 2:4 [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEP NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:7 [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTOEUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN HAS HE IS RIGHTOUES.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTRS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.

1 JOHN 3:8-10 [8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL:whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

…………..

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him.

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Only sent in love brother. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've never said it's OK to sin. There's no changing of my mind. I understand your only trying to trip me up with either your misunderstanding or twisting what I said.

I quote you the Scripture that uses your word abolished about the law and you just ignore it. No being under grace isn't a license to sin. But your law keeping is worthless because upon violation you run to grace away from the law. Effectively you void the law by seeking forgiveness.

Nope, you have provided no scripture showing God's LAW is abolished. There is no need to try and trip yourself up brother you did this yourself as soon as you posted that it is not ok for Christians to SIN because it is God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. By admitting this you have no longer have an argument. Happy to repost your confession here..

ace of hearts said: ↑ It's OK if you don't understand. Do I need to post in large letters or something? No we don't have permission to sin being under grace. John says if we do we have and advocate with the Father - 1 JN 1:9. In my way of saying things you took that as easy cheesy cheap grace. That would be very wrong. John assures us there is a way to correct things. Paul sinned and you claim he was still a Christian while writing a major portion of the NT.

Now what argument have you now got? Here brother let me help you up. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4

Hope this helps

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sorry but I got a better deal. Heb 8:6.

You mean Hebrews 8:6? (That is so we can link to it and see what it actually says).