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What commandments is Jesus talking about?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by ace of hearts, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You mean Galatians 5? (Just so we can link to it :) )
     
  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dead right! That means all of it, including everything that Paul taught about Law and grace.
     
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  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Indeed brother, and your point to me is?
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think that what we often miss is that the whole and exclusive mission of the Holy Spirit in the world is to get as many lost sinners saved as possible. When we fully know that, we realise that much of our spiritual lives and Christian activities have been entirely selfish - serving our own interests instead of the interests of lost souls.

    All we have to do is see many posts of CF where Christians have been more concerned about themselves and their state with God, than for the lost souls around them. There seems to be many questions about relatively unimportant doctrines, but not many questions about how we can more effectively reach the lost and get them converted.

    If we are merely following our own religious self interests and that of the "Christian club" that we happen to attend instead of equipping ourselves in prayer and ability to reach lost souls for Christ, then we are coming well short of true obedience to Christ. His project is to seek and save that which is lost. That is the foundation and purpose of His government. This is the great thread that runs through the whole Bible. It was why the Bible was written in the first place.

    If we go contrary to the government of our country, we risk being prosecuted, fined or imprisoned for not obey the law of the land. So how much more will we have to pay a penalty if we go against God's government?

    Being involved in religious projects that have no relation to getting lost souls converted and saved, is going against the project that God has for this lost world. The Scripture says that the work of God is that we believe on Him whom He has sent. This means that our main project in life is for the good of others, namely to get lost souls to believing in Christ, converted and saved.

    I think we all have to take responsibility for the time we have wasted in pursuing selfish projects. I'm not talking about normal living and earning an income which we all have to attend to. But, instead of spending all our time in prayer for ourselves and our families, we need to think about those who are going to hell all around us. This is what I am being challenged with at present. Do I have a passion and a concern for the lost? Do I spend more time praying for those acquaintances and friends who are on the road to hell? Would my prayers for them make the difference between heaven and hell for them?

    The point is, are we REALLY obeying the commands of Jesus, or are we just playing church?

    For a start, would it make a significant difference if we got our diaries out and wrote a list of the names of every person we know who is unsaved, and prayed for them every day? I wonder then, what opportunities would arise to present the gospel to them, and would they be more open to receive it because of our prayers (without ceasing) for them?

    Something to ponder.
     
  5. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    You can only get the real estate that God gave to the nation of Israel. Sorry about that.
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What would be his motive for gaining the land? For the good of others, or for his own happiness and security?
     
  7. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    We do care about you and want you to stop coveting your neighbors oxen. If only you could stop staring at your neighbor's oxen then you will be righteous just like us.

    We don't care if you afflict widows and orphans as long as you obey the ten commandments.
     
  8. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Ask Jeremiah if he was happy, content and secure. You can get the land in that old covenant but holding onto the land is another matter.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your post brother. May I ask some more questions for clarification before answering this post?

    1, What makes a Christian a Christian?

    2, God's people are in EVERY Church living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. JESUS says many sheep I have from other folds and he must bring them and that the hour is coming and now is that all those who wish to worship God must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23. JESUS also says that all those why follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Where is God calling His people back to?

    3, Who are the lost and why are they lost?

    4, Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT?

    5, Who are the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL and does God want us to save them through his Word *MATTHEW 10:6?

    6, What part of God's WORD is not important and what is it that we need to be converted to *MATTHEW 13:13-16?

    7, If we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that lead others to break the commandments of God are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God?

    Thanks for the clarification. You do not have to answer these questions brother if you do not wish to. If you can however you already have a response to your post.

    God bless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  10. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The point I was making is that if we do things for the whole purpose of being happy and secure, then we are doing them with a selfish motive, and they have no value to God at all. God's attitude is for a highest good of others. That is His nature. If we want to be Christ-like, then we need to have the same attitude - that is, everything we do be for the good of others.

    For the genuinely converted Christian, that is the only path to true happiness - doing good to others, not for personal gain, but for its own sake. Doing things for personal gain does not bring lasting happiness.

    Jeremiah's unhappiness was because of the ungodly state of the nation. I suspect that he would be pretty happy where he is right now though! :)
     
  11. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiahs unhappiness was caused by God telling Jeremiah to say, what Jeremiah did not want to tell people. Jeremiah was also in exile and no one in Israel living in Babylon was happy.

    The law has a purpose and was given to the exiles from Egypt. One of the greatest promises of the commands and statutes was about the land.

    Deuteronomy 8:1
    All the commandments that I am commanding you today you shall be careful to do, that you may live and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord swore to give to your forefathers.

    This is the promise.

    What happened when Israel disobeyed?

    They were scattered across the earth!
     
  12. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    I can't help myself, let me answer the first question.
    A simple definition of a Christian is a person that trusts in the promised messiah, i.e., Jesus of Nazareth. That is anyone who calls on the name of Jesus!

    A slightly more detailed definition of a Christian is outlined by Paul in Romans.

    Romans 10:9-10
    That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

    That is the primary definition of a Christian and the reason a Christian is saved.

    A Christian is someone who is saved purely by the grace of God. Salvation is always a free gift given to anyone who believes in Jesus.

    Yet there is fine print in the contract that expands on the primary definition, but the fine print does not alter the basis of salvation itself. The foundation is the death and resurrection of the Jesus the messiah.

    The fine print; A Christian must live a life of loving others. A Christian must bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. A Christian must walk the walk throughout their life.

    The light shone in the darkness and if someone claims Jesus, then that person will walk in that light.
     
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  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I love posts like yours because I enjoy answering well set out questions instead of trying to make sense of a whole mish-mash of ideas.

    A genuine Christian convert is one who knows how sinful he (both genders included) is and how totally deserving of hell. Then he abandons all confidence and hope that he can make himself acceptable to God and falls totally on the grace and mercy of God through faith in Christ as his total Saviour. Jesus can only be a Saviour if the sinner knows what horrible future he has been saved from. Then he lives his life for the glory of Christ and the common good of all.

    Jesus spoke those words to the Samaritan woman in around 30-odd AD. This was fulfilled after His death, resurrection, ascension, and the Day of Pentecost. As Christian believers, we are now worshiping God in Spirit and in truth. A person can belong to a church and still worship God in Spirit and in truth regardless of the traditions that church may have. But a person who puts his church tradition as a prominent part of the foundation of his religious observance may not be worshiping Christ in Spirit and in truth. He may be worshiping his church instead.

    Jesus was alluding to the Gentiles who were to come to Christ, as the sheep from other folds. Remember that He was talking to a Samaritan woman who did not include Gentiles in the family of faith as she saw them. The Jews believed that in order to be right with God Gentiles had to adopt Judaism. But after Pentecost, it was demonstrated that the Holy Spirit fell on Gentile believers the same as Jewish ones. That was Peter's account to the Apostles in Jerusalem. Also, Paul testified the same to the Apostles when he went to confer with them over the conflict in the Gentile churches with Jewish believers trying to teach a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.

    The difference between a believer worshiping a church or worshiping Christ is that if something goes wrong with their church, the church worshipers tend to lose their faith and many times leave the church and Christ as well. The Christ worshipers maintain their faith in Christ regardless of what happens in their church.

    I guess a lot of Catholics might lose confidence in the Church and depart from the faith because of the conviction of Cardinal Pell. But the Christ worshipers in the Catholic church will maintain their faith in Christ and see that the fault is in the man and not the Church.

    Because Adam disobeyed God, sin came into the world and the spirits of his descendants died, and their hearts were changed to choose sinful practices instead of godly ones. This is because when the spirit of the person died, their fellowship with God died with it. Therefore, every single human being after Adam was subject to condemnation, the wrath of God against sin, and totally deserving of hell.

    But, as we see in the Biblical account, there was a thread of people who looked to God in faith, and received grace. Abraham believed God and he was declared righteous. All those who had faith in God were looking forward to the Redeemer who was going to appear in the future.

    Therefore, a lost person is one who chooses sin rather than having faith in Christ. It is natural for a person to choose sin, therefore it needs for the Holy Spirit to intervene and show them their total sinfulness and that they are on the road to hell. When they are convicted of their sin and choose to start praying and crying out to God, the Holy Spirit shows them the gospel and opens their hearts to it and leads them to Christ. Once they exercise faith in Christ, they are no longer lost.

    Simple. Every person who is genuinely converted to Christ, both Jew and Gentile. Believing Jew and Gentile are merged to make up the one spiritual Israel.

    They are the Jews who do not yet believe in Christ as their Saviour and Lord.

    All of God's Word has importance. But we need to determine which parts of it are written FOR us and which are written TO us. Those parts that are written FOR us are there for our learning and education to see how God works with people and how people are blessed when they have faith in God and how they get into problems when they walk away from God.

    But many of the promises of God to His people may be FOR us, but we can take them as if they are TO us because they are effective for anyone who has faith in God.

    Much of the life and teaching of Christ is written FOR us and not necessarily directly TO us, although we can take the teaching on board as the standards of holiness that God expects of His children.

    Most of what Paul has written is TO us, because they provide direct instructions to the churches that he visited and wrote to. Anything that Paul has written to the churches must apply to us because we are members of the same body of Christ as they were. We see the standards of holiness in the teaching of Jesus, and we then see how we apply those standards to our lives through the teaching of Paul.

    Jesus said in Mark 7:13 that the traditions the Jews followed made the Word of God of no effect to them. He implied that those who put the traditions of men first cannot be saved. I agree. We cannot have Christ as Lord and have the traditions of men as our foundation at the same time.

    There is nothing wrong with tradition, but it must be kept to its right place. If it is used to strengthen our faith in Christ then it does no harm; but if if takes the place of faith in Christ where a person is taught that he cannot have faith in Christ unless he adheres strictly to the traditions, then the teaching is false and harmful.

    I believe that if someone is knowingly teaching and encouraging others to follow the traditions of men as a requirement for Christian faith, then they are working against the gospel instead of for it. They are, in fact, pointing others along the road to hell, and I would not be surprised if those teachers ended up in hell themselves, unless the Holy Spirit intervened and showed them the foolishness and unrighteousness of their actions.

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to answer your questions. I enjoyed posting them. I trust that they are useful to you. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  14. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The point I was making in terms of following the commands of Jesus was that are we following the commands of Jesus for our own self interest or happiness or are we following them to glorify Christ and for the good of the saved and unsaved people around us?

    If we are following the commands of Jesus just for our own self interest in terms of appeasing our conscience and feeling better, without considering the glory of Christ and the good of others, then we are not following the commandments of Christ at all!
     
  15. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't buy that especially from you. NTL why don't you think I'm interested in helping you. Your primary interest seems to be evangelizing Christians against the rules. You're not conversational at all. You do preach a lot. You complain about people not engaging your posts while we're on what page 15. You've yet to identify any commandments given by Jesus or show proof Jesus issued the famous 10. I understand the OP to be the first post of a thread. You don't hear me griping about it on every page. When I addressed you about being off topic you simply quit responding on that thread. Yep, you're a swell dude.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  16. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You're losing sight of the ball and are kicking the player instead! :)
     
  17. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    You want me to start keeping tabs of re-posts? I read your post the first time. I didn't say what you wanted to hear, so you just re-post. Not to cool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  18. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Oscarr. I'll PM you on this.
     
  19. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    True
    True
    No sir I don't. Take Col 2:16-17 for example about who is mixing what refusing to believe the text.
    I've asked you several times about this statement. So far your only response is I don't know what the old covenant is even when I quote from the Book of the Law. You repeat it often.
    You disagree with Rom 3:20 by accusing people of sin for not keeping the law. That means one is justified (not sinning) by keeping the law.

    You try to use Rom 7:7 to prove the Christians is obligated to the law against verse 6 which clearly says -

    But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Your team most usually only refers to the last haflf of the sentence in 1 Jn 3:4

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Stressing the last 8 words of the verse and ignoring the first 7 is promoting a falsehood. It disagrees with a few other passages of Scripture you choose to ignore.

    I've no idea why you're trying to connect PS 119:172 to your words.
    Considering your position and the Scripture Heb 10:26-27 is only detrimental to your cause and argument. You habitually do the same thing every week after reading posts here at CF.

    What are wages? Aren't they something earned obligating another to compensate an individual. How deep would you like me to discuss this? I guarantee you wouldn't be fond of it. Personally you can have my wages and I'll be extremely happy with the free gift offered in Rom 6:23.

    Would obedience to God be complying to 1 JN 3:23?

    And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

    Jam 2:18-20 isn't about works of the law. Read the chapter. Yes James provides a list of sins violating the law. But what works does James talk about? He certainly does say keep the sabbath which would be a positive command. Instead he talks about giving respect to some and disrespect to another. He talks about food and clothes as works but not the law.

    Your only trying to enforce works of the law with your Matthew references thru condemnation.
    Covered above.
    True
    Jesus doesn't make anyone free by keeping the law. There are many references to the bondage of the law even some in the OT that quote Jews crying about the curse taken on them for agreeing to the law. That particular incident has nothing to do with sin except the acknowledgement they can't live up to their agreement.
    True. The opposite is bondage to sin by the law.
    Given your position about sin and law I just can't believe you have the guts to post this one. You abide (live in and ruled by) the law. You do not live (abide) in Jesus evidenced by your posts.
    This is a twisted passage to show obligation to the law. When you were asked about it in a fuller quote by you, you totally ignored Jesus Christ the righteous in verse 1 and the other verses in your quote specifically identifying Jesus.
    I don't think you really want me to address this in light of your posts.
    True
    I've no idea why you divorced this from 1 Jn 3:7 you quoted above. You really don't want me to address this in detail. Besides I don't need trouble from you after you report me from the mods.
    No this is how we know Jesus Christ the righteous in verse 1.
    Sorry but I need to stay out of trouble and can't discuss this with you in public.
    Nothing but a twisting of a verse. You have the testimony of the law - not Jesus. Besides that you must ignore 1 Jn 3:23 to even intend us to understand this is a requirement for salvation.
    Ditto my above comment.
    Gloat now cause you won't later. My above comments also apply here.
    Who the word Him applies to here could be debated. That debate wouldn't come out in your favor.
    There's only one sin that will never be forgiven. There is no sin in not keeping the covenant given to Israel alone in the desert after departure from Egypt.

    I've been kind here with my comments and responded to every single passage as a token courtesy to Oscarr. I could post more truth but choose a wiser path instead.
     
  20. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ the Righteous
     
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