Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[DavidPT]

The gospel binds Satan.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

What does the gospel do in this case then? When he is loosed he is not still bound, now is he? You said the gospel binds satan. Now tell us what it does to him when he is not bound.

 

[Riberra]

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
(The moon does not give its normal bright light during a blood moon.)

You have just introduced an interpretation of yours communly referred as a STRAW MAN [even if the scientific explanation describe accurately what happen during a blood moon ]...

The text of Matthew 24 is not saying -the moon will ''not give its normal light'' ...The text say say that the moon will not give its light.

The Moon will not give her light because God will turn the light of the Sun off during the Day of His Coming.

No light coming from the Sun mean no reflection of the light of the Sun on the Moon surface.The result is that the Moon will not be visible at all.

Keras is very accurate by citing
Amos 5:18-20
18Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

The 6 TH Seal blood moon correspond to Joel 2:31-32
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah hath said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah doth call.



....which is cited to happen sometimes ie[many years from Revelation 6 through Revelation 19] ]before the Day of the Lord which will be The Day of The Coming of Jesus cited to occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION Of THOSE DAYS in Matthew 24:29-31.

Joel 2:1-2 the day of the Coming of Jesus .
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of Jehovah COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; 2 a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Joel 2:10
10 The earth quaketh before them; the heavens tremble; the sun and the moon are darkened, And The Stars WITDRAW their shining.

As you know it the Sun is also A STAR....a G-Type Stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_classification

 

[BABerean2]

You have just introduced an interpretation of yours [even if the scientific explanation describe what happen during a blood moon ]...

The text of Matthew 24 is not saying -the moon will ''not give its normal light'' ...The text say say that the moon will not give its light.

The Moon will not give her light because God will turn the light of the Sun off during the Day of His Coming.

No light coming from the Sun mean no reflection of the light of the Sun on the Moon .The result is that the Moon will not be visible at all.

Keras is very accurate by citing
Amos 5:18-20
18Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

The 6 TH Seal blood moon correspond to Joel 2 ....which is cited to happen sometimes ie[many years from Revelation 6 through Revelation 19] ]before the Day of the Lord which will be The Day of The Coming of Jesus cited to occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION Of THOSE DAYS in Matthew 24:29-31.

Do you find common elements in the four passages below?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.

 

[Riberra]

Do you find common elements in the four passages below?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Dare to comment about these Biblical verses ?

The 6 TH Seal blood moon correspond to Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.


....which is cited [in the Book of Revelation to happen -many years- [Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 18] before the Day of the Lord which will be The Day of The Coming of Jesus [Revelation 19] ,cited to occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION Of THOSE DAYS in Matthew 24:29-31.

Joel 2:1-2 [the day of the Coming of Jesus] .
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain; let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of Jehovah COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; 2 a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Joel 2:10
10 The earth quaketh before them; the heavens tremble; the sun and the moon are darkened, And The Stars WITHDRAW their shining.

As you know it the Sun is also A STAR....a G-Type Stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_classification

 

[keras]

The Book of Joel:

Blow the shofar in Zion: sound the alarm in the holy Land. Let all the inhabitants of the Land tremble, for the Day of the Lord is coming. A Day of darkness and dense cloud is at hand.

The Day of the Lord is near, it’s coming is already known to those with eyes to see. It will be a mighty destruction instigated by the Almighty1. Great will be that Day and who will be able to endure it?

But now the Lord says: If you turn back to Me wholeheartedly with fasting, repentance and mourning for your sins, it may be I will relent and leave a blessing behind, enough for My people to make a grain or drink offering. Spare Your people, Lord4, do not expose us to shame. Why should we cry: “Where is our God?”

When that time comes, I the Lord will bring the nations to judgement2 for their crimes against My people, now scattered around the world. What are you, Lebanon, Syria and Palestine? Are you thinking to redress a supposed wrong done to you? If you try force, I will quickly make your evil intentions recoil upon your own heads3. You have already taken treasure from the Land and fought against My people, now dispersed among the nations. But I shall rouse them to leave from wherever they are now and bring them back to all of the holy Land5. They will take over your possessions and live in the regenerated Land in peace and prosperity.

The Lord roars: a mighty shout from His dwelling place6 and the heavens and the earth shudder. A huge mass appears like the dawn coming over the mountains7, such as has never been seen before and will never be again. As it strikes, fire burns everything. As it passes, flames consume all the trees and pastures. There is no escape8 and no defense as it leaps over the mountaintops, advancing into the cities, bursting over walls, smashing through windows and leaving just a devastated waste behind. Everybody writhes in anguish and their faces turn white with fear. The whole Land is ruined, burnt and desolate9, the streams are dry and all the trees and crops are lost.

Just before the Day comes, the sun will be darkened and the moon will burn blood red10. Then everyone who calls upon the one true God11 will be saved and in Jerusalem there will be survivors12, those whom the Lord has set apart.

I shall remove the Northern peril far from you and destroy them in the wastelands13, the smell of their rotting bodies will rise up from the desert.

After all that must happen, the Lord will pour out His spirit upon all mankind14 and people will see visions and dream great things.

Reference: The Bible Book of the Prophet Joel. REB, CJB, NIV, KJV. Abridged and arranged sequentially.

Scripture references:

1/ The Day of the Lord: Deut. 7:10, Isaiah 6:11-12, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jer. 46:10, Rev. 6:12-17

2/ Judgement of the nations: Psalms 2:8-9, Ezekiel 7:7, Zeph. 3:8, Hab. 3:12

3/ Recoil upon their heads: Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 83:16, Obadiah 1:15

4/ The Lord’s people: Isaiah 40:26-31, Isaiah 56:3, Psalms 68:20-21

5/ The Second Exodus: Isaiah 11:11-12, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Jer. 31:27-28

6/ A great noise will be heard around the world: Isaiah 30:30, Jer. 25:30-31, Isaiah 29:6

7/ A Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike, that will ‘appear like the dawn’: That is: as the earth rotates to face the sun. Deut. 32:22, Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:10

8/ No escape for anyone in the holy Land, the rest of the world will be severely affected, but most will survive: Isaiah 2:9, Psalms 37:20, Amos 9:1-4, Zephaniah 1:3

9/ The holy Land, desolated: Isaiah 13:9, Isaiah 24:1-6, Jeremiah 7:20, Ezekiel 30:1-5

10/The sun is obscured by the approaching CME and the moon will burn when the superheated mass hits it. Acts 2:19-20

11/ We must call to the Lord for our protection and salvation: Isaiah 12:4, Zeph. 3:9, Psalm 6:8-10

12/ There will be a few Jewish survivors in Jerusalem: Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 6:13

13/ The destruction of the Gog/Magog armies, a few years later: Ezekiel 38 & 39

14/ In the Millennium, to come after all this: Isaiah 33:17-24, Psalms 47:1-9, Micah 4:1-4, Rev. 20:4-6

 

[Dave L]

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

What does the gospel do in this case then? When he is loosed he is not still bound, now is he? You said the gospel binds satan. Now tell us what it does to him when he is not bound.

This is when Satan rallies the world against the church with his lies, symbolized by ancient Gog and Magog, just before Christ returns. It is what you might call the post Christian era. Much like today where Satan lies (pseudo science, evolution, etc.) to deceive the church. This means Christ can return at any time.

 

[Dave L]

This is only true if 75% of all Bible prophecy is false.

Revelation 20 disproves Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. Because the resurrection and the rapture happen on the last day, when the world ends. But they say it happens 1000-1007 years before the world ends. And God, not they, only knows the time of the end.

 

[Biblewriter]

Revelation 20 disproves Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. Because the resurrection and the rapture happen on the last day, when the world ends. But they say it happens 1000-1007 years before the world ends. And God, not they, only knows the time of the end.

I have already demonstrated, right here in this thread, that like ourselves, scripture OFTEN uses the word "day" to represent an indistinct period of time.

You are explicitly denying MOST of what our God has EXPLICITLY said will take place in a time to come.

I see no reason to continue this pointless exchange, as you consider your interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures more authoritative than the explicit statements of many scriptures.

 

[Dave L]

I have already demonstrated, right here in this thread, that like ourselves, scripture OFTEN uses the word "day" to represent an indistinct period of time.

You are explicitly denying MOST of what our God has EXPLICITLY said will take place in a time to come.

I see no reason to continue this pointless exchange, as you consider your interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures more authoritative than the explicit statements of many scriptures.

You have many problems besides this. As I said earlier, according to Paul and the gospels the kingdom on earth ends at the resurrection and rapture on the last day. So you must cram all that follows the 1000 years in Revelation when God looses Satan, into the last hours of the last day. And even then, with the saints already in the new heaven and earth, Satan hasn't anyone to attack but resurrected dead sinners.

There is more.....

 

[BABerean2]

....which is cited [in the Book of Revelation to happen -many years- [Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 18] before the Day of the Lord which will be The Day of The Coming of Jesus [Revelation 19] ,cited to occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION Of THOSE DAYS in Matthew 24:29-31.

You are trying to make your premill doctrine work again by ignoring the Second Coming of Christ with those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of chapter 6.
Why are they hiding from the Lamb if He is not present at that point in time? We know that based on Revelation 16:15-16 the book is not in chronological order.

You are also ignoring the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:15-18.

And the "harvest" of Revelation chapter 14.

And Christ returning "as at thief" at "Armageddon", in Revelation 16:15-16.
If Christ returns here, and also in chapter 19, how can the Book of Revelation be in chronological order?

You are ignoring the fact that He judges both the living and the dead at His return in 2 Timothy 4:1.

Then you are ignoring Matthew 25:31-46.

You are ignoring the fire coming at His return in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Ignore all of the above and maybe you can make your doctrine work.
It has worked for you so far...


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Has everyone on this thread had a chance to view and vote on my thread concerning Jerusalem 70 ad being in Revelation?
Thank you

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/what-great-city-is-being-symbolized-in-revelation.8073941/
What great city is being symbolized in Revelation" [poll thread]

 

[seventysevens]

I have already demonstrated, right here in this thread, that like ourselves, scripture OFTEN uses the word "day" to represent an indistinct period of time.

You are explicitly denying MOST of what our God has EXPLICITLY said will take place in a time to come.

I see no reason to continue this pointless exchange, as you consider your interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures more authoritative than the explicit statements of many scriptures.

Yes you did indeed - but the thing is just as many Jews are blinded to the truth that Jesus IS their messiah and they reject Him vehemently and will not see the truth until Jesus actually returns so then at that time their blindness is revealed unto them - in the same way those that follow the amil/preterist doctrine are also severely blinded and cannot see the truth and no matter how many details of truth you give them , no matter how vividly you describe the truth to them - they cannot see the truth because of their blindness and that blindness is likely to continue until the day that Jesus returns.
Anyone that would take scripture as clearly written as Rev 20 where it describes satan being cast into the pit when Jesus returns and perverts it's true meaning into something that has no valid sensibility is truly blinded -

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation 20 disproves Premillennialism and Dispensatioalism. Paul says Christ delivers the kingdom up to the Father at the resurrection and rapture. Other scriptures say this happens on the last day.

This is only true if 75% of all Bible prophecy is false.

Revelation 20 disproves Premillennialism and Dispensationalism. Because the resurrection and the rapture happen on the last day, when the world ends. But they say it happens 1000-1007 years before the world ends. And God, not they, only knows the time of the end.

I have already demonstrated, right here in this thread, that like ourselves, scripture OFTEN uses the word "day" to represent an indistinct period of time.

You are explicitly denying MOST of what our God has EXPLICITLY said will take place in a time to come.

I see no reason to continue this pointless exchange, as you consider your interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures more authoritative than the explicit statements of many scriptures.

You have many problems besides this. As I said earlier, according to Paul and the gospels the kingdom on earth ends at the resurrection and rapture on the last day. So you must cram all that follows the 1000 years in Revelation when God looses Satan, into the last hours of the last day. And even then, with the saints already in the new heaven and earth, Satan hasn't anyone to attack but resurrected dead sinners.

There is more.....

Yes you did indeed - but the thing is just as many Jews are blinded to the truth that Jesus IS their messiah and they reject Him vehemently and will not see the truth until Jesus actually returns so then at that time their blindness is revealed unto them - in the same way those that follow the amil/preterist doctrine are also severely blinded and cannot see the truth and no matter how many details of truth you give them , no matter how vividly you describe the truth to them - they cannot see the truth because of their blindness and that blindness is likely to continue until the day that Jesus returns.
Anyone that would take scripture as clearly written as Rev 20 where it describes satan being cast into the pit when Jesus returns and perverts it's true meaning into something that has no valid sensibility is truly blinded -

Same old song and dance I see..............
Btw, have you had a chance to look over this thread?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/what-great-city-is-being-symbolized-in-revelation.8073941/
What great city is being symbolized in Revelation" [poll thread]

 

[Dave L]

Yes you did indeed - but the thing is just as many Jews are blinded to the truth that Jesus IS their messiah and they reject Him vehemently and will not see the truth until Jesus actually returns so then at that time their blindness is revealed unto them - in the same way those that follow the amil/preterist doctrine are also severely blinded and cannot see the truth and no matter how many details of truth you give them , no matter how vividly you describe the truth to them - they cannot see the truth because of their blindness and that blindness is likely to continue until the day that Jesus returns.
Anyone that would take scripture as clearly written as Rev 20 where it describes satan being cast into the pit when Jesus returns and perverts it's true meaning into something that has no valid sensibility is truly blinded -

It is odd that you believe just as the blind Jews did about the end times and accuse those who do not believe your way as being blind.

 

[seventysevens]

Same old song and dance I see..............
Btw, have you had a chance to look over this thread?

It is past due time to learn a new song , and dance a new dance of Truth and flush those old lies down the toilet where they belong

 

[seventysevens]

It is odd that you believe just as the blind Jews did about the end times and accuse those who do not believe your way as being blind.

of course you remain in total denial of truth

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑

Same old song and dance I see..............
Btw, have you had a chance to look over this thread?

It is past due time to learn a new song , and dance a new dance of Truth and flush those old lies down the toilet where they belong

Amen!
In that case, let's dance.......

Revelation 18:
22
“The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore.
No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.
23
“The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore.
For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

Jeremiah 16:
9
For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel:
“Behold! I will cause to cease from this place, before your eyes and in your days,
the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride.
10
“And it shall be, when you show this people all these words, and they say to you, ‘Why has the LORD pronounced all this great disaster against us? Or what is our iniquity? Or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?’

 

[seventysevens]

Amen!
In that case, let's dance.......

Amen!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

statistics for thread: and still hasn't been resolved LOL

Replies: 1,097

Views: 7,564
Dave L , Jul 3, 2018

 

[Dave L]

of course you remain in total denial of truth

You believe as the Pharisees did and not as Jesus and the Apostles did. They preached the gospel of the kingdom. You preach a gospel of a future kingdom.