Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual. So all try to build a physical kingdom on earth in Christ’s name. This includes Amillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Premillennialists, who look for a physical kingdom of the future that will last 1000 years.


But scripture teaches the Kingdom is here now - spiritually. It is not of this world. And it is everlasting.


The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree.


The Postmillennialists say the same thinking the Church will finally influence and dominate civil laws and magistrates. A sort of "Christianized" world. Some Dominion Postmillennial groups plan a violent takeover of the world.


Premillennialist and Dispensationalists see a physical kingdom ruling the world by force after Jesus returns.


But the common error in all groups is the physical kingdom concept and the comingling of Church and State that Jesus keeps separate when he says his kingdom is not of this world.


Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Dave L]

Zechariah 14 ends showing that people will have to come to Jerusalem and keep the feast of tabernacles - or get no rain

they will come to Jerusalem - to worship the King

What theory does this fit under? Is it a physical kingdom? If so, is it biblical? Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Zechariah 14 ends showing that people will have to come to Jerusalem and keep the feast of tabernacles - or get no rain

they will come to Jerusalem - to worship the King

If you adopt a spiritual perspective, such that the spiritual TEMPLE. Is the Christian CHURCH? Then spiritual JERUSALEM in which the temple resides. Might be surrounding. Christian SOCIETY??

 

[συνείδησις]

Zechariah 14 ends showing that people will have to come to Jerusalem and keep the feast of tabernacles - or get no rain
they will come to Jerusalem - to worship the King

They already have and are.

But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to tens of thousands of angels, to the festal gathering Hebrews 12:22​

 

[συνείδησις]

GOD made a blood covenant with Abram as surety that he would give to him the land of Canaan (Genesis 15:8, 18)). GOD's not a liar. The kingdom of GOD will come to earth.

 

[συνείδησις]

What theory does this fit under? Is it a physical kingdom? If so, is it biblical? Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

I think you're working from a false dichotomy, i.e., physical vs. spiritual. That was the gnostics' error.

The true dichotomy is natural vs. spiritual (first Adam vs. last Adam). The resurrected Jesus is a physical being (Luke 24:39). The spiritual world is not vapor; it's just invisible to natural eyes.

 

[iamlamad]

I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual. So all try to build a physical kingdom on earth in Christ’s name. This includes Amillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Premillennialists, who look for a physical kingdom of the future that will last 1000 years.


But scripture teaches the Kingdom is here now - spiritually. It is not of this world. And it is everlasting.


The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree.


The Postmillennialists say the same thinking the Church will finally influence and dominate civil laws and magistrates. A sort of "Christianized" world. Some Dominion Postmillennial groups plan a violent takeover of the world.


Premillennialist and Dispensationalists see a physical kingdom ruling the world by force after Jesus returns.


But the common error in all groups is the physical kingdom concept and the comingling of Church and State that Jesus keeps separate when he says his kingdom is not of this world.


Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

The answer is simple: the Kingdom of God is here not spiritually in hearts of the Body of Christ on earth. But the physical kingdom will come just as the bible shows us. Jesus will reign on earth for a thousand years.

 

[Radagast]

The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical.

No, I don't think they do. See Augustine's City of God for the classic Amillennialist view.

 

[SamJakobs]

The answer is simple: the Kingdom of God is here not spiritually in hearts of the Body of Christ on earth. But the physical kingdom will come just as the bible shows us. Jesus will reign on earth for a thousand years.

Agreed. The Kingdom of God is a physical kingdom where Jesus will reign for a thousand years.

 

[Erik Nelson]

GOD made a blood covenant with Abram as surety that he would give to him the land of Canaan. GOD's not a liar. The kingdom of GOD will come to earth.

Solomon ruled all of the promised territory 3000 years ago

 

[Sabertooth]

Nebuchadnezzar's dream [Daniel 2] points, ultimately, to a physical Thearchy.
That interpretation is reinforced by Acts of the Apostles 1:10-11,

"And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'”

 

[Hank77]

The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical.

Actually no. Amillennialism says that the kingdom is now but it is spiritual and always will be spiritual on this earth.

Amillennialism is a view in Christian eschatology that denies a literal thousand-year, physical reign of Jesus Christ on earth.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Amillennialism

 

[συνείδησις]

Solomon ruled all of the promised territory 3000 years ago

Yes, he did, and so did David, but Abraham hasn't received his inheritance yet.

 

[Hank77]

GOD made a blood covenant with Abram as surety that he would give to him the land of Canaan (Genesis 15:8, 18)). GOD's not a liar. The kingdom of GOD will come to earth.

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[Hank77]

Yes, he did, and so did David, but Abraham hasn't received his inheritance yet.

?

 

[Dave L]

Actually no. Amillennialism says that the kingdom is now but it is spiritual and always will be spiritual on this earth.

Amillennialism is a view in Christian eschatology that denies a literal thousand-year, physical reign of Jesus Christ on earth.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Amillennialism

Their claim of a physical kingdom in the Papacy, Reformed, and Lutheran State Churches killed many nonconformists.

 

[Dave L]

The answer is simple: the Kingdom of God is here not spiritually in hearts of the Body of Christ on earth. But the physical kingdom will come just as the bible shows us. Jesus will reign on earth for a thousand years.

But Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world. It comes without observation, and is within you.

 

[Dave L]

I think you're working from a false dichotomy, i.e., physical vs. spiritual. That was the gnostics' error.

The true dichotomy is natural vs. spiritual (first Adam vs. last Adam). The resurrected Jesus is a physical being (Luke 24:39). The spiritual world is not vapor; it's just invisible to natural eyes.

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world, it comes without observation, and is within you.

 

[συνείδησις]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Israel wasn't Abraham. Abraham has yet to inherit the land. GOD will not let that promise go unfilled (a promise backed by a blood covenant).