Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

συνείδησις

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An earthly kingdom was never in God's plan. His plan was to set up a spiritual kingdom

There's that false dichotomy again - earth and spirit. It was never GOD's plan to have a natural kingdom. Spiritual doesn't preclude the earth, but it does preclude the natural. First the natural, then the spiritual.

If it's not GOD's plan to have a spiritual kingdom on earth, then why did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray, "Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it's done in heaven."?
 
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claninja

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But he never inherited it. He was a sojourner there with GOD his entire life. He only owned the cave that he was buried in.

Even though Israel inherited and possessed the land as Stated in Joshua 21:43, They were still sojourners, just like abraham was a sojourner living in the promiseland.

“The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine. For you are strangers and sojourners with me. And in all the country you possess, you shall allow a redemption of the land.
Leviticus 25:23-24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Leviticus 25:23-24&version=ESV

For we are strangers before you and sojourners, as all our fathers were. Our days on the earth are like a shadow, and there is no abiding.
1 Chronicles 29:15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Chronicles 29:15&version=ESV

Why? Because the promise land under the old covenant was only a shadow of the better promises of the new covenant in Christ.


But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
Hebrews 11:16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 11:16&version=ESV
 
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συνείδησις

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Actually they didn't clear the Land as they were told to do. Judges 1:19, 21,27, and 29-34 all say how the original inhabitants remained and eventually caused problems of the Israelites.

The final fulfilment of all the Lord's faithful people living in all of the Promised Land, awaits the cleansing and clearance that the Lord will do on His Day of wrath. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, +

That's not GOD's problem. He fulfilled his promise. The book says so.
 
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keras

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Not to butt in, but Canaan is temporal, to end in fire. But the Promise is eternal.
What is the Eternal Promise?
Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
After the Millennium reign of Jesus there come the Judgement and those whose names are in the Book of Life, will receive immortality and will live with God on earth. Revelation 21:1-7
 
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συνείδησις

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But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

The word country is not in the text.
 
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συνείδησις

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Even though Israel inherited and possessed the land as Stated in Joshua 21:43, They were still sojourners, just like abraham was a sojourner living in the promiseland.

But Abraham didn't even inherit the land at all. That promise is yet unfulfilled.

And he did not give him an inheritance in it—not even a footstep—and he promised to give it to him for his possession, and to his seed after him, although he did not have a child. Acts 7:5
 
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claninja

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But Abraham didn't even inherit the land at all. That promise is yet unfulfilled.

And he did not give him an inheritance in it—not even a footstep—and he promised to give it to him for his possession, and to his seed after him, although he did not have a child. Acts 7:5

Which clearly shows that the true promiseland is a heavenly one.
 
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Thedictator

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This contradicts scripture. When Jesus Returns, He will destroy the attacking armies and bind up their leader; that is Satan. Revelation 19:11-21
The world will continue as is, until the end of His Millennium reign.

Well no it does not, The book of Revelation is mostly symbolic, figurative, and in code that the first Century Christian would understand was coming. Rome was about to persecute the Church like the world had never seen. The Book of Revelation is not literal in most of what is states.
 
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συνείδησις

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I agree, but it doesn’t change the fact that their true desire was for heaven, as the Greek adjective for heavenly is in the passage.

Abraham's desire was for a city made by GOD, the New Jerusalem (same verse), which in another verse is described as descending out of heaven after the millennium to where men are on earth.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men, and he will take up residence with them, and they will be his people and God himself will be with them as their God. Revelation 21:2-3
 
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Thedictator

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There's that false dichotomy again - earth and spirit. It was never GOD's plan to have a natural kingdom. Spiritual doesn't preclude the earth, but it does preclude the natural. First the natural, then the spiritual.

If it's not GOD's plan to have a spiritual kingdom on earth, then why did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray, "Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it's done in heaven."?

That is not what I'm saying at all, The Church is God's Spiritual Kingdom on Earth.
 
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Erik Nelson

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As I understand, according to Acts 2:30–31, Jesus presently reigns over earth on David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.

“So then, because he [David] was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne,” (Acts 2:30)

“David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay.” (Acts 2:31)

Paul says he must reign until the resurrection on the last day. When he defeats the last enemy death.

“For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death. For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. But when it says “everything” has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–27)

So, the "full" Second Coming = Revelation 20:10 onwards?

Second Coming to judge the living and otherwise = Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20:10 ?

The "mini second coming like event" of Rev 19 does involve a partial resurrection of Saints who rise to reign with Christ in the Millennium... all of which I would suggest is in a heavenly spiritual sense...

but Rev 19 involves no Judgement in its full sense of opening of the books of works & Book of LIfe…

so Rev 19 cannot be the full Second Coming ?
 
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Erik Nelson

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But Abraham didn't even inherit the land at all. That promise is yet unfulfilled.

And he did not give him an inheritance in it—not even a footstep—and he promised to give it to him for his possession, and to his seed after him, although he did not have a child. Acts 7:5
Solomon ruled all of the promised territories
 
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jgr

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If it's not GOD's plan to have a spiritual kingdom on earth, then why did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray, "Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it's done in heaven."?

The kingdom came.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Jesus reigns on earth during the 1000 years -as the scripture says satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years and then is released after the 1000 years is over and Jesus is still reigning after that happens -
The Millennium is a Christian realm steeped in the spiritual presence of Christ and the Saints (Revelation 20:4-6).

However, the Second Coming to judge the quick & otherwise (2 Timothy 4:1 = Apostles' Creed = Nicene Creed) would "have" to be Revelation 20:10, yes? That is the only place & time when & where the Book of Life (and maybe along with some other "books of works" as it were) is opened
 
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Erik Nelson

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The kingdom came.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
What about the "on earth as it [already] is in Heaven" part?

God and God's realm exists, in heaven... yet believers want that realm to extend to include earth as well
 
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Erik Nelson

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This contradicts scripture. When Jesus Returns, He will destroy the attacking armies and bind up their leader; that is Satan. Revelation 19:11-21
The world will continue as is, until the end of His Millennium reign.
could we not identify the "full" Second Coming = Revelation 20:10 onwards?

If the Second Coming = Judgement of quick & otherwise [2 Tim 4:1 = Apostles' & Nicene Creeds]

and Judgement of all = Rev 20:10 onwards

then the full Second Coming = Rev 20:10+

Rev 19, which you accurately described, would then be some sort of "mini second coming like pre-event", foreshadowing the full event & full onset of God's salvific rule on earth at Judgement
 
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Hank77

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One aspect being spiritual, such as we experience in the here and now, the other aspect being physical, as in once Jesus physically returns?
I believe the new earth will be physical. We will have bodies, the Word says we will. But they will be bodies like Jesus, whatever form that is, maybe like His after His resurrection.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Here's Peter and Jesus on the matter.

Jesus now sits on David's Throne since his resurrection/ascension Acts 2:29 through Acts 2:33. Jesus earlier said this kingdom was "at hand" Matthew 3:2, "within you" Luke 17:21, "not of this world" John 18:36 and "comes without observation" Luke 17:20, being spiritual in nature.

And one must be born again to see it John 3:3. It is the kingdom many still look for physically in Premillennialism and Dispensationalism even though it has been here unnoticed and in heaven since Pentecost 33 AD. Where Jesus remains on David's Throne/God's Throne 1 Chronicles 29:23 until the resurrection of the dead at the end of the world 1 Corinthians 15:21–26.

““To him who overcomes will I grant to sit with Me on My throne [future], as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne [presently in heaven]. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”” (Revelation 3:21–22)

“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28)

“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His face the earth and the heavens fled away, and no place was found for them.” (Revelation 20:11)

““When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.” (Matthew 25:31)


Kingdom of God in time and later in eternity
keyword (one of them) being "throne"

God has granted Christ the Throne

the Great White Throne arrival event of Revelation 20:11 = 2nd Coming
 
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