Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[seventysevens]

I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual.

What do you call spiritual?
All through the Holy Bible there are scriptures that tell us that we will be WITH Jesus in a physical bodily form , a new physical body that that will never die , never have illness , a body that is like the body Jesus had when he rose from the grave .
Any eschatological view that ignores these facts is wrong
Jesus had a spiritual body when he rose from the grave but yet it was a physical body that Jesus told Thomas to put his hand in Jesus side to feel the wound in Jesus side , yet that same body entered into a room with a locked door without that door being opened
Many people focus on only the verses that are most often taught in church as they do not really study Gods Word , but merely just accept whatever some preacher says -

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree.

Some misguided Amillennialists do believe this but it not biblical Amillennialism.

Amillennialism - A Word Direct From The Scriptures

 

[Thedictator]

I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual. So all try to build a physical kingdom on earth in Christ’s name. This includes Amillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Premillennialists, who look for a physical kingdom of the future that will last 1000 years.But scripture teaches the Kingdom is here now - spiritually. It is not of this world. And it is everlasting.The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree. The Postmillennialists say the same thinking the Church will finally influence and dominate civil laws and magistrates. A sort of "Christianized" world. Some Dominion Postmillennial groups plan a violent takeover of the world. Premillennialist and Dispensationalists see a physical kingdom ruling the world by force after Jesus returns. But the common error in all groups is the physical kingdom concept and the comingling of Church and State that Jesus keeps separate when he says his kingdom is not of this world. Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

The Kingdom of God is the Church, they are one in the same. God rules his people through the church and his Word.

 

[συνείδησις]

Genesis 15:18-20 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadie of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Paul made it clear in Galatians 3:16 that the seed refers to Christ, not descendents.

Furthermore, Abraham asked GOD for surety that he would indeed inherit the land. GOD responded by cutting a blood covenant with him and promising the land to - not Abraham, but - his seed. What confidence could that possibly have given Abraham for GOD to promise to give the land to his descendents who would die like he would? It wouldn't give him any confidence because he couldn't receive anything from them. Abraham knew that GOD was referring to his seed, Christ, through whom he would receive the inheritance in the resurrection.

 

[Dave L]

Some misguided Amillennialists do believe this but it not biblical Amillennialism.

Amillennialism - A Word Direct From The Scriptures

To disagree with the state church(s) was treason and many died so doing.

 

[Dave L]

What do you call spiritual?
All through the Holy Bible there are scriptures that tell us that we will be WITH Jesus in a physical bodily form , a new physical body that that will never die , never have illness , a body that is like the body Jesus had when he rose from the grave .
Any eschatological view that ignores these facts is wrong
Jesus had a spiritual body when he rose from the grave but yet it was a physical body that Jesus told Thomas to put his hand in Jesus side to feel the wound in Jesus side , yet that same body entered into a room with a locked door without that door being opened
Many people focus on only the verses that are most often taught in church as they do not really study Gods Word , but merely just accept whatever some preacher says -

One reason we must consider is that the kingdom is eternal. And the earth will end in fire.

 

[Dave L]

Nevertheless, Abraham hasn't yet inherited what was promised to him (by blood covenant, no less). Whether it is eternal or not is irrelevant.

However, the earth isn't going anywhere. The world system and its works will end, but not the earth. Man was made to dwell on earth, not in heaven. GOD the father will come to earth once it is cleansed of all rebellion, as it was in the beginning.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Peter 3:10)


“looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:12–13)

 

[claninja]

Paul made it clear in Galatians 3:16 that the seed refers to Christ, not descendents.

Furthermore, Abraham asked GOD for surety that he would indeed inherit the land. GOD responded by cutting a blood covenant with him and promising the land to - not Abraham, but - his seed. What confidence could that possibly have given Abraham for GOD to promise to give the land to his descendents who would die like he would? It wouldn't give him any confidence because he couldn't receive anything from them. Abraham knew that GOD was referring to his seed, Christ, through whom he would receive the inheritance in the resurrection.

I agree.

But you stated Abraham has not yet inherited the physical land. Scripture states he lived and died in the promise land

 

[seventysevens]

One reason we must consider is that the kingdom is eternal. And the earth will end in fire.

Yes the kingdom is eternal , but the earth will not be burned with fire until after satan is cast into the lake of fire and death is cast into the lake of fire which will result in no more death for anyone and no more sin for anyone but yet we will live on earth with Jesus reigning on this earth until all this is fulfilled
and you did not answer the questions I asked ---

 

[DavidPT]

Thanks for asking. Please consider:

“So when they had gathered together, they began to ask him, “Lord, is this the time when you are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He told them, “You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority.” (Acts 1:6–7)

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. “But as for that day or hour no one knows it—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son—except the Father.” (Mark 13:31–32)

The Kingdom is here now, as already shown. But the end of the world and the restoration will come at a time known only to the Father.

But here's another thought. The pre-tribber knows when the end happens. It is 1007 years from the "rapture". Or the Premillennialist knows too, it is 1000 years from Christ's return. This alone shows how wrong these views are.

I fully agree with your point in regards to Pretribbers. Since no one can know the day and hour, obviously many could almost predict it to a science assuming a Pretrib rapture actually occurred. But applying that same logic to Premil though, you are not making sense in that regards. That day and hour that knoweth know man, and even if assuming Premil, that day and hour would have already come and gone when the thousand years initially begins.

 

[seventysevens]

His kingdom is eternal, not 1000 long. .

Jesus reigns on earth during the 1000 years -as the scripture says satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years and then is released after the 1000 years is over and Jesus is still reigning after that happens -

 

[TribulationSigns]

To disagree with the state church(s) was treason and many died so doing.

And your point is?

That does not reflect Biblical Amillennialism. Didn't you actually read the article?

 

[συνείδησις]

I agree.

But you stated Abraham has not yet inherited the physical land. Scripture states he lived and died in the promise land

But he never inherited it. He was a sojourner there with GOD his entire life. He only owned the cave that he was buried in.

 

[DavidPT]

The Kingdom of God is the Church, they are one in the same. God rules his people through the church and his Word.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


What this verse basically means is the following then? they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the church to Israel?

And since some also conclude the church is Israel, that would have this verse saying the following----they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the church to the church?

Maybe it's only me, but I'm at loss as to how to make sense of some of these texts if in some of these texts things are meaning what some are claiming they are meaning.

 

[Thedictator]

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
What this verse basically means is the following then? they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the church to Israel? And since some also conclude the church is Israel, that would have this verse saying the following----they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the church to the church? Maybe it's only me, but I'm at loss as to how to make sense of some of these texts if in some of these texts things are meaning what some are claiming they are meaning.

What is going on here is that the Apostles like the rest of the Jews misunderstood the mission of Jesus Christ, they are still thinking he is going to become an Earthly King and overthrow the Roman Empire and take power over the known world. They believed they would become government leaders with him. An earthly kingdom was never in God's plan. His plan was to set up a spiritual kingdom by which he would rule from the hearts of man through the Church and the Word of God. One of the temptations of Satan was he would give Jesus all the Kingdoms of the Earth to rule. Jesus mission was not to rule on Earth but to give salvation to man. Some churches have fallen into the heresy of the Jews as the Messiah as the conquering ruler of Israel.

 

[DavidPT]

An earthly kingdom was never in God's plan. His plan was to set up a spiritual kingdom by which he would rule from the hearts of man through the Church and the Word of God.

But once He physically returns though, how can an earthly kingdom not be part of the plan at that time? How does a spiritual kingdom, such as we are experiencing in the here and now, where it involves spiritually fighting spirits of darkness, such as satan and his ilk, be the way it will be throughout all eternity? Eventually satan and his ilk will be cast into the LOF to never be heard from again for forever. Why would one still need a spiritual kingdom in the sense it is now, after that, and for all of eternity on top of that? Why can't some accept there are 2 aspects of the kingdom. One aspect being spiritual, such as we experience in the here and now, the other aspect being physical, as in once Jesus physically returns?

 

[keras]

When Jesus returns, the heavens and earth pass away with a loud noise and all is burnt up. This ushers in the New Heaven and Earth. This alone says any "forever" passages in the OT need interpretation.

The New Heaven and New Earth do not appear until after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[Thedictator]

But once He physically returns though, how can an earthly kingdom not be part of the plan at that time? How does a spiritual kingdom, such as we are experiencing in the here and now, where it involves spiritually fighting spirits of darkness, such as satan and his ilk, be the way it will be throughout all eternity? Eventually satan and his ilk will be cast into the LOF to never be heard from again for forever. Why would one still need a spiritual kingdom in the sense it is now, after that, and for all of eternity on top of that? Why can't some accept there are 2 aspects of the kingdom. One aspect being spiritual, such as we experience in the here and now, the other aspect being physical, as in once Jesus physically returns?

The Apostle Peter in his second book states that the universe and world we now live in will come to an end by fire. This will take place when Jesus Christ comes back, The dimension of time and the physical universe will come to an end. Only the spiritual will exist. Now a new Earth and universe will be created by God, whether that existence will be physical or spiritual or a combination of both I don't know, it does not matter the old physical life will be gone. Jesus Christ will never rule this sinful physical world by force. Jesus Christ rule is eternal with his subjects, not temporary.

 

[keras]

God fulfilled his promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:
Joshua 21:43 43So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there.

Actually they didn't clear the Land as they were told to do. Judges 1:19, 21,27, and 29-34 all say how the original inhabitants remained and eventually caused problems for the Israelites, leading to their eviction out of the Land.

The final fulfilment of all the Lord's faithful people living in all of the Promised Land, awaits the cleansing and clearance that the Lord will do on His Day of wrath. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, +

 

[keras]

The Apostle Peter in his second book states that the universe and world we now live in will come to an end by fire. This will take place when Jesus Christ comes back,

This contradicts scripture. When Jesus Returns, He will destroy the attacking armies and bind up their leader; that is Satan. Revelation 19:11-21
The world will continue as is, until the end of His Millennium reign.