Are all born again Christians saved?

Oloyedelove

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What makes you say that? It is a very plain Scripture.

The word "baptized" means immersed, and we are told here that the Holy Spirit "immerses", or joins each and every believer to the Body of Christ. He is the Head, and all believers are members of His Body, and all partake ("drink") of the Holy Spirit, since all receive the gift of the Spirit when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

At the same time, Christ does not recognize any distinctions of ethnicity, social status, or anything else within His Body, since all are children of God by faith. This is the Church, the Body of Christ.

We are not joined to his body, we are his body. When men see us, they are literally looking at his body.
Now I'd like to ask you a question Paul asked the Corinthian,
1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
What does he mean by God forbid? What did God forbid?
 
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zoidar

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Sure.

"I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, 'Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Isaiah the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, says the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.'

And for this we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we are born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Spirit, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.
" - St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, Ch. 61

"'And dipped himself,' says [the Scripture], 'seven times in Jordan.' It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [it served] as an indication for us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Unless a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.'" - St. Irenaeus, Fragments, 34

"But give me now your best attention, I pray you, for I wish to go back to the fountain of life, and to view the fountain that gushes with healing. The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and He, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the breath of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be god*. And if he is made god* by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all you kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism. I bring good tidings of life to you who tarry in the darkness of ignorance. Come into liberty from slavery, into a kingdom from tyranny, into incorruption from corruption. And how, says one, shall we come? How? By water and the Holy Spirit. This is the water in conjunction with the Spirit, by which paradise is watered, by which the earth is enriched, by which plants grow, by which animals multiply, and (to sum up the whole in a single word) by which man is born again and endued with life, in which also Christ was baptized, and in which the Spirit descended in the form of a dove." - St. Hippolytus, Discourse on the Holy Theophany, ch. 8

*c.f. 2 Peter 1:4

I could keep going, but I figure this might be sufficient. As early and for as long as anyone talked about the new birth in Christianity it has been identified explicitly with Holy Baptism.

Don't simply take my word for it, you are welcome to see for yourself by looking at the historical record. That's what I did, and is one of the reasons why my own views on the subject changed: the words of Scripture, the testimony of the ancient Church, and the demonstrable consensus on the subject throughout the history of Christianity was simply an overwhelming amount of evidence that I had to take seriously.

-CryptoLutheran

This sounds though like the believer's baptism ...
 
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dms1972

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This may sound like a stupid question. I apologize if it comes off as stupid I'm 100% sincere. But are all born again Christians saved? There are many varying opinions on google so I was searching for the correct interpretation.

You say there are 'many varying opinions' on google, what makes you think these forums will be any different?
 
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zoidar

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Yes, you are missing something called "repentance" (which is not merely a change of mind, as some insist). It is a change of direction. Turning from sins and idols, and turning to the living God and Christ. See 1 Thessalonians.

The relationship with Christ begins with repentance, that's true.
 
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Inkfingers

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This may sound like a stupid question. I apologize if it comes off as stupid I'm 100% sincere. But are all born again Christians saved? There are many varying opinions on google so I was searching for the correct interpretation.

I was under the impression that if you are not saved you are not born again, and if you are not born again then you are not saved, so its a little like asking if water is wetter than is H2O...
 
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Micah888

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We are not joined to his body, we are his body.
How did we become His Body if we were not first joined to it?
Here is what we read: "...are we all baptized into one body..."

"Baptized into" means "immersed into". And this is further clarified and confirmed in verse 18: But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

The picture here is of each member being individually "set" or placed, or joined to the Body of Christ. It is only after that that we "are" His body.

There are many things which occur at the New Birth, and this is one of them.
 
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zoidar

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Yes, you are missing something called "repentance" (which is not merely a change of mind, as some insist). It is a change of direction. Turning from sins and idols, and turning to the living God and Christ. See 1 Thessalonians.

Would be helpful if you also quote where in 1 Thess Paul talks about this. :wave:
 
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Oloyedelove

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How did we become His Body if we were not first joined to it?
Here is what we read: "...are we all baptized into one body..."

"Baptized into" means "immersed into". And this is further clarified and confirmed in verse 18: But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

The picture here is of each member being individually "set" or placed, or joined to the Body of Christ. It is only after that that we "are" His body.

There are many things which occur at the New Birth, and this is one of them.

Your picture of being a member of the body of Christ is not the scriptural picture. I wrote a very long reply to this and it got wiped. I don't think I can type that much again now.
Jesus body as explained in scriptures is not like an organization or group of people coming together to form a 'body'.
Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

We are all partakers of that one bread.
This is another way Apostle Paul present the picture
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
BECAUSE SHE WAS TAKEN OUT OF MAN. That's the right picture.
 
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Noxot

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being born from above implies that you are going through the process of salvation.

John 3:3 (YLT)
Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'


John 17:3 (YLT)
and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;
 
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ViaCrucis

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This sounds though like the believer's baptism ...

Justin is defending Christians from false charges that were made against us, the Apology is a written defense of Christian belief and practice addressed to the Emperor and Senate. Here Justin refers only to adult converts to Christianity, whatever Justin thinks of baptizing infants is no where found in this passage because that isn't the point. Elsewhere Justin will also speak of Baptism as spiritual circumcision,

"And we, who have approached God through Him, have received not carnal, but spiritual circumcision, which Enoch and those like him observed. And we have received it through baptism, since we were sinners, by God's mercy; and all men may equally obtain it." - Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 43

-CryptoLutheran
 
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aiki

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But are all born again Christians saved?

"Born again" and "saved" are synonymous.

Jesus was the first to use the phrase "born again." (John 3:3-7)

Being saved or born-again is accomplished apart from any good work. (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5)

Good works are to be the manifestation of a spiritually-regenerated life (aka born again), they aren't the means to that life.
 
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sunlover1

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This may sound like a stupid question. I apologize if it comes off as stupid I'm 100% sincere. But are all born again Christians saved? There are many varying opinions on google so I was searching for the correct interpretation.
If you're reborn, it means you're born again of the Spirit, and so you're a child of God now.
So yeah, a child of the Most High God is VERY SAVED!
WOOOT! :)
But then we wonder, how do we know if we're reborn?
 
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sunlover1

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I suspect we'll all go to heaven. The trip will be more painful for some than for others.
Please explain who "we'll" is.
I'm not following this.
Why would the trip be painful?
 
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zoidar

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Justin is defending Christians from false charges that were made against us, the Apology is a written defense of Christian belief and practice addressed to the Emperor and Senate. Here Justin refers only to adult converts to Christianity, whatever Justin thinks of baptizing infants is no where found in this passage because that isn't the point. Elsewhere Justin will also speak of Baptism as spiritual circumcision,

"And we, who have approached God through Him, have received not carnal, but spiritual circumcision, which Enoch and those like him observed. And we have received it through baptism, since we were sinners, by God's mercy; and all men may equally obtain it." - Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 43

-CryptoLutheran

Ok, but first you have faith then you get baptized. You won't get baptized if you don't have faith. So faith and baptism goes together if you hold to the doctrine of believers baptism. If a person gets baptized not being a believer there won't be any new birth.

From my own view rebirth happens when coming to faith, when the Holy Spirit enters the heart.

I'm not sure what I believe about infant baptism.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Ok, but first you have faith then you get baptized. You won't get baptized if you don't have faith. So faith and baptism goes together if you hold to the doctrine of believers baptism. If a person gets baptized not being a believer there won't be any new birth.

From my own view rebirth happens when coming to faith, when the Holy Spirit enters the heart.

I'm not sure what I believe about infant baptism.

The biblical response to this I'd offer is to remind that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17) and that Christ has cleansed us "by the washing of water by the word" (Ephesians 5:26). Faith is itself a gift given to us apart from ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) granted to us through the Word (Romans 10:17) and Baptism is Word (Ephesians 5:26). We can therefore say that the baptized person has faith by virtue of God's own word and promise attached to Baptism.

So baptized infants do have faith, they are believers in Jesus Christ. Faith isn't about intelligence, wisdom, or mental acuity; it is trust. Infants are capable of natural trust, as we see when the infant reaches out and latches out for his or her mother trusting implicitly in the mother's care, nurturing, and love. And if an infant can trust her mother, then an infant granted faith by God according to the promise of the Gospel most certainly can have faith in Christ who gives Himself freely.

We, as the community of the Faithful, further pledge ourselves to the baptized, whether they be infant or adult, in accordance with Christ's word to His Church, "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them all which I have said." We don't wait for the children of Christian parents to reach an arbitrary age before we commit ourselves to the discipling of them, but rather rear them up in the faith in accordance with the commandments and teachings of God, as per Proverbs 22:6.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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zoidar

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The biblical response to this I'd offer is to remind that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17) and that Christ has cleansed us "by the washing of water by the word" (Ephesians 5:26). Faith is itself a gift given to us apart from ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) granted to us through the Word (Romans 10:17) and Baptism is Word (Ephesians 5:26). We can therefore say that the baptized person has faith by virtue of God's own word and promise attached to Baptism.

So baptized infants do have faith, they are believers in Jesus Christ. Faith isn't about intelligence, wisdom, or mental acuity; it is trust. Infants are capable of natural trust, as we see when the infant reaches out and latches out for his or her mother trusting implicitly in the mother's care, nurturing, and love. And if an infant can trust her mother, then an infant granted faith by God according to the promise of the Gospel most certainly can have faith in Christ who gives Himself freely.

We, as the community of the Faithful, further pledge ourselves to the baptized, whether they be infant or adult, in accordance with Christ's word to His Church, "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them all which I have said." We don't wait for the children of Christian parents to reach an arbitrary age before we commit ourselves to the discipling of them, but rather rear them up in the faith in accordance with the commandments and teachings of God, as per Proverbs 22:6.

-CryptoLutheran

But you don't baptize adult unbelievers if they want to be baptized, do you? Why don't you do that since wouldn't baptism give them faith? I mean if infants are given faith in baptism.
 
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ViaCrucis

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But you don't baptize adult unbelievers if they want to be baptized, do you? Why don't you do that since wouldn't baptism give them faith? I mean if infants are given faith in baptism.

Lutherans refer to "Word and Sacrament" as one thing; because the preaching of the word (the proclamation of the Gospel) and the Sacraments (Baptism, the Eucharist, and Absolution) aren't "different" things, they are all Word, that is, where the proclamation of the Gospel is the preached Word the Sacraments are "visible Word". Looking back to Ephesians 5:26 Paul connects water and word together in a single washing, and so we say that Baptism is Baptism (and not mere water) because it is water connected to God's Word. Mere water can do nothing, only God's Word can do something because God's word is living and active, doing what God sends it forth to accomplish (Hebrews 4:12, Isaiah 55:11).

We baptize infants with the knowledge that repentance shall come with time, as the child is reared up with faith.

We baptize adults who are penitent, for having had much of their lives already lived outside of the faith we are calling them to repentance, faith, and baptism.

Nothing is different except the order. For St. Peter says, "Repent and be baptized all of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38) and the Lord in the longer ending of Mark's Gospel says, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16). We don't separate repentance and belief from Baptism, but comprehend them in and with Baptism.

The order isn't what matters, it's the gracious activity of God through Word and Sacrament that matters.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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