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Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

ToBeLoved

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John 2:11
This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.

Surely you think one is saved by believing in Jesus.
Satan believes. Faith is the criteria for salvation.

Faiths and belief are not the same although we many times use them interchangeably
 
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FreeGrace2

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Maybe the OSAS crowd should read this. Those who commit such things are of a reprobate mind and are worthy of death.
Who isn't worthy of death? That's the very reason Jesus Christ came to earth and died on a cross for the sins of mankind.

And the OSAS crowd understands clearly what Jesus said in John 10:28a. That those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

And prior to this verse, Jesus taught that those who believe have eternal life.
John 3:16, 5:24, 6:47.

Therefore, from the MOMENT one believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, possesses eternal life, and therefore, shall never perish.

No one has proven otherwise.
 
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EmSw

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Are you talking about spiritual death or physical death?

I am part of the OSAS crowd.

My point in that verse is all are called. It says in the verse that none are without excuse for seeing that there is a God.

Spiritual death. Everyone physically dies no matter their belief and life.
 
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EmSw

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Who isn't worthy of death? That's the very reason Jesus Christ came to earth and died on a cross for the sins of mankind.

And the OSAS crowd understands clearly what Jesus said in John 10:28a. That those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

And prior to this verse, Jesus taught that those who believe have eternal life.
John 3:16, 5:24, 6:47.

Therefore, from the MOMENT one believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, possesses eternal life, and therefore, shall never perish.

No one has proven otherwise.

He died to save mankind from physical death?

He gave us the truth concerning how not to perish. And it includes what man does.

Matthew 5
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Luke 13:3
I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Of course this is only for those who believe Him; those who believe Him from the heart. It is not for those who only give lip service.

Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"And the OSAS crowd understands clearly what Jesus said in John 10:28a. That those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

And prior to this verse, Jesus taught that those who believe have eternal life.
John 3:16, 5:24, 6:47.

Therefore, from the MOMENT one believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, possesses eternal life, and therefore, shall never perish."
He died to save mankind from physical death?
Playing dumb on purpose, or what? I wasn't taking about physical death here at all. As everyone knows.

The "never perish" promise is in regard to the "second death" or the lake of fire, as it is also called. That's the death that Jesus saves us from.

What did you think Jesus saves us from?

He gave us the truth concerning how not to perish. And it includes what man does.
The ONLY THING that man "does" in order to never perish is found in John 10:28a; to receive the gift of eternal life. Period.
 
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EmSw

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The ONLY THING that man "does" in order to never perish is found in John 10:28a; to receive the gift of eternal life. Period.

Somehow I knew you don't believe all the words Jesus said. Perhaps, 'if you don't likewise repent, you will perish', is only a fairy tale to you.
 
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Albion

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None of those verses in the OP seem to me to say that Judas was one of the Elect. Judas could very well have been used by Jesus for various purposes without being among those whom the Father gave Him (to paraphrase the Gospel of John on this subject).
 
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BNR32FAN

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Judas was once saved and then lost his salvation. This understanding defeats once and for all the false doctrine of eternal security or perseverance of the saints as it is taught by many.

1. Judas once belonged to the Father and was given to Jesus. Jesus said this when he was speaking of the twelve apostles in John 17,

“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me;...” John 17:6


Thine they were”, past tense, Judas was included in that.


2. Jesus called Judas one of “HIS” twelve disciples as we read;


“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples”

Matthew 10:1

Notice first, that all twelves of the disciples were “HIS”. They all belonged to Jesus, and none of them belonged to the devil at this time. Matthew did not lie when he wrote this, Nor was Jesus ignorant of who were HIS apostles. They were all HIS, (Judas included).


3. Jesus gave all HIS twelve disciples power, Judas included,

“he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Matthew 10:1

Here we see that all twelve of the apostles, (Judas included), were given power. And this power included casting out devils. This shows that Judas was not a devil at this time, for Satan cannot cast out Satan, as Jesus told us. And Judas had power to heal as well.


4. Judas was an apostle,

“Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,...and Judas Iscariot, ...” Matthew 10:2-4

An apostle is a sent one of God and a high calling. This is a gift from God to believers. Notice that all TWELVE were called apostles including Judas, not just the other eleven.


5. Judas was sent forth and ordained,


“These twelve Jesus sent forth,...”


Matthew 10:5

“And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,” Mark 3:14


Jesus sent all twelve of them forth to preach, Judas included. Jesus also equipped all of them to preach, Judas included. He “ORDAINED” them also, Judas included. To be ordained means that he recognized all of them and approved of them, Judas included.


6. Judas freely received and could cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse lepers, raise the dead, so he could also freely give as well.

“And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.” Matthew 10:7,8

This shows that he was a partaker of this ministry, obtaining part of the ministry like the others. To obtain means he was able to minister.


“...concerning Judas ...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. “ Acts 1:17

To obtain part of the ministry you must minister, and the ministry Judas had was spoken of in Matthew 10 and Mark 3.


7. Jesus called Judas one of his sheep! THIS IS A BIG POINT!!

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” Matthew 10:16

This was spoken to the twelve apostles, and Judas was one of the twelve sent as a sheep to the lost sheep. This shows that Judas was saved and had eternal life at this time, because he was a sheep of Jesus. And if he was lost, how could he help the lost sheep? Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and they know him. Judas was as a sheep amidst wolves, showing that Judas wasn't a wolf then.

“ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” John 10:27,28

Judas heard his voice and followed him and was a sheep as Jesus said, and so he had eternal life at the beginning of his ministry. Only the biased reader would ignore this


8. Judas had the peace of God to give to others, this was spoken to the twelve, Judas included,

“...let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.” Matthew 10:13


9. He also had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him, spoken to the twelve Judas included,

“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” Matthew 10:20

10. Judas belonged to the household of Jesus, as we read here spoken to the twelve Judas included.

“them of his household?” Matthew 10:25


11. Judas also was a familiar friend of Jesus once and was trusted by Jesus,

“ Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.” Psalms 41:9

Jesus told us that Psalm 41:9 was referring to Judas going against him,

“...but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.’ John 13:8

This proves that Judas was not always a devil or thief as some say. He was once trusted and a familiar friend of Jesus.

Jesus does not call devils familiar friends, and he does not trust them.


12. He was blotted out of the book of life. In Acts 1 we read,

“concerning Judas...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.... For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Acts 1:16-20

The Psalm mentioned here, refers to Judas,

“Let their habitation be desolate... Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” Psalms 69:25,28

He was once in the book of life with the righteous and then blotted out. So he was once saved and had eternal life then lost it.


13. He fell by transgression, showing that he was not always fallen. But rather that he fell at a certain point in time. And he fell by transgression, it was his own will and choice.

“That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell “ Acts 1:25


14. He betrayed Jesus at a certain point in time,

“Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.” “Matthew 26:48


To “betray”, means to once have the trust and to go against that trust, as Judas did. He could not have betrayed that trust if he was always a devil. Because Jesus doesn’t trust devils.

Near the end of Jesus ministry he said Judas was a devil, but this he spoke of Judas who should betray him, future tense. We read about this near the end of Jesus ministry in John 6:71. And “then Satan entered into him.” Luke 22:3, this , was at the end of Jesus ministry not at the beginning as we saw already.

So Judas fell away and lost his salvation.


so to sum up just some of the points

1. Judas Belonged to the Father before given to Jesus
2. Judas was a disciple of Jesus at the beginning
3. Judas was an apostle
4. Judas was a a sheep sent to the lost sheep
5. Judas was given power to cast out devils, raise the dead heal the sick ( and satan cannot cast put Satan as jesus said)
6. Judas had the peace of God to give

7. Judas was a familiar friend of Jesus whom he once trusted
8. Judas had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him when needed
9. Judas was written in the book of life once
10. Judas fell by transgression, and was blotted out

This event in Matthew and Mark and other places is describing an event that started before Jesus died on the cross Jesus told them not to go to the gentiles or samaritans in another place and so this was not after the resurrection. Although some principles can apply to all who are sent out for all times. This was an actual event were they went out and cast ou deals etc. We read about this story in Luke as well where Jesus sent men out to cast out devils etc and they cam back and rejoiced that the devils were subject unto them and jesus said don't rejoice in this but that their names were written in the Lambs bok of life. This shows that they were saved before the cross and yet many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him n John 6:66. This shows that some of those whom were once in the book of life went away and lost salvation.

Very interesting friend. Thanks for sharing.
 
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BNR32FAN

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He died to save mankind from physical death?

He gave us the truth concerning how not to perish. And it includes what man does.

Matthew 5
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Luke 13:3
I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Of course this is only for those who believe Him; those who believe Him from the heart. It is not for those who only give lip service.

Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Brother FaithGrace2 is seeking and knocking. I’m sure he will see and the door will be opened eventually. :)
 
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EmSw

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None of those verses in the OP seem to me to say that Judas was one of the Elect. Judas could very well have been used by Jesus for various purposes without being among those whom the Father gave Him (to paraphrase the Gospel of John on this subject).

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


Judas was given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. His eyes were open to see and his ears open to hear; therefore, he was healed, or forgiven of his sins. Only a believer has his eyes and ears opened. The eyes and ears are closed to those who do not believe.
 
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The Times

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Whatever you mean by that - Jesus committed no unrighteousness

Please listen........

Jesus chose his disciples. Do you know what that means?

The canonical Gospels, Acts, and Epistles urge disciples to be imitators of Jesus Christ or of God himself. Being imitators requires obedience exemplified by moral behavior.

Judas was no exception, for he was a disciple of Jesus.

What did Jesus say about Judas?

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

For one to be lost, he must have been not lost. He was in the hands of Jesus and was afterwards lost, get it?

To be in the hands of the Lord as not lost, highly suggests being on the path towards salvation. Judas as a disciple, would have imitated Jesus Christ. Judas imitation of Jesus requires obedience exemplified by moral behavior.

Judas fell out from that position from the potential saved, to being the condemned and unsaved.

God chose Pharaoh for His purposes and it was not unrighteous of Him to do it.

This is not a true comparison, because Pharoah was not a disciple of Jesus and was not on a path towards salvation, which imitated Jesus Christ, because imitation requires obedience exemplified by moral behavior. Pharoah was not like Judas and was certainly NOT considered by God or His Christ as such.

I have never said that the other disciples were not saved. I believe we'll see them in Heaven now that the work of Christ is done and they are justified so that they can stand in the presence of God with us.

True.

No one in the scriptures was "saved" in the full sense of the word until the work of Christ was done, and they were justified before God.

True.

This is why the beggar in Jesus' story was carried by the angels to Paradise when he died and not into the presence of God as we are.

True.

I've been very clear about what I am saying. That's why I began my critique by asking a question through the statement - define "saved"

It is your right to do so. Well done!

Depending on your answer - we may not have any difference when all is said and done.

Absolutely!
 
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The Times

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The problem with your argument here is the basic premise of your entire argument is flawed

ok, how so?
please provide critique.

Jesus said that He desires that NONE be lost

sure.

Therefore, many are called to faith, but being 'called' does not mean that they have listened or have been saved.

Judas was a disciple. Do you understand what that means?

Be transformed" "Discipleship" and "following Christ" are used synonymously. The canonical Gospels, Acts, and Epistles urge disciples to be imitators of Jesus Christ or of God himself. Being imitators requires obedience exemplified by moral behavior.

Judas was not lost as a disciple. He was in the palm of Christ's hands, but then was lost.

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

If you read Romans, you will see that God is calling all of the world.

Calling is one thing, saving is another. Many are called, yet few are chosen. The guest at the wedding thought he was invited, but was tossed out. So were the foolish virgins.

So you are using this verse entirely out of context.

You cannot make a blanket statement like that. You need to show how, evidence by evidence.

What evidence you need to show to prove your counterclaim, is that Judas was not a disciple and was lost to begin with. In that he never was transformed" into "Discipleship" and did NOT "follow Christ". In addition, you have to prove that Judas did NOT imitate Jesus Christ and was NOT required to comply to obedience exemplified by moral behaviour.

The challenge given to you, is not one that I dare take on!
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said:
"The ONLY THING that man "does" in order to never perish is found in John 10:28a; to receive the gift of eternal life. Period."
Somehow I knew you don't believe all the words Jesus said.
I cited the very words of Jesus, so you've just shown your ignorance of what Jesus said.

Perhaps, 'if you don't likewise repent, you will perish', is only a fairy tale to you.
I understand what 'repent' means. And I believe all the words Jesus said.

I don't cherry pick which verses to believe and which ones to reject, as you've done.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Satan believes. Faith is the criteria for salvation.

Faiths and belief are not the same although we many times use them interchangeably
Romans 4 - 5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”
 
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FreeGrace2

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The following verses refute EmSw and condemn his theology.

The Blood of Christ

Matt 26:28 - This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24 - “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them.

Luke 22:20 - In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Luke 22:19 - And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” {a reference to His death on the cross}

John 6
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

Acts 5:28 - “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”

Evidence that references to the blood of Christ refers to His crucifixion.

Acts 20:28 - Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Rom 3:25 - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Rom 5:9 - Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

1 Cor 10:16 - Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

{this is in reference to Communion}

1 Cor 11:27 - So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. EmSw is guilty of this.

Eph 1:7 - In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace

Eph 2:13 - But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Col 1:20 - and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Heb 9:22 - In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Combined with Heb 10:4 - It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Proving that the OT sacrifices did NOT pay for sins.

This directly refers to EmSw:

Heb 10:29 - How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Heb 12:24 - to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Heb 13:12 - And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Heb 13:20 - Now may the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep,

1 Pet 1:2 - who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Rev 7:14 - I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 12:11 - They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

Rev 14:13 - He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

From previous posts, we know that EmSw has rejected the writings of Paul and the book of Hebrews. But from this list, he now has to reject the words of the apostles John and Peter as well.

Oh, yes, and the words of Jesus, who instituted Communion on the basis of His death on the cross.

So, even Communion is unnecessary according to his unbiblical theology.
 
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Marvin Knox

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He was in the hands of Jesus and was afterwards lost, get it?
Of course I get it. It's pretty clear. What's not to get?
To be in the hands of the Lord as not lost, highly suggests being on the path towards salvation.
Of course it does. Judas was in the presence of Jesus the way, the truth and the life. If he had stuck with it he would have eventually understood Christ's sacrifice and hopefully been saved.
Judas fell out from that position from the potential saved, to being the condemned and unsaved.
Of course he did. But I have been talked about "having been" saved and then losing that salvation - not being "potentially" saved and falling out of the position which would have hopefully lead to salvation.
To be in the hands of the Lord as not lost, highly suggests being on the path towards salvation.
Likely this is our problem.

As an Orthodox subscriber you believe that we are heading toward salvation by "cooperating with God", "becoming deity" and a number of other concepts foreign to Protestant theologians.

We believe a person is saved by truly believing on and confessing Jesus as Lord and availing ourselves of the salvation (justification) which immediately results from those actions. (Assuming of course that the repentance involved and the trust involved are real on the part of the person.)

Works will follow as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling (sanctification).

Such a one is translated out of the Kingdom of this world and into the Kingdom of God where we rule with Him in the Heavenlies as much as our faith allows.

"NOW" I am a child of God and, although it doesn't yet appear what I will eventually be, I know that someday I will be like Him for I will see Him as He actually is.

As an Orthodox subscriber and an evangelical Protestant subscriber - I doubt that we can have any meaningful discussion concerning the idea of possibly losing salvation vs. being eternally secure until those differences are ironed out.

I doubt that we have time to do so here.:)

Marvin Knox said:

I've been very clear about what I am saying. That's why I began my critique by asking a question through the statement - define "saved"

Do you see now why I asked the question?


Any meaningful discussion about the concept of once saved always saved requires that we agree on what it means to be "saved".




 
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LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
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Of course he did. But I have been talked about "having been" saved and then losing that salvation - not being "potentially" saved and falling out of the position which would have hopefully lead to salvation.
Judas was saved as the other 11 were also saved before the cross (yet not without it in time) Jesus died for the sins that are past of the Old Testament saints as well as the ones after the cross. The same salvation is for all.

We know they were saved because Jesus said none of them is lost in John 17 except Judas, who by transgression fell as Acts 1 says.

Jesus at other times called all the 12 his SHEEP and ordained them all and sent them forth to the lost sheep. The expression "lost sheep" and "sheep" shows the difference. To be lost is not to be found. Jesus also said his sheep hear his voice and he KNOWS them and he gives unto them eternal life. To know God and Jesus Christ is eternal life John 17.

Jesus also said unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. He told the disciples that their eyes see but to those that are "without (the kingdom) he spoke in parables, lest they see and be converted. This shows that the apostles were converted and born again and did see. I can post the scriptures for this if you want.

Check my original post for all the scriptures about the sheep etc.

Jesus also asked Peter

"15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

this clearly shows that Peter was saved because we read

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."( 1 John 5:1 KJV)

"15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."( 1 John 4:15 KJV)


Notice that God dwells in them who confess this.

and not just Peter others said this as well here are just a few examples


John 6:69
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."


John 11:27
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."


Jesus sad of the 12 (before the cross)

Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."


there is so much that can be said about this topic of the new birth in the Ot . But that's a stat for now.

the seed of Christ, the word of God quickens men and this is the engrafted word by which they are saved.

Even David said


Psalm 119:50
"This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me."


"23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."(1 Peter 1:23 KJV)

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God and OT saints had faith (Hebrews 11 etc)

and when a person has this faith we read


Ephesians 3:17
"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"



Matthew 6:30
"Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"


Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham."


and

"10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit."(Psalms 51:10-12 KJV)
 
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