Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[LoveofTruth]

Again, Jesus' words allocated for Judas and that he was lost, but that is so scripture would be fulfilled.

John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and guarded them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

So I still don't understand why you do not believe Jesus own words as He speaks to the Father.

it reads

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word....12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."( John 17:6,12 KJV)

Here we see that Jesus is referring to the twelve in both parts. When they were first given to Jesus vs 6 and how they belonged to the Father even before they were given, then at the end none of them (the 12) that were given to Jesus is lost, except Judas. He became lost and fell by transgression. At a certain point in Judas life we read "then Satan entered into him". Judas fell by transgression, he fell from grace, he fell from where he was before as Acts 1 shows. If he was always "fallen", then how can we read that he "fell by transgression" in Acts 1.?

sorry your argument confounds itself.

You seem be desperately trying to hold onto the error of eternal security. We read that "The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you".. Judas forsook Jesus and betrayed the trust he once had.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You seem be desperately trying to hold onto the error of eternal security. We read that "The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you".. Judas forsook Jesus and betrayed the trust he once had.

This thread isn't even about eternal security and Judas and that he was not saved, has no bearing on eternal security for me.

I suggest we stay on topic here and if you'd like to start another thread, start one.

 

[ToBeLoved]

it reads

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word....12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."( John 17:6,12 KJV)

sorry your argument confounds itself.

Do you know what the word "but" means?

Maybe that is why you cannot understand this verse

 

[LoveofTruth]

This thread isn't even about eternal security and Judas and that he was not saved, has no bearing on eternal security for me.

I suggest we stay on topic here and if you'd like to start another thread, start one.

one reason I point out that Judas was once saved and then lost it and had his name blotted out of the book of life is for just that reason, to warn some who have a false eternal security and live in sin and think all is well.

I use the story of Judas to show that a believer can fall from grace and depart from the living God through and evil heart of unbelief. This is my main reason for posting about Judas.So to me this is right on topic.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Do you know what the word "but" means?

Maybe that is why you cannot understand this verse

it is a primary particle of conditionality., forasmuch as, that etc.

The point is that none of them is lost but, or except, Judas. He became lost and fell by transgression as scripture says.

In order to really understand the beginning of Judas and the end, you need to go back to the beginning when Jesus called unto him "HIS" twelve disciples, apostles, and ordain all twelve and sent all twelve out as sheep (all 12 Judas included) to the lost sheep.

I know that many get frustrated when they read Matthew 10 as i have shown them. They usually don't even try to interpret it, they rush off in a frantic search for some remote verse way later when Judas was lost or betraying Jesus. But if you are honest and unbiased you will read clearly that Judas was saved at that time and belonged to jesus as one of "his" apostles. It doesn't say that Jesus called his eleven disciples and one devil. No it says Jesus called unto him "HIS" twelve disciples, who were apostles, sent ones of God, and he ordained the twelve. Ordained mens to be chosen.

Go back to my original post and examine each point clearly and see what the main points are.

 

[ToBeLoved]

it is a primary particle of conditionality., forasmuch as, that etc.

The point is that none of them is lost but, or except, Judas. He became lost and fell by transgression as scripture says.

In order to really understand the beginning of Judas and the end, you need to go back to the beginning when Jesus called unto him "HIS" twelve disciples, apostles, and ordain all twelve and sent all twelve out as sheep (all 12 Judas included) to the lost sheep.

I know that many get frustrated when they read Matthew 10 as i have shown them. They usually don't even try to interpret it, they rush off in a frantic search for some remote verse way later when Judas was lost or betraying Jesus. But if you are honest and unbiased you will read clearly that Judas was saved at that time and belonged to jesus as one of "his" apostles. It doesn't say that Jesus called his eleven disciples and one devil. No it says Jesus called unto him "HIS" twelve disciples, who were apostles, sent ones of God, and he ordained the twelve. Ordained mens to be chosen.

Go back to my original post and examine each point clearly and see what the main points are.

Right, Judas is lost.

Now prove that Judas was ever saved.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Right, Judas is lost.

Now prove that Judas was ever saved.

here we go again

Judas was once saved and then lost his salvation. This understanding defeats once and for all the false doctrine of eternal security or perseverance of the saints as it is taught by many.

1. Judas once belonged to the Father and was given to Jesus. Jesus said this when he was speaking of the twelve apostles in John 17,

“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest [past tense] them me;...” John 17:6


“Thine they were”, past tense, Judas was included in that.


2. Jesus called Judas one of “HIS” twelve disciples as we read;


Matthew 10:1
“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples”

Notice first, that all twelves of the disciples were “HIS”. They all belonged to Jesus, and none of them belonged to the devil at this time. Matthew did not lie when he wrote this, Nor was Jesus ignorant of who were HIS apostles. They were all HIS, (Judas included).


3. Jesus gave all HIS twelve disciples power, Judas included,

“he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Matthew 10:1

Here we see that all twelve of the apostles, (Judas included), were given power. And this power included casting out devils. This shows that Judas was not a devil at this time, for Satan cannot cast out Satan, as Jesus told us. And Judas had power to heal as well.


4. Judas was an apostle,

“Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,...and Judas Iscariot, ...” Matthew 10:2-4

An apostle is a sent one of God and a high calling. This is a gift from God to believers. Notice that all TWELVE were called apostles including Judas, not just the other eleven.


5. Judas was sent forth and ordained,


Matthew 10:5
“These twelve Jesus sent forth,...”


“And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,” Mark 3:14


Jesus sent all twelve of them forth to preach, Judas included. Jesus also equipped all of them to preach, Judas included. He “ORDAINED” them also, Judas included. To be ordained means that he recognized all of them and approved of them, Judas included.


6. Judas freely received and could cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse lepers, raise the dead, so he could also freely give as well.

“And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.” Matthew 10:7,8

This shows that he was a partaker of this ministry, obtaining part of the ministry like the others. To obtain means he was able to minister.


“...concerning Judas ...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. “ Acts 1:17

To obtain part of the ministry you must minister, and the ministry Judas had was spoken of in Matthew 10 and Mark 3.


7. Jesus called Judas one of his sheep! THIS IS A BIG POINT!!

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” Matthew 10:16

This was spoken to the twelve apostles, and Judas was one of the twelve sent as a sheep to the lost sheep. This shows that Judas was saved and had eternal life at this time, because he was a sheep of Jesus. And if he was lost, how could he help the lost sheep? Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and they know him. Judas was as a sheep amidst wolves, showing that Judas wasn't a wolf then.

“ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” John 10:27,28

Judas heard his voice and followed him and was a sheep as Jesus said, and so he had eternal life at the beginning of his ministry. Only the biased reader would ignore this


8. Judas had the peace of God to give to others, this was spoken to the twelve, Judas included,

“...let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.” Matthew 10:13


9. He also had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him, spoken to the twelve Judas included,

“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” Matthew 10:20

10. Judas belonged to the household of Jesus, as we read here spoken to the twelve Judas included.

“them of his household?” Matthew 10:25


11. Judas also was a familiar friend of Jesus once and was trusted by Jesus,

“ Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.” Psalms 41:9

Jesus told us that Psalm 41:9 was referring to Judas going against him,

“...but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.’ John 13:8

This proves that Judas was not always a devil or thief as some say. He was once trusted and a familiar friend of Jesus.

Jesus does not call devils familiar friends, and he does not trust them.


12. He was blotted out of the book of life. In Acts 1 we read,

“concerning Judas...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.... For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Acts 1:16-20

The Psalm mentioned here, refers to Judas,

“Let their habitation be desolate... Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” Psalms 69:25,28

He was once in the book of life with the righteous and then blotted out. So he was once saved and had eternal life then lost it.


13. He fell by transgression, showing that he was not always fallen. But rather that he fell at a certain point in time. And he fell by transgression, it was his own will and choice.

“That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell “ Acts 1:25


14. He betrayed Jesus at a certain point in time,

“Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.” “Matthew 26:48


To “betray”, means to once have the trust and to go against that trust, as Judas did. He could not have betrayed that trust if he was always a devil. Because Jesus doesn’t trust devils.

Near the end of Jesus ministry he said Judas was a devil, but this he spoke of Judas who should betray him, future tense. We read about this near the end of Jesus ministry in John 6:71. And “then Satan entered into him.” Luke 22:3, this , was at the end of Jesus ministry not at the beginning as we saw already.

So Judas fell away and lost his salvation.


so to sum up just some of the points

1. Judas Belonged to the Father before given to Jesus
2. Judas was a disciple of Jesus at the beginning
3. Judas was an apostle
4. Judas was a a sheep sent to the lost sheep
5. Judas was given power to cast out devils, raise the dead heal the sick ( and satan cannot cast put Satan as jesus said)
6. Judas had the peace of God to give
7. Judas was a familiar friend of Jesus whom he once trusted
8. Judas had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him when needed
9. Judas was written in the book of life once
10. Judas fell by transgression, and was blotted out

This event in Matthew and Mark and other places is describing an event that started before Jesus died on the cross Jesus told them not to go to the gentiles or samaritans in another place and so this was not after the resurrection. Although some principles can apply to all who are sent out for all times. This was an actual event were they went out and cast ou deals etc. We read about this story in Luke as well where Jesus sent men out to cast out devils etc and they cam back and rejoiced that the devils were subject unto them and jesus said don't rejoice in this but that their names were written in the Lambs bok of life. This shows that they were saved before the cross and yet many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him n John 6:66. This shows that some of those whom were once in the book of life went away and lost salvation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Exactly, Matthias was after being chosen by lot, numbered among the 12.
And all the church would have then associated Matthias with the 12, as would Paul writing later.
v21 qualifies that the man must have been one of the long term disciples, Jesus had more than 12 disciples. To be numbered with the eleven means Matthias now makes up the 12.

Acts 1
21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

John 13 gives us good clue in on whom Christ had chosen when He says,
18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ Christ already knew Matthias would be chosen to replace Judas when He picked out the original 12.
Christ did not speak concerning Judas about having a part in Him, Judas was excluded from having a part in Christ as Judas was of an UNCLEAN spirit being a devil. And no unclean person has any inheritance with Christ, they are cut off. To be acceptable to God we must be born of God, made clean within. Judas was unclean so had never been born of God. Judas had no salvation to lose since Judas was never saved.

Leviticus 7:21
Moreover the person who touches any unclean thing, such as human uncleanness, an unclean animal, or any abominable unclean thing, and who eats the flesh of the sacrifice of the peace offering that belongs to the Lord, that person shall be cut off from his people.’”


John 13
7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”

8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”

Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”

10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

12 So when He had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? 13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. 14 If I then, yourLord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. 16 Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.

Jesus Identifies His Betrayer
18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ 19 Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He. 20 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”

21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.” 22 Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke.

Totally in error about Matthias being one of the original 12

If you read Matthew 10 you will see that the 12 who were mentioned were named

And Judas was named among the twelve.

You tried hard there to twist things into your doctrine but scripture rebukes you and any who would try to teach once saved always saved error.

Consider and repent

Matthew 10 - 1. And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3. Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, ...”

 

[ToBeLoved]

here we go again

Judas was once saved and then lost his salvation. This understanding defeats once and for all the false doctrine of eternal security or perseverance of the saints as it is taught by many.

1. Judas once belonged to the Father and was given to Jesus. Jesus said this when he was speaking of the twelve apostles in John 17,

“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest [past tense] them me;...” John 17:6


“Thine they were”, past tense, Judas was included in that.


2. Jesus called Judas one of “HIS” twelve disciples as we read;


Matthew 10:1
“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples”

Notice first, that all twelves of the disciples were “HIS”. They all belonged to Jesus, and none of them belonged to the devil at this time. Matthew did not lie when he wrote this, Nor was Jesus ignorant of who were HIS apostles. They were all HIS, (Judas included).


3. Jesus gave all HIS twelve disciples power, Judas included,

“he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Matthew 10:1

Here we see that all twelve of the apostles, (Judas included), were given power. And this power included casting out devils. This shows that Judas was not a devil at this time, for Satan cannot cast out Satan, as Jesus told us. And Judas had power to heal as well.


4. Judas was an apostle,

“Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,...and Judas Iscariot, ...” Matthew 10:2-4

An apostle is a sent one of God and a high calling. This is a gift from God to believers. Notice that all TWELVE were called apostles including Judas, not just the other eleven.


5. Judas was sent forth and ordained,


Matthew 10:5
“These twelve Jesus sent forth,...”


“And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,” Mark 3:14


Jesus sent all twelve of them forth to preach, Judas included. Jesus also equipped all of them to preach, Judas included. He “ORDAINED” them also, Judas included. To be ordained means that he recognized all of them and approved of them, Judas included.


6. Judas freely received and could cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse lepers, raise the dead, so he could also freely give as well.

“And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.” Matthew 10:7,8

This shows that he was a partaker of this ministry, obtaining part of the ministry like the others. To obtain means he was able to minister.


“...concerning Judas ...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. “ Acts 1:17

To obtain part of the ministry you must minister, and the ministry Judas had was spoken of in Matthew 10 and Mark 3.


7. Jesus called Judas one of his sheep! THIS IS A BIG POINT!!

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” Matthew 10:16

This was spoken to the twelve apostles, and Judas was one of the twelve sent as a sheep to the lost sheep. This shows that Judas was saved and had eternal life at this time, because he was a sheep of Jesus. And if he was lost, how could he help the lost sheep? Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and they know him. Judas was as a sheep amidst wolves, showing that Judas wasn't a wolf then.

“ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” John 10:27,28

Judas heard his voice and followed him and was a sheep as Jesus said, and so he had eternal life at the beginning of his ministry. Only the biased reader would ignore this


8. Judas had the peace of God to give to others, this was spoken to the twelve, Judas included,

“...let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.” Matthew 10:13


9. He also had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him, spoken to the twelve Judas included,

“For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” Matthew 10:20

10. Judas belonged to the household of Jesus, as we read here spoken to the twelve Judas included.

“them of his household?” Matthew 10:25


11. Judas also was a familiar friend of Jesus once and was trusted by Jesus,

“ Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.” Psalms 41:9

Jesus told us that Psalm 41:9 was referring to Judas going against him,

“...but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.’ John 13:8

This proves that Judas was not always a devil or thief as some say. He was once trusted and a familiar friend of Jesus.

Jesus does not call devils familiar friends, and he does not trust them.


12. He was blotted out of the book of life. In Acts 1 we read,

“concerning Judas...For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.... For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Acts 1:16-20

The Psalm mentioned here, refers to Judas,

“Let their habitation be desolate... Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” Psalms 69:25,28

He was once in the book of life with the righteous and then blotted out. So he was once saved and had eternal life then lost it.


13. He fell by transgression, showing that he was not always fallen. But rather that he fell at a certain point in time. And he fell by transgression, it was his own will and choice.

“That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell “ Acts 1:25


14. He betrayed Jesus at a certain point in time,

“Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.” “Matthew 26:48


To “betray”, means to once have the trust and to go against that trust, as Judas did. He could not have betrayed that trust if he was always a devil. Because Jesus doesn’t trust devils.

Near the end of Jesus ministry he said Judas was a devil, but this he spoke of Judas who should betray him, future tense. We read about this near the end of Jesus ministry in John 6:71. And “then Satan entered into him.” Luke 22:3, this , was at the end of Jesus ministry not at the beginning as we saw already.

So Judas fell away and lost his salvation.


so to sum up just some of the points

1. Judas Belonged to the Father before given to Jesus
2. Judas was a disciple of Jesus at the beginning
3. Judas was an apostle
4. Judas was a a sheep sent to the lost sheep
5. Judas was given power to cast out devils, raise the dead heal the sick ( and satan cannot cast put Satan as jesus said)
6. Judas had the peace of God to give
7. Judas was a familiar friend of Jesus whom he once trusted
8. Judas had the Spirit of the Father speaking in him when needed
9. Judas was written in the book of life once
10. Judas fell by transgression, and was blotted out

This event in Matthew and Mark and other places is describing an event that started before Jesus died on the cross Jesus told them not to go to the gentiles or samaritans in another place and so this was not after the resurrection. Although some principles can apply to all who are sent out for all times. This was an actual event were they went out and cast ou deals etc. We read about this story in Luke as well where Jesus sent men out to cast out devils etc and they cam back and rejoiced that the devils were subject unto them and jesus said don't rejoice in this but that their names were written in the Lambs bok of life. This shows that they were saved before the cross and yet many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him n John 6:66. This shows that some of those whom were once in the book of life went away and lost salvation.

I was realy looking forward to reading the response, but my eyes cannot do that much red and blue bold.

 

[Doug Melven]

I do not believe the OP made as convincing an argument as he thought he did.
Judas was appointed to a ministry, not salvation.
Jesus did trust Judas, Judas had the money bag. I don't believe Judas ever trusted Jesus, but that is my opinion.

The OP could have used different Scriptures like Hebrews 3 and 6.
3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I don't think just anyone can lose there salvation.
I do believe a mature Christian can reject there salvation.
Just like a child who rejects there parents will not actually be able to leave without the parents consent.
But an adult is a different story.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Judas I. did not lose anything never had.

Show an example by name of any truly saved believer who lost his salvation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Judas I. did not lose anything never had.

Show an example by name of any truly saved believer who lost his salvation.

Colossians 4:14 KJV
"Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you."

Philemon 1:24 KJV
"Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellow labourers."

2 Timothy 4:10 KJV
"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world"

1 John 2:15 KJV
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

aslo we read of some believers in Galatians Paul said


Galatians 1:6,8 KJV
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace ofChrist unto another gospel:..let him be accursed"

"
Galatians 5:4 KJV
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

we could also speak of the angels that sinned and were cast down into hell and eventually the lake of fire. They did not abide in the truth.

we can also speak of these verses

1 Timothy 4:1
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart fromthe faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

and

Acts 5:3,4 KJV
"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

and we could mention Judas and others.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Mark 3 (NASB) ...The Original TWELVE are CHOSEN

(NOT commissioned to go forth as evangelistic "apostles"/"messengers"/"disciples" by Jesus AFTER His resurrection")

In Matthew 10 these twelve that belonged to Jesus and were "HIS". He sent out and ordained and said not to go the way of the gentiles. This was before His death and resurrection they were sent out.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Judas I. did not lose anything never had.

Show an example by name of any truly saved believer who lost his salvation.

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas became lost, but in the beginning he was chosen and a sheep sent to the "lost sheep". Jesus doesn't send Satan to cast out satan, or a lost man to help another lost man. Jesus sent all of them out as sheep (judas included) in the midst of wolves and to the LOST sheep.

I know this scriptural understanding shatters some views taught by many who have been very bold and tried to teach their doctrines and "once saved always saved" and many trust their exalted pastors over them who tell them we are once saved always saved etc. But we must never put man above that which is written in holy scripture. Or some they hear the famous radio preachers assure them they can never be lost. But all I can say to all this mess out there, is come out from among them and simply believe the scriptures of truth.

 

[LoveofTruth]

One thing I have not noticed in any of the Gospel accounts. That one time ever did Judas actually proclaim any belief that Jesus was the promised Messiah or that He was the Son of God.

speaking for all 12 we read

"Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we [referring to the 12] go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we [referring to the 12] believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve,..."(John 6:67-70 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Now, your assignment it to determine what the will of the Father is in that passage. Here is a hint:

John 6:40 (NKJV) And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And Jesus said,

John 10:27 28 KJV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

and consider this verse spoken to the twelve Judas included. I can almost hear some say "arghhh why did Jesus say that, man, that looks very clear as if Judas was once saved and then lost it and so a believer can lose salvation).

But consider, this section spoken to the twelve apostles, sent ones, ordained and empowered to cast out devils raise the dead etc.

Matthew 10:5, 6, 16 KJV
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise asserpents, and harmless as doves."

let scripture speak clearly and simply believe it. Let all the crank doctrines of men fall to the ground. Shake everything that can be shaken so that all we see is that glorious image of Christ

Bring in any of the big radio preachers into here for discussion and lets examine their doctrine. I would be willing to discuss with Charles Stanley, or John McArthur etc

 

[LoveofTruth]

Jesus did not appoint Judas I. an "apostle" / disciple / or anything else at the Great Commission. He appointed only the remaining 11. SEE: Matthew 28: end.

Absolutely false as scripture says, consider

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel... Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:"(Matthew 10:1-6,16 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

We don't actually know from scripture that Judas personally did any of those things.

We do read that Judas was successful and it is said of him

" For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry....25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

so he had obtained or received part of that power and ministry as Matthew 10 shows. He was also given that power to cast out devils.

How can Judas fall by transgression if he was always in transgression?

How can he be called an apostle by Jesus and others if he was always fallen.

Jesus also sent the twelve out and with 70 more and said the same thing to the seventy he said to the twelve

"Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves...
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
"(Luke 10:3,17-20 KJV)

Judas was also written in heaven and blotted out as Acts 1 and Psalms 69 imply.

 

[RDKirk]

We do read that Judas was successful and it is said of him

" For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry....25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

so he had obtained or received part of that power and ministry as Matthew 10 shows. He was also given that power to cast out devils.

How can Judas fall by transgression if he was always in transgression?

How can he be called an apostle by Jesus and others if he was always fallen.

Jesus also sent the twelve out and with 70 more and said the same thing to the seventy he said to the twelve

"Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves...
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
"(Luke 10:3,17-20 KJV)

Judas was also written in heaven and blotted out as Acts 1 and Psalms 69 imply.

So where do you want to go with that? What are you going to preach?

 

[LoveofTruth]

So where do you want to go with that? What are you going to preach?

I would say to those who believe to abide in Christ and you sin not, take heed love not the world and do not become hardened through the deceitful ness of sin and depart from the living God. Let him that thinketh he stand take heed lest he fall. I would say guard your heart and beware the devil roams about seeking whom he may devour. Draw nigh unto God at all times, pray and watch unto prayer. War a good warfare and walk in the Spirit.

etc

and I could add all the warnings in the new testament about falling away and listening to devil doctrines and false preachers and the world the flesh and the devil etc. But so many of the writers in the New testament said so much about this already'

I preach the gospel and Christ and him crucified and that we must also pick up our cross and follow him as he said