Did Jesus Make Alcoholic Wine?

[Bible Highlighter]

So is eating meat harmful because it’s full of bacteria
So is breathing air harmful because it’s full of pollution
So is drinking water harmful because is full of fluoride
So is sleeping to much
So is working too much
So is laughing, crying, running, thrill seeking
Guess what bro, if you wrapped yourself up in a bubble your still going to die. My point is, that everything around us is bad for us or is it?? No matter if you live and eat perfectly, you will still age, deteriorate, die and rot away
This world is rotting because of sin

Wine is good for you in moderation. So is eating a big fat juicy steak, a greasy burger. That’s why we are told to be joyful at heart, enjoy everything and give thanks to God for everything be it food, wine, etc.
Even if you never touched wine, your liver could fail
If you never smoked, you could get lung cancer,
If you eat healthy, you could be a healthy diabetic
If you excercise daily, you could die of heart disease

Ever wonder why people who were fit and healthy die young of natural causes and someone who smokes 60 a day and drinks 7 days a week lives to be 104 years old??

Everything in this world is cursed with death. So put a piece of meat out without alcohol and watch it. It will still dry up, rot away

Meat, air, water, sleep, work, etc. is not the same as alcoholic beverages. Alcoholic beverages is something that your body has to work at fighting off. Your body cannot absorb alcohol and so it seeks to get rid of it. It is technically a mild poison but our body has an immune system or a repair system. Meat, air, water, and sleep are things that your body needs. Work is healthy for a person, as well. But alcohol is not like those other essential things. You need water, food, air, and sleep to live. You don't need alcoholic beverages to live.

If you ate right and exercised your whole life and lived in a healthy environment, chances are less likely for you to get certain diseases. Sure, it is not impossible, but if you indulge in alcoholic beverages that seek to harm you, your chances at risk are greater to getting certain medical problems. Yes, can people live to be really old and drink and smoke? Yes, but it is not the norm. A person would have to have really good genetics and they would have to be eating lots of nutritious things to counteract the effects of alcohol and smoking. They also could not smoke and drink in excess, either. If they smoked or drank a lot there is no way they will live very long in life. The human body can only take so much punishment.

 

[Radagast]

Besides, the KJV has proven itself to be divine in origin. Biblical Numerics is just one of the ways that shows us this.

Crazy talk.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Crazy talk.

Numbers exist in your Bible for a reason. They are not there by accident. Take for example the number 40. Noah was in the ark while it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. Noah was kind like undergoing a trial in the storm within the Ark. Jesus fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. This was a trial for Jesus. So the number 40 is associated with a trial. So there is a meaning tied with certain numbers in the Bible. Pastor Mike shows you more in-depth Biblical numerics that would blow your mind.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And I would say you attack it because you fear it.

It is better to raise your kids teaching them to drink responsibly then building it up as some kind of forbidden fruit their whole life leading to them trying it at a more venerable time of life.

If I tell my kids that drinking gasoline is bad for them because it is a poison, chances are they are not going to drink it. If I educate my child on how alcohol is technically a mild poison, and tell them about the dangers of alcohol, and how it does not have any nutritional value, and how it destroys lives, and how the Bible warns against it, then they will think twice before partaking in it to begin with. For if they think drinking is okay, they may want to drink more because it is an addictive drug. Oh, and it is a drug and not a food. All calories from alcoholic beverages are empty calories.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God created grapes. God created the yeasts that turn grape juice into wine.

There are deadly toxins and poisons that are part of the creation. That does not mean that you should ingest them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So, what do each of the verses in THE REST of the same chapter mean, then? Would you care to do a verse by verse exposition about how all of what Paul states there connects together?

I want to thank you. I was looking more at Romans 14 and reading an article, and I am now actually being more conservative now on this issue. I believe the word "wine" is either in reference to grape juice (unfermented wine) or it is in reference to Israelite wine (that is a fermented wine that is diluted with 3 parts of water - whereby it is low in alcoholic content). I used to be an Abstentionist, and now I believe I am a Prohibitionist (with the exception of alcohol drink used only for medical reasons).

Anyways, I believe the word "wine" is not in reference to the alcoholic wines of today because the Bible warns us to be sober many times (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

A person like myself can drink just one white Russian and not be sober minded. How would I know my limit in being a light weight? Do I experiment to find out?

Romans 13:13-14 says, "Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

Romans 15:1 says, "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves."

So it is about self denial and not pleasing ourselves. I believe this liberty is regards to "wine" is in reference to either grape juice or Israelite wine (which was low in alcoholic content). For strong alcoholic wine can make a person not sober minded even with one glass. So strong alcoholic wine (or other strong alcoholic drinks) is not among the liberties Paul is talking about here in Romans 14.

 

[woobadooba]

I have every right to push what the Bible says about alcohol upon others. We are to preach and correct others according to the Word of God (See 2 Timothy 4:2).

Scripture commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV).

In John 2, it says that the wedding guests were "well drunk". So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18).

Think about this. If the wedding guests at Cana were "well drunk" and Jesus made even more intoxicating wine, then they would definitely no longer be "sober minded" but they would be drunk or intoxicated. Yet, the Bible condemns being drunk.

Have I denied that the Bible speaks against drunkenness? I agree with the Bible. But there is a difference between consuming a drink containing alcohol and being a drunk. If you don't know the difference, then you aren't qualified to teach on this subject.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have I denied that the Bible speaks against drunkenness? I agree with the Bible. But there is a difference between consuming a drink containing alcohol and being a drunk. If you don't know the difference, then you aren't qualified to teach on this subject.

So are you sober on the road with 1 drink if impairment of your judgment begins? The Bible tells us to be sober minded many times. Are you sober minded if you have impaired judgment?


Source:
Blood Alcohol Chart For Estimation

 

[Radagast]

So are you sober on the road with 1 drink if impairment of your judgment begins?

People are generally safe to drive up to a 0.05% level. For the average man, that's 2 Australian standard drinks in the first hour and then 1 per hour after that (Australian standard drinks are smaller than American ones).

Titus 2:6 speaks of men being "self-controlled." The self-controlled man who is over 0.05% gets a ride with a friend, or takes a taxi home. I'm pretty sure the wedding guests at Cana were all over 0.05%.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

People are generally safe to drive up to a 0.05% level. For the average man, that's 2 Australian standard drinks in the first hour and then 1 per hour after that (Australian standard drinks are smaller than American ones).

Titus 2:6 speaks of men being "self-controlled." The self-controlled man who is over 0.05% gets a ride with a friend, or takes a taxi home. I'm pretty sure the wedding guests at Cana were all over 0.05%.

I believe the chart and not you. Also, logic dictates that you are not as sober as you were before when you did not drink. Also, self control is tied to being sober. I can start to drink a White Russian and feel a little out of self control.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

According to a recent study, even a single drink of alcohol is enough to impair someone’s ability to reason quickly and detect errors. Volunteers in the study were given drinks and then given a computer test that required quick thinking and instinctive reasoning. Even after a single drink, changes in brain action were quickly detected. The dosages were based on the weight of the test subjects. For instance, a 180-pound man would be given 1.2 ounces of alcohol for a low-dose test, resulting in the equivalent of about a 0.04 blood alcohol level, 0.01 below the legal limit for drivers under 21 years of age. The beers were consumed over a 20-minute period. The lead author on the study was K. Richard Ridderinkhof of the University of Amsterdam. Ridderinkhof created a test where volunteers were challenged to ignore distracting arrows and to push buttons for either left or right to correctly indicate the direction of the target. In the controlled study, the volunteers experienced an error rate of about 4.8 percent, but after the first drink, the error rose to 19.8 percent. 1.2 ounces of alcohol, the low dose given to 180-pound men in the study, can be reached by consuming only two 12 ounce beers of 5 percent alcohol content. In a 120-pound female, that would mean a 0.08 BAC, the legal limit for drivers 21 years and older. While the findings of the study are not groundbreaking, the error rates between the drinkers and non-drinkers are startling. “I think people get lulled into thinking that it’s safe to drink X amount of drinks without getting drunk, but each individual is different, and I think people need to be aware of their own limits,” said UCPD spokeswoman Nancy Greenstein. The study also measured brain waves and found that small doses of alcohol quickly affect the anterior cingulate cortex, the part of the brain which influences thinking processes and unconscious detection of error. On the road, this translates into drunk driving accidents.

Source:
Just one drink can slow reaction time

 

[Bible Highlighter]

According to a recent study, even a single drink of alcohol is enough to impair someone’s ability to reason quickly and
detect errors. Volunteers in the study were given drinks and then given a computer test that required quick thinking and instinctive
reasoning. Even after a single drink, changes in brain action were quickly detected. The dosages were based on the weight of the test
subjects. For instance, a 180-pound man would be given 1.2 ounces of alcohol for a low-dose test, resulting in the equivalent of
about a 0.04 blood alcohol level, 0.01 below the legal limit for drivers under 21 years of age. The beers were consumed over a
20-minute period. The lead author on the study was K. Richard
Ridderinkhof of the University of Amsterdam. Ridderinkhof created a test where volunteers were challenged to ignore distracting arrows
and to push buttons for either left or right to correctly indicate the direction of the target. In the controlled study, the volunteers experienced an error rate of about 4.8 percent, but after the first drink, the error rose to 19.8 percent. 1.2 ounces of alcohol, the low dose given to 180-pound men in the study, can be reached by consuming only two 12 ounce beers of 5 percent alcohol content. In a 120-pound female, that would mean a 0.08 BAC, the legal limit for drivers 21 years and older. While the findings of the study are not groundbreaking, the error rates between the drinkers and non-drinkers are startling. “I think people get lulled into thinking that it’s safe to drink X amount of drinks without getting drunk, but each individual is different, and I think people need to be aware of their own limits,” said UCPD spokeswoman Nancy Greenstein. The study also measured brain
waves and found that small doses of alcohol quickly affect the anterior cingulate cortex, the part of the brain which influences thinking processes and unconscious detection of error. On the road, this translates into drunk driving accidents.

Source:
Just one drink can slow reaction time

So according to this study (with just one drink), does a person have less self control or are they less sober than when they did not drink? The answer is "yes." They have less self control and they are less sober after one drink. Logic should naturally tell a person this but if they need a scientific study proving it, then here it is.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Non-alcoholic wine does not exist, since wine is created by the process of fermentation, and alcohol is produced during fermentation.

 

[woobadooba]

The Bible tells us to be sober minded many times. Are you sober minded if you have impaired judgment?

Your question is irrelevant to me. I don't drink alcohol. I gave it up in 1996. The reason why I am even bothering to address you on this subject is because you are misleading others to believe alcohol consumption, no matter what the amount or for what purpose, is sin.

What do you say about the instruction that was given in the Law to use tithe money to purchase strong drink if the people so desired it (see Deuteronomy 14:26). Would you say we should rip that portion out of the Scriptures because it encourages people to commit sin? And if it were a sin to consume alcohol, then why instruct the people to purchase it if they so desired? To accept your strong position on this subject, one must disagree with the Bible. Are you suggesting you are more inspired than Moses who instructed the Israelites to use tithe money to purchase either "wine or strong drink" as they desired?

Regarding the word "sober": Words have different meanings depending on the context in which they are used. For example, people used to say "tempt" when they really meant "to test". Meanings of words can change over time. When you see the word "sober" in the Bible, it doesn't necessarily mean it is referring to abstaining from alcohol. The expression "sober minded" is best understood as: be watchful, discreet, maintain self-control. That could apply to anything. Not just alcohol. And one could consume alcohol and maintain self-control. It may seem impossible to you, but people do it every day.

The Bible warns people against being drunkards. It does not say alcohol consumption is sin. Do you also think cancer patients who use THC to treat their pain are sinning against God and on their way to hell? Are people also guilty of sin if they use medication which causes drowsiness?

A person who is caught up in fanaticism will stop at nothing to make a point. Such people do not think rationally. I am afraid that's where you are on this subject.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your question is irrelevant to me. I don't drink alcohol. I gave it up in 1996. The reason why I am even bothering to address you on this subject is because you are misleading others to believe alcohol consumption, no matter what the amount or for what purpose, is sin.

For social reasons.... "yes." For medical reasons.... "no."
Scripture is clear that we are to be sober minded many times.
I know that I am not sober minded even after one drink.
Even a recent study shows that people are not 100% sober (or in 100% self control) when they drive after one drink.

I am kind of busy today. So I will have to get back to the rest of what you had wrote later.

May God bless you;
And may you have only a desire for the Lord and His good ways this fine day.

 

[☦Marius☦]

For social reasons.... "yes." For medical reasons.... "no."
Scripture is clear that we are to be sober minded many times.
I know that I am not sober minded even after one drink.
Even a recent study shows that people are not 100% sober (or in 100% self control) when they drive after one drink.

I am kind of busy today. So I will have to get back to the rest of what you had wrote later.

May God bless you;
And may you have only a desire for the Lord and His good ways this fine day.

Soberness of mind is seriousness of thought. For like the 5th time it has nothing to do with chemical soberness. I can drink and be completely contemplative, that is soberness of mind.

Do you talk too much?
Laugh too much?
Joke too much?
Do you ignore serious issues?

If you answered yes too these then you are not keeping soberness of mind.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Numbers exist in your Bible for a reason. They are not there by accident. Take for example the number 40. Noah was in the ark while it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. Noah was kind like undergoing a trial in the storm within the Ark. Jesus fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. This was a trial for Jesus. So the number 40 is associated with a trial. So there is a meaning tied with certain numbers in the Bible. Pastor Mike shows you more in-depth Biblical numerics that would blow your mind.

That is occult level analysis of sacred numbers, and has no place within actual discussion.

 

[☦Marius☦]

For social reasons.... "yes." For medical reasons.... "no."
Scripture is clear that we are to be sober minded many times.
I know that I am not sober minded even after one drink.
Even a recent study shows that people are not 100% sober (or in 100% self control) when they drive after one drink.

I am kind of busy today. So I will have to get back to the rest of what you had wrote later.

May God bless you;
And may you have only a desire for the Lord and His good ways this fine day.

So you admit that for medical reasons wine is beneficial? Didn't you just spend like 10 comments telling us there was no benefit to drinking alcohol? You have to pick a side. It's either medically beneficial or not. I started drinking to help maintain a healthy weight. Those "empty" calories you talk about are beneficial to some people. Honey Mean is what made the vikings so healthy the honey naturally boosted their immune system, and the alcohol kept harmful foreign bodies from living in the stomach.

 

[JackRT]

That is occult level analysis of sacred numbers, and has no place within actual discussion.

I agree. There is no such thing as "sacred numbers" although some might be used symbolically.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Soberness of mind is seriousness of thought. For like the 5th time it has nothing to do with chemical soberness. I can drink and be completely contemplative, that is soberness of mind.

Do you talk too much?
Laugh too much?
Joke too much?
Do you ignore serious issues?

If you answered yes too these then you are not keeping soberness of mind.

One cannot have seriousness of thought as good as they would if they were sober. Alcohol affects the brain and causes a person not to react and or think as well.