Did Jesus Make Alcoholic Wine?

☦Marius☦

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Exodus simply says.... Do not kill. Yet, God told them to kill their enemies. They are merely following God's commands. If God says stop. Then we stop. If he says go, then we go. But at the heart what makes one different than the other? Not really much at all. It is merely God giving us His approval to carry out judgment. Whereas taking life without His approval is wrong. Well, at least in the OT. At the core, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was about taking life. At the core, destroying God's enemies was also about taking life. Coming up with fancy words and saying it is entirely different because we slapped the label called murder upon it does not really change it. One is okay because it is under God's approval. The other is not okay because it is not under God's approval. But at the core, both commands are about taking life. One is approved, the other is not.

That's literally what I just said, but you fail to explain how that is the same as the alcohol question.
 
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The video you linked has the words "sacred numbers" in the title.

I don't agree with everything Mike teaches or says. But that does not stop me from recognizing the facts that he presents in God's Word. He will give you information in God's Word. It is up to you to decide what you want to do with that information. But it sounds like you associate anything even remotely to do with numbers as being bad.

The number 7 means "rest" or "completion." The Saturday Sabbath is a day of rest. The number 7 appears hundreds of times (more so) in Revelation than any other book in the Bible. It is the final end. A completion to it all. It is about the bringing in of our rest. But you can ignore all that.
 
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That's literally what I just said, but you fail to explain how that is the same as the alcohol question.

There is a fine line between "Do not kill" (without God's approval) vs. "Kill these particular enemies." Both commands are based on the taking of life. That is what I am getting at. The only difference is that God approves of one and disapproves of the other.

As for the alcohol question: I do not have a photographic memory. You are going to have to refresh my memory on that one please.

Thank you;
And may God bless you today.
 
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☦Marius☦

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I don't agree with everything Mike teaches or says. But that does not stop me from recognizing the facts that he presents in God's Word. He will give you information in God's Word. It is up to you to decide what you want to do with that information. But it sounds like you associate anything even remotely to do with numbers as being bad.

The number 7 means "rest" or "completion." The Saturday Sabbath is a day of rest. The number 7 appears hundreds of times (more so) in Revelation than any other book in the Bible. It is the final end. A completion to it all. It is about the bringing in of our rest. But you can ignore that.

If you don't agree with it, then why would you link it and tell me to watch it as it presents facts. Something is either true or its not. So basically what you are saying is "hey, here is some dangerous information that I don't follow but believe to be true, and even though I think its wrong I am going to present it to others for the sake of winning an argument".

I didn't say numbers were bad. In fact I said the Bible recommends learning math (the wisdom of numbers). There is a difference between math, and claiming a number to be holy, or try to define what it means. Yes certain numbers reoccur in the Bible. Do we know why? No. Is it our job to? No.
 
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☦Marius☦

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There is a fine line between "Do not kill" (without God's approval) vs. "Kill these particular enemies." Both commands are based on the taking of life. That is what I am getting at. The only difference is that God approves of one and disapproves of the other.

As for the alcohol question: I do not have a photographic memory. You are going to have to refresh my memory on that one please.

Thank you;
And may God bless you today.

I don't see any further point to continuing this discussion. Its gone far beyond being fruitful.
 
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If you don't agree with it, then why would you link it and tell me to watch it as it presents facts. Something is either true or its not. So basically what you are saying is "hey, here is some dangerous information that I don't follow but believe to be true, and even though I think its wrong I am going to present it to others for the sake of winning an argument".

I don't necessarily think saying "sacred numbers" is really bad or anything (See my explanation below within this post). In fact, sometimes the devil seeks to pervert the right ways of God. In either case, he presents facts in Scripture in regards to Biblical Numerics. He shows you facts about numbers in the Bible.

You said:
I didn't say numbers were bad. In fact I said the Bible recommends learning math (the wisdom of numbers). There is a difference between math, and claiming a number to be holy, or try to define what it means. Yes certain numbers reoccur in the Bible. Do we know why? No. Is it our job to? No.

The Bible says count numbers as a part of wisdom. You apparently do not agree with that part of the Bible because of your bad experience with numbers. The numbers that appear in the Bible are arranged there by God. Everything God does is holy and good and perfect. The Bible is called the Holy Bible. Everything in the Bible was written under the inspiration of God. Every dot and tittle is there by God's design. That is what I believe Mike is saying in regards to the numbers being sacred. They are there by God's holy design. Mike does not tell you to use these numbers to make life choices in the video or to pray using numbers. He merely points out the awesomeness of God's Word. Do you not see the Bible as being the Holy Bible?

In fact, God even says to Moses that he was standing on holy ground! So Moses had to take off his footware.
 
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I don't see any further point to continuing this discussion. Its gone far beyond being fruitful.

May the Lord's love shine upon you today.
 
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☦Marius☦

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I don't necessarily think saying "sacred numbers" is really bad or anything. Sometimes the devil seeks to pervert the right ways of God. In either case, he presents facts in Scripture in regards to Biblical Numerics. He shows you facts about numbers in the Bible.



The Bible says count numbers as a part of wisdom. You apparently do not agree with that part of the Bible because of your bad experience with numbers. The numbers that appear in the Bible are arranged there by God. Everything God does is holy and good and perfect. The Bible is called the Holy Bible. Everything in the Bible was written under the inspiration of God. Every dot and tittle is there by God's design. That is what I believe Mike is saying in regards to the numbers being sacred. They are there by God's holy design. Mike does not tell you to use these numbers to make life choices in the video or to pray using numbers. He merely points out the awesomeness of God's Word. Do you not see the Bible as being the Holy Bible?

In fact, God even says to Moses that he was standing on holy ground! So Moses had to take off his footware.

you aren't even reading my responses completely. I have three times now said I do not think numbers to be bad, only the usage of interpreting SACRED NUMBERS. How does one even have a bad experience with numbers. I'm not going to continue this because you aren't even trying to look at what I am stating, only repeating your own views.
 
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you aren't even reading my responses completely. I have three times now said I do not think numbers to be bad, only the usage of interpreting SACRED NUMBERS.

I merely say that you think numbers are bad because you are unwilling to look at the facts on numbers in God's Word with Pastor Mike's video. The numbers in God's word (and their meaning defined by the Bible) is merely neutral information. What you decide to do with that information is up to you. My encouragement to you is.... watch the video; Then you can make your judgments.

As for the words "sacred numbers":
Do you believe the Bible should called the Holy Bible?
Do you believe the Bible to be inspired by the Holy Spirit?
Is not the author of the Bible ultimately God?
So is it not possible that the arrangement or placement of those numbers in the Bible is there by God's design? Or do you think God just randomly through in the numbers with no real rhyme or reason?
 
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Did not God tell Moses to take off his footware because he was standing on holy ground?

If the occult decided to say.... "holy ground" over and over. Does that undo what the Bible says concerning God and Moses?
 
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☦Marius☦

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I merely say that you think numbers are bad because you are unwilling to look at the facts on numbers in God's Word with Pastor Mike's video. The numbers in God's word (and their meaning defined by the Bible) is merely neutral information. What you decide to do with that information is up to you.

As for the words "sacred numbers":
Do you believe the Bible should called the Holy Bible?
Do you believe the Bible to be inspired by the Holy Spirit?
Is not the author of the Bible ultimately God?
So is it not possible that the arrangement or placement of those numbers in the Bible is there by God's design? Or do you think God just randomly through in the numbers with no real rhyme or reason?

yes because I know the source of where the Idea's of "sacred numbers" come from. There are directly tied to Kabbalic and Enochian magic, used for summoning angels and demons. And in the Kabbalic tradition used to move higher up toward Godhood. You aren't wary because you are (thankfully) ignorant of the full picture. All occult practice is revolved around trying to rationalize and use God. That is not what a Christian is meant to do.
 
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yes because I know the source of where the Idea's of "sacred numbers" come from. There are directly tied to Kabbalic and Enochian magic, used for summoning angels and demons. And in the Kabbalic tradition used to move higher up toward Godhood. You aren't wary because you are (thankfully) ignorant of the full picture. All occult practice is revolved around trying to rationalize and use God. That is not what a Christian is meant to do.

But where in the Bible does it say that using the words "sacred numbers" is wrong? Is it not possible that the devil is trying to take something from God's Word and make it His own? Again, do you believe the Bible should be called the Holy Bible? If so, then is not the message of God's Word holy in some way?
 
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☦Marius☦

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Did not God tell Moses to take off his footware because he was standing on holy ground?

If the occult decided to say.... "holy ground" over and over. Does that undo what the Bible says concerning God and Moses?

the term Sacred Numbers, is not Biblical, unlike Holy Ground. Nowhere in the Bible will you find it talking about certain numbers being Holy or special (with the exception of 666) , all you will find is that certain numbers repeat. That does not mean they themselves are Holy. And it is not up to us to decide which are and are not.
 
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☦Marius☦

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But where in the Bible does it say that using the words "sacred numbers" is wrong? Is it not possible that the devil is trying to take something from God's Word and make it His own? Again, do you believe the Bible should be called the Holy Bible? If so, then everything in the Bible is Holy, right?

The number 666 is in the Bible. Is it now holy?
 
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the term Sacred Numbers, is not Biblical, unlike Holy Ground. Nowhere in the Bible will you find it talking about certain numbers being Holy or special (with the exception of 666) , all you will find is that certain numbers repeat. That does not mean they themselves are Holy. And it is not up to us to decide which are and are not.

In the Bible we have an example of God telling us to count a number as a part of wisdom.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (Revelation 13:18).

So we have a biblical example here of counting numbers. If God in no way wanted us to count numbers as a part of wisdom, then he would have commanded us not to do so. But here we see an example of us to do so.

Yes, the number of the beast is not a holy number. It is the mark of the beast; And folks in the future will not be able to buy or sell without this mark.

Anyways, God placed numbers in His Word for a reason. God does not do things with no rhyme or reason. We can actually see the pattern of meaning with the numbers in the Bible very clearly. But you don't want to see this (Which is your choice).

I told you I do not use numbers to figure out the future and or to make important life decisions and or to pray. Numbers merely are there in the Bible to show that God's Word is indeed the Holy Bible.
 
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In the Bible we have an example of God telling us to count a number as a part of wisdom.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (Revelation 13:18).

So we have a biblical example here of counting numbers. If God in no way wanted us to count numbers as a part of wisdom, then he would have commanded us not to do so. But here we see an example of us to do so.

Oh, and the number of the beast is not a holy number. It is the mark of the beast; And folks in the future will not be able to buy or sell without this mark.

Anyways, God placed numbers in His Word for a reason. God does not do things with no rhyme or reason. We can actually see the pattern of meaning with the numbers in the Bible very clearly. But you don't want to see this (Which is your choice).

I told you I do not use numbers to figure out the future and or to make important life decisions and or to pray. Numbers merely are there in the Bible to show that God's Word is indeed the Holy Bible.

I have answered this about 3 times now. You are simply not interested in actually reading my arguments.
 
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The number 666 is in the Bible. Is it now holy?

Everything in God's Word is there by the inspiration of God. God records things that are both good and evil to lead men to repentance and salvation. The meaning of the number 666 is evil, but it was placed there as a part of God's divine or holy hand. We also have to understand that God has the ability to use bad situations for a greater purpose of good, too. We see this in the life of story of Joseph. What evil his brothers intended against him, God intended for good in the end. In the end of Joseph's story (in the Bible), we see reconciliation between Joseph and his brothers. So in a way, God has a greater plan for good in allowing for the Mark to take place upon our Earth. All things in the Bible is a part of this great plan for good that God has for His creation. God told Moses that he was standing on holy ground. How can ground be holy? How can God's Word be holy if it has things in it that appear to be impure to us? Well, we have to understand that God has a greater plan for good. All things work together for good to those who love God. Should we say that the Bible is no longer the Holy Bible? Is it a lie for us to say... "Holy Bible"?
 
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I have answered this about 3 times now. You are simply not interested in actually reading my arguments.

Watch the video. Then make your judgments. That's all I ask.
 
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Your question is irrelevant to me. I don't drink alcohol. I gave it up in 1996. The reason why I am even bothering to address you on this subject is because you are misleading others to believe alcohol consumption, no matter what the amount or for what purpose, is sin.

As I mentioned before, strong alcoholic drinks are only sinful if you consume them for social reasons and not for medical reasons in a rare emergency.

Also, I have talked with people before who told me they gave up alcohol, but they still talk about it like it is God's gift to man. The problem here is that you are simply unaware that alcoholic drinks (of today) are technically a toxin or mild poison that the body's immune system can fight off (for the most part) in moderate consumption. The body cannot absorb alcohol and so it seeks to get rid of it. All calories from alcoholic beverages are empty calories and there is no nutritional value. Also, mothers who are pregnant are told not to drink alcohol because it can harm the child. In fact, even moderate use of alcohol continually can lead to having an irregular heartbeat, receiving a stroke, or heart failure (See this new medical study at this article here). That is because alcohol is a poison. Once you realize alcohol is a poison and of empty value, you will see it as sinful. For Scripture says that if you defile God's temple, God will destroy that person (1 Corinthians 3:17).

31 "Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!
32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper." (Proverbs 23:31-32 NIV).

You said:
What do you say about the instruction that was given in the Law to use tithe money to purchase strong drink if the people so desired it (see Deuteronomy 14:26). Would you say we should rip that portion out of the Scriptures because it encourages people to commit sin? And if it were a sin to consume alcohol, then why instruct the people to purchase it if they so desired? To accept your strong position on this subject, one must disagree with the Bible. Are you suggesting you are more inspired than Moses who instructed the Israelites to use tithe money to purchase either "wine or strong drink" as they desired?

There are three types of wine mentioned in the Bible.

Wine Type #1. - Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).
Wine Type #2. - Wine mixed or diluted by three parts of water
(Wine Low in Alcoholic Content).
Wine Type #3. - Fully Fermented Wine (Wine High in Alcoholic Content).​

The Israelite would buy alcoholic beverages with it being high in alcoholic content for storage and for medical reasons, but when it came time to drink it, they diluted it with water. For Scripture says, "She has prepared her meat; she has mixed her wine; she has also set her table." (Proverbs 9:2). In fact, a few chapters later: We learn that the Israelite did not drink strong drink or wine so that they might know that the Lord is God.

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).

Side Note: Please keep in mind that there is a bad version of mixing wine in the Bible, as well. So yes, I am aware of such passages.

You said:
Regarding the word "sober": Words have different meanings depending on the context in which they are used. For example, people used to say "tempt" when they really meant "to test". Meanings of words can change over time. When you see the word "sober" in the Bible, it doesn't necessarily mean it is referring to abstaining from alcohol. The expression "sober minded" is best understood as: be watchful, discreet, maintain self-control. That could apply to anything. Not just alcohol. And one could consume alcohol and maintain self-control. It may seem impossible to you, but people do it every day.

This is simply not true. A study shows that even after one drink, people's reaction time in driving was seriously slowed from when they were sober. Also, to say that the Bible does not mean sober when it says sober is simply to re-write the Bible because we do not like that word.

You said:
The Bible warns people against being drunkards. It does not say alcohol consumption is sin. Do you also think cancer patients who use THC to treat their pain are sinning against God and on their way to hell? Are people also guilty of sin if they use medication which causes drowsiness?

As I said before, alcohol consumption (other than for medical reasons) is forbidden.

You said:
A person who is caught up in fanaticism will stop at nothing to make a point. Such people do not think rationally. I am afraid that's where you are on this subject.

I can say the same for you. Try doing your homework and look into how the many problems that arise from mild consumption of alcohol. Do a paper on it or something and get back to me.
 
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