Major contradiction: John 2 versus Matthew 4

[JesusFollowerForever]

I was asking how to explain how the devil was destroyed by the death of Christ. (Heb 2:14)

it can be easily explained like this:

1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For to be fleshly minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom 8:3)

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:14-17)

The serpent represents the sinful flesh of man. And because Jesus possessed the same sinful flesh (the devil), when Jesus was lifted up on the cross and his flesh destroyed, the devil or sinful flesh was destroyed.

The devil still exists because sinful flesh still exists. But he was destoyed in the flesh of Jesus. So we look to him? I gave you the correct answer, to me it is blasphemy to say christ had sinful flesh, i disagree totally with what you wrote.

I gave you the correct answer, to me it is blasphemy to say christ had sinful flesh, i disagree totally with what you wrote.

 

[BibleLinguist]

Let's see if we can give some answers here, rather than speculations.

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Jesus went into the wilderness first, just as the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) describe. As Mark puts it, "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness." (Mark 1:11-12).

But then it would infer that Jesus had been through the wilderness 40 days and nights BEFORE He did the water to wine miracle. We know this cannot be the case.

Yes, Jesus did spend the 40 days in the wilderness prior to his first miracle, which was done at the wedding in Cana.

Did He cleanse the temple twice?

Yes, Jesus cleansed the temple twice: once near the beginning of his ministry, and once near its end. Many find this to be worthy of some contemplation.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Asking a genuine question about Biblical interpretation should not be classed as a foolish question.

There is no documentation as to what John meant when he said "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there". I believe it was the 3rd day of the first Month, 11 days before Passover and Unleavened bread. When Jesus said His Time had not yet come, HE was Speaking of His Ministry which was beginning.

The fact of the matter is this: In the Bible, only one day of the week has a name--the seventh day, which is called "Sabbath." All of the other days of the week are called by their numbers, e.g. first day (toward the Sabbath), second day, etc. Understanding this, "the third day" would reference what nowadays we would call Tuesday.

Hours were also called by number. For example:

"Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour." (John 4:6)​

This "sixth hour" is obviously not the sixth hour of Jesus' life, nor of his ministry, nor even of this particular journey. The hours were counted from 6 a.m. when the sun would typically rise, so the "sixth hour" is what today we would call noon. Whereas we have names for some of these times, they had simply numbers.

 

[Peacemaker1]

The Spirit which Paul speaks of is the Spirit of God. If one walks
in the Spirit of truth he will not fulfill the deeds of the flesh.
If one walks in the spirit of lies, it’s because he doesn’t know the truth or doesn’t believe it.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Peacemaker1]

I find no contradiction at all, when a person reads what is actually written. Although I have heard "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, promote the divisive philosophy that John and Matthew contradicted each other. Don't listen to them my friend, don't follow them, don't go to their manmade shrines of worship. Read for yourself what the scriptures actually say.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Are the gospels necessarily chronological?

 

[friend of]

Yes, Jesus did spend the 40 days in the wilderness prior to his first miracle, which was done at the wedding in Cana

Thank you for your answers. I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

My biggest problem right now is that Jesus claimed His time had not come yet, when He was at the wedding in Cana. If this was after His time in the wilderness being tempted, then how could this be? If He was baptized in the Spirit, which I assume was His inauguration to the commencement of His ministry, then His time had come, had it not?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thank you for your answers. I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

My biggest problem right now is that Jesus claimed His time had not come yet, when He was at the wedding in Cana. If this was after His time in the wilderness being tempted, then how could this be? If He was baptized in the Spirit, which I assume was His inauguration to the commencement of His ministry, then His time had come, had it not?

Pondering on this - I think Jesus shows His humility here, being only able to do what He could see the Father was doing. On this occasion it seems Mary was being inspired to prompt Jesus into action. Bearing in mind that Jesus was always fully dependant on the Father it was an occasion for the Fathers will and timing to be confirmed. And so it is in Christian ministry - it is all about Him and His purpose and timing.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Thank you for your answers. I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

My biggest problem right now is that Jesus claimed His time had not come yet, when He was at the wedding in Cana. If this was after His time in the wilderness being tempted, then how could this be? If He was baptized in the Spirit, which I assume was His inauguration to the commencement of His ministry, then His time had come, had it not?

Not sure I understand your concern. Does the following help at all?

34Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36The word which God sent to the [l]children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him (Acts 10:34-38)

 

[godisagardener]

People in general -- including those who put the Gospels into the form we read -- tell events from their perspective and they highlight what is important to them.

If twelve people walked with me for three years of my life, watched everything I did, ate at the same table, slept in the same house, followed me to work, saw me interact with other people, heard and listened to the words from my lips, saw how I treated other people, saw how others treated me . . . they would all, on an individual basis, remember the things about me that were most important to them.

If those same twelve people were asked to write an essay about those three years, they would all write something completely different. They might write events of my life chronologically, as best they remember. They might write the most important things they remember first and the least important last, if at all. They might spend a great deal of time on the big things, taking up pages, while just putting down a sentence or paragraph for minor events.

The Gospels are told from the point of view of the writers. Bits of minutia may have been forgotten by one, only to be added later, or simply left out by another. It all goes back to the writer and what is remembered. I doubt any of the Gospel writers were taking notes.

It defeats the purpose of the Gospels to try to pick them apart. Yes, there may be contradictions -- according to us humans -- but as Christians we're to accept Christ through faith. The Gospels were written by ordinary men who had that faith. Much of the New Testament, including the Gospels, hold mysteries we'll never know about until we meet Jesus. Maybe we should save questions like this one and ask Him when that time comes.

 

[BibleLinguist]

Thank you for your answers. I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

My biggest problem right now is that Jesus claimed His time had not come yet, when He was at the wedding in Cana. If this was after His time in the wilderness being tempted, then how could this be? If He was baptized in the Spirit, which I assume was His inauguration to the commencement of His ministry, then His time had come, had it not?

The word translated as "time" in your Bible might also be translated as "hour" or "moment".

Remember, Jesus is speaking to his own mother here--the same mother who knew clearly who Jesus was and that he would fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah. So when he tells her that his hour has not yet come, he's basically testing her faith. She knows, however, that he is already acquiring disciples, and her faith is strong that he can help in this situation. So she tells the servants to do whatever Jesus asks. Jesus responds to this faith by doing the first miracle of his public ministry, i.e. his "moment" arrives shortly after saying he was not there yet.

However, Jesus was also speaking in this way to draw a connection to the prophecies.

The "time" is not a reference to his death, but to the start of his public ministry. This is the "time" of the Messiah referred to in Daniel 9:24-27:

Daniel 9:24	Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:25	Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26	And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:27	And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This "time" is a reference to the prophetic time which had been appointed. Notice that the Messiah is said to come for half of a week--only half because he is "cut off" in the middle of that week. With each day representative of one year, following the principle established in Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34, this half-week signifies three and a half years--the duration of Christ's public ministry prior to being "cut off" by crucifixion.

The full 490-year prophecy begins in 457 BC with the proclamation to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. In AD 27, Jesus is baptized and led to the wilderness to fast and pray, where he is also tempted--preparing him for this ministry; and it is just afterward that Jesus is seen publicly at the wedding, beginning his ministry with the miracle of the water turned to wine.

NOTE: For those working with a calculator to apply these prophetic times, remember that there was no zero year: 1 BC is immediately followed by AD 1. Not remembering this detail is a common mistake.

 

[Rose_bud]

Thank you for your answers. I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

My biggest problem right now is that Jesus claimed His time had not come yet, when He was at the wedding in Cana. If this was after His time in the wilderness being tempted, then how could this be? If He was baptized in the Spirit, which I assume was His inauguration to the commencement of His ministry, then His time had come, had it not?

Hi there friend of

John's purpose for writing is in John 20:30-31.

He could of written many more things and this chronologically, but he is selective in his writings. This is to emphasize certain miracles/signs. Demonstrating to his audience that He (Jesus) is God.

When reading the book of John as a whole this is a key phrase ... "His hour had not yet come", he says it to Mary (John 2:4) then throughout the book to others including his brothers (John 7:6, 8; John 8:20) until his hour does finally come (John 12:23, 27).
... He was on nobody's schedule but His own. Not his mother, not his brothers, but the Father. Sovereignly in control of the redemption plan. My time has not yet come, until he reaches the cross (John 17:1). The reason for Him coming to die and be resurrected, for our sake. So we can believe He is God and receive eternal life.

 

[friend of]

"His hour had not yet come", he says it to Mary (John 2:4) then throughout the book to others including his brothers (John 7:6, 8; John 8:20) until his hour does finally come

good point. thanks

 

[One God and Father of All]

good point. thanks

Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb.

 

[Soulx3]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

It's not a matter of contradiction, but rather a lack of a written account from one of the three evangelists, specifically John, about Jesus's time in the desert, which preceded the wedding in Cana, and both of these events occurred post-baptism.

Generally speaking, if when reading Scripture you notice an actual imperfect chronological order of events, I'm compelled to share that during 1943-1950, Maria Valtorta received from Jesus visions of scenes from His three-year public life, including those we read in the New Testament, which she described in writing in extensive detail. On September 23rd, 1944, Jesus explained the following:

"The order of the Gospels is good, but not perfect as a chronological order. A diligent observer notices that. He who could have given the exact order of events, having been with Me from the beginning of the Evangelization to My Ascension, did not do so, because John, a true son of the Light, devoted himself to and worried about making the Light shine brightly through its appearance of a Body in the eyes of the heretics, who contested the truth of the Divinity enclosed in a human body. John's sublime Gospel achieved its supernatural purpose, but the chronology of My public life has not been improved by it. The other three evangelists show resemblances to one another with regard to events, but they alter their order with regard to time, because only one of the three was present at almost all My public life: Matthew, and he wrote it only fifteen years later, whilst the others wrote theirs even later, after hearing the story from My Mother, from Peter, from other apostles and disciples. I want to give you a guide to collect together the events of the three years, year by year."

All of Maria Valtorta's writings were compiled into multi-volume books entitled The Gospels As They Were Revealed To Me, or The Poem of the Man-God, initially published anonymously. You can read all the volumes here for free. In volume I, chapter 44 is where Jesus's Evangelical journey begins:

Ch. 44. Farewell to His Mother and Departure from Nazareth.
Ch. 45. Jesus Is Baptised in the Jordan.
Ch. 46. Jesus Is Tempted in the Desert by the Devil.
Ch. 47. Jesus Meets John and James.
Ch. 48. John and James Speak to Peter about the Messiah.
Ch. 49. First Meeting of Peter and the Messiah.
Ch. 50. Jesus at Bethsaida in Peter's House. He Meets Philip and Nathanael.
Ch. 51. Judas Thaddeus at Bethsaida to Invite Jesus to the Wedding at Cana.
Ch. 52. Jesus at the Wedding at Cana.

... and so on.

If you have any questions, please ask. :]