John Prewett

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I got it from the Bible notice the Bible verses quoted in the post.
"Are you claiming you are the 'messenger' ?.... or the SDAdventist are the 'messenger' ?"
You missed what I was intending guess I should have said "poster on this forum" instead of messanger
"Do you deny you are conveying SDAdventist doctrine regarding the Revelation interpretation ?"
Sorry to disappoint you but the year for day principle is throughout all denominations,
including the futurists which I believe you are.

I don't know all the Rev interpretations of all the MANY "denominations",
However, I'm confident your speculative interpretation of Rev 13:5 is not shared by "all denomination".

The "42 months = 1260 years" speculative interpretation is classic and fundamental SDAdventist doctrine,
and is most likely where you absorbed it from.

Adventist Church in UK and Ireland | National Site | Home Adventist Church in UK and Ireland | National Site | Home/__data/assets/text_file/0011/10910/1260days.txt

As for "futurist" ... I am confident that Revelation 13->forward reveals the "future" scenario.
Of course the Vatican fulfillment of 17&18 has been seen for well over a 1000 years (by Jesus's people who were labeled "heretic")
 
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John Prewett

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This is all a complete waste of time. Paul tells us the man of sin will not be revealed (as the Beast of chapter 13) UNTIL the church (the one restraining) has been "taken out of the way." THEN he will be revealed.

Paul (speaking of the 'end time' of ancient Israel (not OUR 'end time') wrote that the 'man of sin' (the "Beast" of his era) would not be revealed until after the 'falling away' and that is the falling away from the faith .... there will be NO "rapture" before the Beast emerges and reigns.

It is WONDERFUL that Jesus's people will be right here on earth during the reign of the Beast .....
This will be the time for Jesus's EMPOWERED (see Isaiah 40:29-31) people to 'rise and shine' and "overcome the Beast" (see Rev 15)

See Rev 20:4
 
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John Prewett

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This is just about as far-fetched as anything I have ever read .......
yea, people thought it pretty far fetched that the son of a carpenter (so they thought) born in a barn would be the God-sent Messiah.
There is simply no hint in the bible of a human being ever escaping from hell or from the bottomless pit. It is a notion with no basis but human reasoning. ..............

Neither JFK nor Kissinger have ever been in hell.
If JFK is in the 'bottomless pit' he is quite comfortable and will emerge from the pit empowered by Satan. (emerge as per Rev 13)
 
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Douggg

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Sorry, but this is incorrect. The days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will not even start until AFTER chapter 14. Did you not notice that in chapter 14 God sends angels to warn people not to receive the mark? That means the mark has not yet been enforced. Then in chapter 15 we see the beheaded begin to arrive in heaven.
Rather than what chapter, what event triggers the great tribulation? Going by Matthew 24:15, it is the abomination of desolation AOD.

In Dainiel 12:12 there are 1335 days from when the AOD is setup, blessed are those who remain faithful to the 1355th days counting from the day the AOD is setup.

On the seven year timeline, day1, the first day of the 7 years...

day 1......day 1185 AOD, then count forward 1335 days to day 2520....Jesus returns day 2520.
 
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A71

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Yes Vinsight, this correct.
Isaiah 44:28

“That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.”

Isaiah 45:13

“I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build My city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.”
 
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A71

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Ezra 1
1Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Also Vinsight, we have the opening verses of Ezra....pretty unequivocal no?
And pretty straightforward also; the 70 year Jeremiah captivity ends and the 490 year punishment begins. One succeeds the other.
 
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A71

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Ezra 6:14

“And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.”
Another massive problem, well blatant error really, for the proponents of the Artaxerxes commandment is that the Temple was rebuilt by 518/516BC. So how do they stick him in 467? (Which also would make Ezra about 100 years old minimum, but likely 120ish) Absolutely nuts, but the Church propagates this nonsense, and no-one seems to have the basic critical faculty to challenge it
 
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Original Happy Camper

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OHC, what is day 1 of the 70th week for your view?

The baptism of Jesus Christ
Dan 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks

3.5 years later Jesus was crucified,
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

3.5 years later the Gospel went to the Gentiles
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The last week is about Jesus and the Gospel.
 
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Douggg

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The baptism of Jesus Christ
Dan 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks

3.5 years later Jesus was crucified,
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

3.5 years later the Gospel went to the Gentiles
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The last week is about Jesus and the Gospel.
What is the first day (or first year in your view) of the 1260 days (years in your view) of the two witnesses testimony. And the first year of the 1260 years(?) of Revelation 12:6 ?
 
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A71

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The baptism of Jesus Christ
Dan 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks

3.5 years later Jesus was crucified,
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

3.5 years later the Gospel went to the Gentiles
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The last week is about Jesus and the Gospel.

Multiple problems with this OHC.

1) Jesus started his ministry in AD30. 483 years back from that is 454BC. There was no decree of any sort in this year.

2) maschiyach nagiyd means simply an anointed leader. It is used frequently in the Bible. Cyrus for instance was a maschiyach nagiyd. This is a translation error in the KJV.

3) The anointed leader is cut off after 62 weeks (i.e. 69 weeks). So by your logic Jesus was anointed and cut off at the same time.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

4) and now what do you make of the last week?...Jesus is crucified in AD 33, so now one has to cobble together a story for the last week from AD33-40 that clearly bears no relation to the text.
 
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Douggg

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3) The anointed leader is cut off after 62 weeks (i.e. 69 weeks). So by your logic Jesus was anointed and cut off at the same time.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
My side comment to Jesus being anointed at the time of being water baptized.

Jesus was baptized the day he was crucified, with the baptism by being immersed in death, not water.

37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
 
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A71

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Peter tells us that Jesus was first anointed at his baptism.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Can you scripturally support the baptism of death as an anointing Doug?
But even if that were so, it would simply mean that Jesus was crucified at the end of the 69th week. The 70th week is still then left hanging.

The standard interpretation is very messy, primarily because it is wrong.
I am fed up of hearing, 'but Chuck Missler says'....
 
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