Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

[Truth7t7]

Let's let scripture interpret scripture for the real evidence you seek:

MYSTERY BABYLON
Rev. 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets...

JERUSALEM
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee...

Luke 13:33
... for it cannot be that a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.


MYSTERY BABYLON
Revelation 18:22-23
...and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

JERUSALEM
Jeremiah 25:10-11
Moreover I WILL TAKE FROM THEM the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;

MYSTERY BABYLON
Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that GREAT CITYBabylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

JERUSALEM
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [our Lord died in Jerusalem, of course]

MYSTERY BABYLON -- CLOTHED IN PRIESTLY GARMENTS OF AARONIC PRIESTHOOD
Revelation 17:4, 18:16
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication ... And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones...

PRIESTLY GARMENTS OF AARONIC PRIESTHOOD
Exodus 28:4-6, 17-20
they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister
unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with skillful work....And thou shalt taketwo onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel...Exodus 28:17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row. And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings...

JERUSALEM
Jeremiah 4:30
Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers

MYSTERY BABYLON
Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

JERUSALEM
Jeremiah 3:1
but thou hast played THE HARLOT with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 3:3
and thou hadst a w-hore's forehead...

Ezekiel 16:35-36
Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy ABOMINATIONS, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

MYSTERY BABYLON
Revelation 18:20
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

JERUSALEM/APOSTATE ISRAEL
Luke 11:47
Woe unto you! ... Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: THAT THE BLOOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, IT SHALL BE REQUIRED of this generation.

The cross references in Holy Scripture are so abundant as to leave us without any doubt who is Mystery Babylon -- JERUSALEM AND APOSTATE ISRAEL.

Jerusalem is the Great City in the book of Revelation (Rev 11:8). She is Babylon (1 Pet 5:12-13), the Harlot that rode on the Beast's back (her alliance with Ancient Rome) before the Beast turned on her and made her desolate and burned her with fire (Rev 17:16; Lk.21:20).

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations. The Hebrew/Biblical understanding of Jerusalem is that she is the "Chief of the nations" (Jeremiah 31:7; Ez 5:5), the Queen city of the earth (Lam 1:1/Rev 18:7). She, by Divine right and covenant, was appointed as the head of all nations (Deut 26:19; Deut 15:6; Deut 28:1,10-13), and the gentile kings recognized God's dwelling was at Jerusalem with the Hebrews (1 Ki 10:24; Luke 11:31; Ezra 1:2; Dan 2:47, 3:28-29, 4:1-3, 4:17, 4:34-37; Ezra 1; Ezra 4-7; Ezra 7:15,23).

The Governor of all nations (Ps. 22:28) lived in Jerusalem in his House (Ez 7:15,23), and all the kingdom, power and might over earth was His (1 Chron 29:11-12). Indeed, all kings receive their power to rule from that Divine King (Rom 13:1-2,6; John 19:11; 1 Pet 2:13-14,17; Ez 1:2; Dan 1:1-2; Dan 2:20-21; Dan 2:37-38; Dan 2:47, Dan 3:28-29; Dan 4:1-3,17,34-37.).

Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-37; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-37; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).

Sorry about that, lost track of you in the thread.

Excellent layout, save that one for a continual topic!

We agree 100%!

 

[Davy]

The coming "False Prophet" will call fire down from heaven, and perform miracles in the sight of the Beast.
Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20

That will be Satan, the dragon doing that, which is who Rev.13:4 says the world will worship, and is who will be booted out of heaven down to this earth for the end per Rev.12:7 forward.

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?'
KJV

 

[parousia70]

We agree 100%!

Aww man, I really hate to burst your bubble, but I think it may only be 99%, As I do not believe Mystery Babylon is MODERN Jerusalem.

I believe it referrs to the pre desolation Jerusalem, and she has long since paid her debt in full.

 

[David Kent]

How does this mean that? and what does "Baptist Churches around here are in Churches together" mean exactly?

Churches together are groups of churches in a town or area who meet together In our town they include Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, Congregational, Charismatics, Romanists, Housegroups, but I am not sure about the Spriritulists, or Church of the Holy Spirit, as they call themselves Scripture tell us to separate from error not to join with it. It results in Aglicans having confession and Mass, and baptists having lent classes, and one believing in transubstantiation It eneds with the lowest common denominator, Rome

 

[David Kent]

That will be Satan, the dragon doing that, which is who Rev.13:4 says the world will worship, and is who will be booted out of heaven down to this earth for the end per Rev.12:7 forward.

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?'
KJV

You do pull verses out of their setting and make them into something they are NOT, but you are not the only one, you have just absorbed what they teach without critical reading. Read from the beginning of the chapter it runs on seamlessly. As you emphasise it is a man. That man is The King of Babylon.

• Isaiah 14: 1-32 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
• 2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
• 3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
• 4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
• 5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
• 6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
• 7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
• 8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
• 9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
• 10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
• 11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
• 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
• 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
• 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
• 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
• 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
• 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
• 18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
• 19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

• 20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
• 21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
• 22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
• 23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
• 24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
• 25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
• 26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
• 27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
• 28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
• 29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
• 30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
• 31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
• 32What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

 

[Truth7t7]

That will be Satan, the dragon doing that, which is who Rev.13:4 says the world will worship, and is who will be booted out of heaven down to this earth for the end per Rev.12:7 forward.

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?'
KJV

The beast and false prophet are two separate individual human beings.

As the "False Prophet" performs miracles in the sight of the beast.

As their physical individual bodies "BOTH" are thrown into the flame.

Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 16:12-17, Revelation 19:20

 

[John Prewett]

The beast and false prophet are two separate individual human beings. ............

Amen ! And it is important to know that.

 

[Truth7t7]

Aww man, I really hate to burst your bubble, but I think it may only be 99%, As I do not believe Mystery Babylon is MODERN Jerusalem.

I believe it referrs to the pre desolation Jerusalem, and she has long since paid her debt in full.

My bubble is burst, as my posting reveals my belief.

Do you believe in a future literal human man as antichrist? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Do you believe in a future literal tribulation? Matthew 24:21

 

[Davy]

I speak to interested brethren here to show Kent's response as an example of those who at times disregard God's way of communicating a Lesson using metaphor. Some appear to be incapable of understanding usage of metaphor and allegory.

In Ezekiel 28, God begins it speaking about the flesh prince of Tyrus, and how that prince had said, "I am a God". And God said that he was just a 'man'. Then God begins speaking of the king of Tyrus the same idea, but this time God refers to him as having been in the Garden of Eden (Ezek.28:13). God also said about him, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth..." (Ezek.28:14). Obviously God is not... speaking about a flesh born prince or king, for no flesh born is a heavenly cherub, nor was in God's Garden of Eden. He is speaking a metaphor or parable about Satan who is a cherub (heavenly being) who tempted Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden.

In Isaiah 14, God likewise does this again, but with saying for Isaiah to tell a "proverb" against the historical king of Babylon.

Isa 14:4
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
KJV

The Hebrew for "proverb" means a simile, or a metaphor, or parable. I've noticed some men have a difficult time understanding simile or metaphor, where a description of one thing is used to point to or describe something totally different. All languages use it though. And God often used it in His Holy Writ.

From Isaiah 14:4 forward, God is metaphorically pointing to Satan, while referring to the historical king of Babylon.

Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
KJV

The KJV translators put that name "Lucifer" in their translation. In the Hebrew OT manuscripts it's actually just the word for 'morning star', which the KJV translators did give as an alternate reading in their 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible. But they obviously wanted brethren to know that God was actually speaking metaphorically there about Satan while pointing to the historical king of Babylon.

What's the meaning then? Was God intending that just about the historical flesh king of Babylon? No, of course not. God was pointing to Satan's rebellion in coveting God's Throne, especially in the Ezekiel 28 example because Satan as an "anointed cherub that covereth" is about his original job before he rebelled of guarding God's Throne.

And remember that GOD is our KING. It hurt His feelings when the children of Israel wanted a flesh man for king like the pagan nations around them (1 Samuel 8). And the problem of imperfect flesh kings has been with His people ever since. Satan represents the ultimate usurper of wanting to be GOD The KING, so those like the flesh king of Babylon are simply patterns of what he tried to do at his first rebellion in coveting God's Throne. If you don't understand this matter, then much of God's Word will remain a mystery to you.

What this means also, is that the historical king of Babylon also serves as a blueprint for the coming Antichrist at the end of this world. Study the time of Daniel the prophet and Nebuchadnezzar and you will have some more info about the type of events for the end of this world. After all, did you not notice that our Lord Jesus referred directly to Babylon in His Revelation for the end?

You do pull verses out of their setting and make them into something they are NOT, but you are not the only one, you have just absorbed what they teach without critical reading. Read from the beginning of the chapter it runs on seamlessly. As you emphasise it is a man. That man is The King of Babylon.

• Isaiah 14: 1-32 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
• 2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
• 3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
• 4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
• 5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
• 6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
• 7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
• 8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
• 9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
• 10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
• 11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
• 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
• 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
• 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
• 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
• 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
• 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
• 18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
• 19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

• 
  
  
  • 20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
  • 21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
  • 22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
  • 23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
  • 24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
  • 25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
  • 26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
  • 27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
  • 28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
  • 29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
  • 30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
  • 31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
  • 32What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

 

[Davy]

The beast and false prophet are two separate individual human beings.

As the "False Prophet" performs miracles in the sight of the beast.

As their physical individual bodies "BOTH" are thrown into the flame.

Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 16:12-17, Revelation 19:20

No flesh man is judged until the GWT Judgment at the end of the future thousand years of Rev.20. That is how we can be sure... the false prophet and beast are not flesh men because they are cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' return at the start... of the thousand years of Rev. 20. Easy.

 

[Truth7t7]

No flesh man is judged until the GWT Judgment at the end of the future thousand years of Rev.20. That is how we can be sure... the false prophet and beast are not flesh men because they are cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' return at the start... of the thousand years of Rev. 20. Easy.

Not only do you deny the beast and false prophet are literal men, you falsely believe they are the same person.

I have been a believer for 40 years, and never heard such a belief, thats 100% contrary to scripture, "Never"

Your One Of A Kind.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg: I read your post 472 and am confident it is riddled with error.
I'm confident the Supreme Beast will be a Roman Catholic because the Supreme Beast is connected to the Great harlot in Rev 17 (Great harlot rides the Beast). I'm well aware JFK was not a Jew .....

John, I will show you why from Revelation why it is not JFK, and the person has not been killed yet.

In Revelation, there are three different description of the crowns on both the heads and the horns of the beast. I have studied that topic many many years.

In Revelation 17, there are 7 heads and 10 horns - none of them have crowns. The reason is in Revelation 17, the timing of the status of the beast is 1st century AD.

The prophecy regarding the 7 kings (the heads) is not completely fulfilled, and the ten kings ruling with the beast are not fulfilled at the time of the 1st century AD.
________________________________________________________________

In Revelation 12, the seven years are structured into the chapter. The first half the 1260 days, Rev12:6. Plus, the second half, which is the time, times, half times, Rev 12:14.

So the description of the heads and horns - the 7 heads have their crowns. That's the important thing for us - to determine that it is not JFK. King 7 will have come to power when the 7 years begin, fulfilling the prophecy of the 7 kings. So the seven heads have crowns.

Note: no mortally wounded head yet.
_____________________________________________________________________

In Revelation 13, the seven heads no longer have crowns. King 7 will have been killed.
Ending the prophecy of the 7 kings.

But king 7's mortal wound will have been healed.

So sometime right before the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 begin, king 7 is killed and come back to life - as the beast and king 8.

Since the 7 years have not even begun yet - we completely eliminate JFK's assassination as being the mortally wounded head. Because the timing of the mortal wounding has to take place after the 7 years begin - but before the last 42 months begin.

7years begin (Rev 12)........King 7 is mortally wounded/recovers........the last 42 months (of the 7 years) begin (Rev 13)

 

[Douggg]

Then why are you appealing to Great Cities outside of Revelation here:

If you are going to create a rule that the rest of us must follow, shouldn't you follow it yourself?
Or are you the exception?

p70 - there should be a rule against that new avatar you have..... :lol. Really it is distracting. Get something more peaceful. You're Catholic. Find something to do with being Catholic. Something peaceful.

I want to talk to and hear from peaceful Catholics around here...

 

[David Kent]

No flesh man is judged until the GWT Judgment at the end of the future thousand years of Rev.20. That is how we can be sure... the false prophet and beast are not flesh men because they are cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' return at the start... of the thousand years of Rev. 20. Easy.

The saints will be raised on the last day, There can be no more days after the last day, anymore than there can be any first day before the first day in Genesis.
John 6:39-54. John 11:24

The last day is also the day of judgement, John 12:48

 

[Douggg]

I speak to interested brethren here to show Kent's response as an example of those who at times disregard God's way of communicating a Lesson using metaphor. Some appear to be incapable of understanding usage of metaphor and allegory.

In Ezekiel 28, God begins it speaking about the flesh prince of Tyrus, and how that prince had said, "I am a God". And God said that he was just a 'man'. Then God begins speaking of the king of Tyrus the same idea, but this time God refers to him as having been in the Garden of Eden (Ezek.28:13). God also said about him, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth..." (Ezek.28:14). Obviously God is not... speaking about a flesh born prince or king, for no flesh born is a heavenly cherub, nor was in God's Garden of Eden. He is speaking a metaphor or parable about Satan who is a cherub (heavenly being) who tempted Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden.

In Isaiah 14, God likewise does this again, but with saying for Isaiah to tell a "proverb" against the historical king of Babylon.

Isa 14:4
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
KJV

The Hebrew for "proverb" means a simile, or a metaphor, or parable. I've noticed some men have a difficult time understanding simile or metaphor, where a description of one thing is used to point to or describe something totally different. All languages use it though. And God often used it in His Holy Writ.

From Isaiah 14:4 forward, God is metaphorically pointing to Satan, while referring to the historical king of Babylon.

Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
KJV

The KJV translators put that name "Lucifer" in their translation. In the Hebrew OT manuscripts it's actually just the word for 'morning star', which the KJV translators did give as an alternate reading in their 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible. But they obviously wanted brethren to know that God was actually speaking metaphorically there about Satan while pointing to the historical king of Babylon.

What's the meaning then? Was God intending that just about the historical flesh king of Babylon? No, of course not. God was pointing to Satan's rebellion in coveting God's Throne, especially in the Ezekiel 28 example because Satan as an "anointed cherub that covereth" is about his original job before he rebelled of guarding God's Throne.

And remember that GOD is our KING. It hurt His feelings when the children of Israel wanted a flesh man for king like the pagan nations around them (1 Samuel 8). And the problem of imperfect flesh kings has been with His people ever since. Satan represents the ultimate usurper of wanting to be GOD The KING, so those like the flesh king of Babylon are simply patterns of what he tried to do at his first rebellion in coveting God's Throne. If you don't understand this matter, then much of God's Word will remain a mystery to you.

What this means also, is that the historical king of Babylon also serves as a blueprint for the coming Antichrist at the end of this world. Study the time of Daniel the prophet and Nebuchadnezzar and you will have some more info about the type of events for the end of this world. After all, did you not notice that our Lord Jesus referred directly to Babylon in His Revelation for the end?

Davy, let me ask you this. In 2thessalonians2:3-4, why is the revealed man of sin when he goes into the temple, sits, also called the son of perdition?

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Davy]

Not only do you deny the beast and false prophet are literal men, you falsely believe they are the same person.

I have been a believer for 40 years, and never heard such a belief, thats 100% contrary to scripture, "Never"

Your One Of A Kind.

They are 'roles' for Satan who is the "dragon" of Rev.13, and the "another beast" of that Chapter, which is the 'beast king' role. He's coming, and I don't think you are ready, but having read this, it might make you consider when the time comes.

 

[Davy]

Brethren, don't you just love it when some think they can just modify God's Holy Writ like flashing a wand in the air? What Kent actually is saying is, there is no such thing as God's Eternity! If there were no days before... Genesis, that would be saying there was nothing, not even God! Likewise, it's saying the same thing after... Christ's return, even though Peter compared one day to God being like a thousand years, and Rev.20 reveals a thousand years period will occur next after Jesus returns. How many days in a thousand years I wonder???

The saints will be raised on the last day, There can be no more days after the last day, anymore than there can be any first day before the first day in Genesis.
John 6:39-54. John 11:24

The last day is also the day of judgement, John 12:48

 

[Davy]

Davy, let me ask you this. In 2thessalonians2:3-4, why is the revealed man of sin when he goes into the temple, sits, also called the son of perdition?

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It's about this same one:

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

That is why our Lord Jesus also called Judas a "son of perdition" because it's a pointer to the devil, and Jesus said this... about Judas also:

John 6:70-71
70 Jesus answered them, 'Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?'

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve.
KJV

Yet, Paul in 2 Thess.2 was not speaking of Judas, because Judas was already dead. The "son of perdition" title points directly to Satan, for he has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. Judas has not yet been judged, because only flesh born wicked perish in the lake of fire at God's GWT Judgment of Rev.20, which the time for such judgment has not happened yet.

 

[John Prewett]

John, I will show you why from Revelation why it is not JFK, and the person has not been killed yet.
In Revelation, there are three different description of the crowns on both the heads and the horns of the beast. I have studied that topic many many years.
In Revelation 17, there are 7 heads and 10 horns - none of them have crowns. The reason is in Revelation 17, the timing of the status of the beast is 1st century AD.
The prophecy regarding the 7 kings (the heads) is not completely fulfilled, and the ten kings ruling with the beast are not fulfilled at the time of the 1st century AD.
________________________________________________________________
In Revelation 12, the seven years are structured into the chapter. The first half the 1260 days, Rev12:6. Plus, the second half, which is the time, times, half times, Rev 12:14.
So the description of the heads and horns - the 7 heads have their crowns. That's the important thing for us - to determine that it is not JFK. King 7 will have come to power when the 7 years begin, fulfilling the prophecy of the 7 kings. So the seven heads have crowns.
Note: no mortally wounded head yet.
_____________________________________________________________________
In Revelation 13, the seven heads no longer have crowns. King 7 will have been killed.
Ending the prophecy of the 7 kings.
But king 7's mortal wound will have been healed.
So sometime right before the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 begin, king 7 is killed and come back to life - as the beast and king 8.
Since the 7 years have not even begun yet - we completely eliminate JFK's assassination as being the mortally wounded head. Because the timing of the mortal wounding has to take place after the 7 years begin - but before the last 42 months begin.
7years begin (Rev 12)........King 7 is mortally wounded/recovers........the last 42 months (of the 7 years) begin (Rev 13)

Revelation 13Modern English Version (MEV)
The Two Beasts
13:1 I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on his horns, and blasphemous names on his heads. 2 The beast which I saw was like a leopard. His feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it was mortally wounded, but his deadly wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast"

When the supreme Beast publicly reappears he will make the world marvel because he has been thought to be dead due to a "deadly head wound."
Of course all know JFK is thought to be dead after receiving a "deadly head wound"
Set before us: World famous Roman Catholic (Beast connected to Great harlot in Rev 17)
received a world famous deadly head wound under very mysterious circumstances.
JFK, lifted up and glorified by the world .... a man given all Satan can give a man ... earthly power, scads of beautiful women, wealth, even some charm and good looks ... All Satan can give a man.

You tell me the JFK Beast correlation is just coincidence.
I'm confident Jesus would not allow such fulfillment just by coincidence.
You tell me JFK cannot be the Beast.
Well, I pay attention to the Revelation. Not to you. Not to 7 billion like you.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 13Modern English Version (MEV)
The Two Beasts
13:1 I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on his horns, and blasphemous names on his heads. 2 The beast which I saw was like a leopard. His feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 I saw one of his heads as if it was mortally wounded, but his deadly wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast"

When the supreme Beast publicly reappears he will make the world marvel because he has been thought to be dead due to a "deadly head wound."
Of course all know JFK is thought to be dead after receiving a "deadly head wound"
Set before us: World famous Roman Catholic (Beast connected to Great harlot in Rev 17)
received a world famous deadly head wound under very mysterious circumstances.
JFK, lifted up and glorified by the world .... a man given all Satan can give a man ... earthly power, scads of beautiful women, wealth, even some charm and good looks ... All Satan can give a man.

You tell me the JFK Beast correlation is just coincidence.
I'm confident Jesus would not allow such fulfillment just by coincidence.
You tell me JFK cannot be the Beast.
Well, I pay attention to the Revelation. Not to you. Not to 7 billion like you.

John, it can't be JFK, because the window for the person to be killed is between the beginning of the 70th week and the middle of the 70th week.

That window is still future of us.