Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

[Davy]

Ive been posting here some time with you.

There is no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

I know you believe there isn't. But I choose to not cast away that Revelation 20 Scripture in God's Word that emphatically states the existence of a "thousand years" reign by Jesus and His elect.

 

[Truth7t7]

Will you "Cast Away" the very clear teaching of Jesus Christ below?

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom as clearly taught in Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34.

Eternity Begins!

I know you believe there isn't. But I choose to not cast away that Revelation 20 Scripture in God's Word that emphatically states the existence of a "thousand years" reign by Jesus and His elect.

 

[David Kent]

David, the arrival in Jerusalem - of Jesus hailed as the messiah was that last passover week. Four days later, he was crucified.

The 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Please notice verse 25 is talking strictly about Jerusalem, the streets, and the wall.

Differently, when Jesus was baptised, Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Jesus was hailed as the messiah, King of Israel by his followers as he entered Jerusalem
Then four days later, his enemies had him killed, then mocked him calling him Christ King of Israel, while he was on the cross. Mark 15:31-32.

I know that futurists make the coming of Jesus into Jerusalem as the end of the 69 weeks, but I believe it is only to fit their theory, to make 70th week as future. Some futurists at present and most in the past say it is only the half week that is future. he Early Church Writers also believed that Christ was crucified in the middle of the week.

It must have been at the baptism of Christ when he was proclaimed by John the Baptist as the lamb of God who took away the sins of the world, and he was anointed by the Holy Spirit and the voice from Heaven said "This is my Beloved Son." Jesus was the Most Holy who was anointed. He then said

• Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
• 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Jesus then said the time is fulfilled.

• Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
• 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

What time could that be? but the end of the 69 weeks? He came as a prince, then and King 3½ years later. In the midst of the week he caaused the sacrifice to cease by his death on the cross, when he was offered as a sacrifice, once and for all.

• • Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[David Kent]

Jesus was hailed as the messiah, King of Israel by his followers as he entered Jerusalem

His disciples claimed him as Messiah after his baptism

• John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

Jesus announced himself to the Samaritans soon after,

• John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
• 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
• 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
• 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
• 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
• 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

 

[David Kent]

• John 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
• 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
• 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

 

[Davy]

Will you "Cast Away" the very clear teaching of Jesus Christ below?

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom as clearly taught in Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34.

Eternity Begins!

I refuse to do what your doctrine does with casting away the Revelation 20 chapter which was given through Apostle John later.

There will... be a "thousand years" reign over the deceived nations (the unsaved) by Christ Jesus and His elect like Rev.20 declares. That Rev.20 chapter is not the only Bible scripture pointing to that future event...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

About Jerusalem in the future after Christ's return:

Isa 60:14
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
KJV

Zech 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV


1 Cor 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
KJV

Just those Scripture examples alone are enough to show Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect of Rev.20 will be real. At no other time does Jesus with His elect rule over the nations but in that future "thousand years" of Rev.20.

 

[Douggg]

• John 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
• 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
• 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

David, again, it is a matter of when Jesus arrived in Jerusalem as the messiah. When was this verse fulfilled?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

[Douggg]

I know that futurists make the coming of Jesus into Jerusalem as the end of the 69 weeks, but I believe it is only to fit their theory, to make 70th week as future. Some futurists at present and most in the past say it is only the half week that is future. he Early Church Writers also believed that Christ was crucified in the middle of the week.

The 70th week is in Revelation 12. The first half is the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6. The second half, after the war in heaven and Satan cast down to earth, is in Revelation 12:14.

The confirmation that those two verses in Chapter 12 added together are the seven years - is in the status of the crowns on the heads. And no crowns on the horns. (heads in blue, horns in red)

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The crowns on the heads is because king 7 will have come to power as the 7 years are about to begin.... completing the prophecy of the 7 kings in Revelation 17.

The crowns are gone from the heads in Revelation 13, because king 7 will have been killed, ending the prophecy of the 7 kings. That chapter has 42 months left.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads (no crowns) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

_______________________________________________________________________
Like proof - the crowns are not on the horns in Revelation 12, because with 7 years in that chapter, the person has not yet become the beast - that the ten kings rule with the beast.

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns (no crowns), and seven crowns upon his heads.

In Revelation 13, the crowns are on the horns because the person has become the beast.
And the ten kings rule with the beast that last 42 months.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


_____________________________________________________________________

So the 7 year 70th week is found in Revelation 12. And the second half, the 42 months is in Revelation 13.

When I first began studying eschatology, 45 years ago, it would really be something that ate at me, the crowns on the heads and horns - and I had to constantly flip back and forth between chapters 12, 13, 17 trying to get it straight in my head what had crowns when, and when no crowns. Writing things down, trying to understand it.

Now, it is like knowing the back of my hand. I can say with 100% confidence the entire 70th week is ahead of us.

 

[David Kent]

The 70th week is in Revelation 12. The first half is the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6. The second half, after the war in heaven and Satan cast down to earth, is in Revelation 12:14.

The confirmation that those two verses in Chapter 12 added together are the seven years - is in the status of the crowns on the heads. And no crowns on the horns. (heads in blue, horns in red)

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The crowns on the heads is because king 7 will have come to power as the 7 years are about to begin.... completing the prophecy of the 7 kings in Revelation 17.

The crowns are gone from the heads in Revelation 13, because king 7 will have been killed, ending the prophecy of the 7 kings. That chapter has 42 months left.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads (no crowns) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

_______________________________________________________________________
Like proof - the crowns are not on the horns in Revelation 12, because with 7 years in that chapter, the person has not yet become the beast - that the ten kings rule with the beast.

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns (no crowns), and seven crowns upon his heads.

In Revelation 13, the crowns are on the horns because the person has become the beast.
And the ten kings rule with the beast that last 42 months.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


_____________________________________________________________________

So the 7 year 70th week is found in Revelation 12. And the second half, the 42 months is in Revelation 13.

When I first began studying eschatology, 45 years ago, it would really be something that ate at me, the crowns on the heads and horns - and I had to constantly flip back and forth between chapters 12, 13, 17 trying to get it straight in my head what had crowns when, and when no crowns. Writing things down, trying to understand it.

Now, it is like knowing the back of my hand. I can say with 100% confidence the entire 70th week is ahead of us.

That is a lot of nonsense. The Early church writers got it correct and they were writing before the event. They said the let and hindrance in 2 Thess 2 were the Roman Emperor and the Empire. Rome would be overthrown by 10 kings and then would come Antichrist then would come the end of all things,

From history. ten kings did overthrow Rome, they gave their power to the papacy, who is still in power. There is no future 70 weeks, you need to be deprogrammed from Scofieldism.

Christ was the one to confirm the covenant with the Jews.

• Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

What promises could they be but the covenant?

 

[David Kent]

David, again, it is a matter of when Jesus arrived in Jerusalem as the messiah. When was this verse fulfilled?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Messiah/Christ means anointed and Jesus was anointed at his baptism.

 

[Douggg]

That is a lot of nonsense. The Early church writers got it correct and they were writing before the event. They said the let and hindrance in 2 Thess 2 were the Roman Emperor and the Empire. Rome would be overthrown by 10 kings and then would come Antichrist then would come the end of all things,

From history. ten kings did overthrow Rome, they gave their power to the papacy, who is still in power. There is no future 70 weeks, you need to be deprogrammed from Scofieldism.

Christ was the one to confirm the covenant with the Jews.

• Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

What promises could they be but the covenant?

David, I am going to give you a challenge - find one bible commentator that explains why the crowns on the heads and horns change between chapters 12, 13, 17.

The Early church writers got it correct and they were writing before the event.

David, find one of your sources that explains the crowns on the heads and horns in chapters 12, 13, 17, explaining why they are different when comparing those chapters.

The ten kings are still future. Close, but still future. And they do not rule with the beast for "one hour" an expression of a relative short duration of time until - which according to the crowns on the ten horns in Revelation 13, is that last 42 months.

 

[Douggg]

Messiah/Christ means anointed and Jesus was anointed at his baptism.

Messiah/Christ does mean anointed or chosen. Cyrus, for example, was an anointed, or chosen person by God to accomplish a certain task.

But "the" messiah is the promised great Kingdom of Israel, God would send to Israel to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

It is not when Jesus was baptised that he arrived in Jerusalem as the messiah. When was Zechariah 9:9 fulfilled? What event?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 

[Truth7t7]

Dave you falsely state I cast away Revelation 20?

There is no earthly kingdom seen, this represents the spiritual realm of the Lord in Revelation 20:1-6

Angel, devil, Satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ,

How are you gonna claim that a physical kingdom on this earth is seen, you can't.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom as clearly taught in Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34.

Eternity Begins!

I refuse to do what your doctrine does with casting away the Revelation 20 chapter which was given through Apostle John later.

There will... be a "thousand years" reign over the deceived nations (the unsaved) by Christ Jesus and His elect like Rev.20 declares. That Rev.20 chapter is not the only Bible scripture pointing to that future event...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

About Jerusalem in the future after Christ's return:

Isa 60:14
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
KJV

Zech 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV


1 Cor 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
KJV

Just those Scripture examples alone are enough to show Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect of Rev.20 will be real. At no other time does Jesus with His elect rule over the nations but in that future "thousand years" of Rev.20.

 

[David Kent]

David, I am going to give you a challenge - find one bible commentator that explains why the crowns on the heads and horns change between chapters 12, 13, 17.
David, find one of your sources that explains the crowns on the heads and horns in chapters 12, 13, 17, explaining why they are different when comparing those chapters.
The ten kings are still future. Close, but still future. And they do not rule with the beast for "one hour" an expression of a relative short duration of time until - which according to the crowns on the ten horns in Revelation 13, is that last 42 months.

The ten kings are not still future.
Rev 12 refers to the church and the 12 stars in the crown are probably the apostles. The seven crowns show the power at the time the vision applied to was the Roman Empire.
Rev13 The crowns are on the ten horns showing that it refers to the period when the Gothic kings are in power.

 

[Douggg]

The ten kings are not still future.
Rev 12 refers to the church and the 12 stars in the crown are probably the apostles. The seven crowns show the power at the time the vision applied to was the Roman Empire.
Rev13 The crowns are on the ten horns showing that it refers to the period when the Gothic kings are in power.

The church gave birth to Jesus?

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

How about Israel instead, given this verse...

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The seven crowns show the power at the time the vision applied to was the Roman Empire.

Then why aren't there crowns on the heads in Revelation 17 ? The sixth king was ruling at the time of John - the ruler of the Roman Empire.

 

[David Kent]

The church gave birth to Jesus?
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
How about Israel instead, given this verse...
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Then why aren't there crowns on the heads in Revelation 17 ? The sixth king was ruling at the time of John - the ruler of the Roman Empire.

The seven kings of Rome were the types of Government. Kings, 1st republic, 2nd republic. Triumverate, Dictators, Emperors the sixth, the seventh were the 'Christian' emperors, which were then still to come.the papacy was the eighth, the beast that was and not is, but is to come. Julius Cæsar bore the title of Pont Max, the emperors bore that title, Constantine took that title, and the pope now bears that title, a continuous progression. Fulfillment of scripture.

 

[Douggg]

The seven kings of Rome were the types of Government. Kings, 1st republic, 2nd republic. Triumverate, Dictators, Emperors the sixth, the seventh were the 'Christian' emperors, which were then still to come.the papacy was the eighth, the beast that was and not is, but is to come. Julius Cæsar bore the title of Pont Max, the emperors bore that title, Constantine took that title, and the pope now bears that title, a continuous progression. Fulfillment of scripture.

Dictator (Julius Caesar), Triumverate (Octavian, who became emperor as Augustus), Emperors. What is the difference in Julius Caesar, dictator, and Caligula, Nero - as emperors? I don't see a difference in that Caligula and Nero were ruthless dictators.

Julius Caesar was not considered an emperor, btw. Augustus Caesar is considered the first emperor of Rome.

The beast rules for 42 months in Revelation 13:5. The papacy came about in the 3rd or 4th century - so how can the papacy be the beast?

 

[Davy]

Dave you falsely state I cast away Revelation 20?

There is no earthly kingdom seen, this represents the spiritual realm of the Lord in Revelation 20:1-6

Angel, devil, Satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ,

How are you gonna claim that a physical kingdom on this earth is seen, you can't.

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.

Jesus returns in the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom as clearly taught in Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34.

Eternity Begins!

You obviously have yet to understand this which is for after Jesus has returned:

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV


That event is about this, which has not happened yet:

Ps 2:6-12
6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee.

8 Ask of Me, and I shall give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

That is about Jesus reigning... ON EARTH, at Zion in Jerusalem, over ALL nations after His coming, for that has NEVER happened to this day.

 

[parousia70]

Ok you believe the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 66-70AD

Without Question.

1. Do you believe "The Man Of Sin" seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is a future literal human man?

2 Thess 2:4 definitely has a clear fulfillment contemporary with Paul. Paul says the event spoken of was already underway and happening:

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way

Paul says that the son of perdition was being restrained from being revealed at the Temple at the time Paul wrote -- AND, they actually knew who it was that was restraining him. This MUST be past and cannot be future.

2. Do you believe in a literal future return of Jesus Christ in the clouds? Matthew 24:29-31?

Read the following passages, then read Matt 24:29-31.

*cloud-comings of scripture*
Isa 19:1-2; Dan 7:13; 2 Sam 22:10-12; Ps 104:3; Nahum 1:3; Ex 34:5; Ps 97:1-2; Rev 14:14-20.

If you can demonstrate that these OT depictions of God's coming down to earth on the clouds, and Jesus Cloud coming in Revelation 14:14-20 were Physical, literal appearances of Jehovah (or Jesus in the case of Rev 14) upon Cumulus clouds of the earth's atmosphere, visible to the naked human eye and recoded in the annuls of history, then your interpretation of such for Matthew 24:29-31 may hold merit, otherwise You need to adjust your view of Matthew 24:29-31 to harmonize with all previous cloud comings of the Father, for it was in theFathers Glory that Christ said He would come. (and BTW, Revelation 14:14-20 is the same cloud coming as Matthew 24:29-31)

3. Do you believe in a future bodily resurrection of the believer? 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Yeas, each in His own order, for we all have an appointment with physical death, and after that, the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27)

4. Do you believe in a future eternal kingdom? Revelation 21 & Revelation 22

I believe in a present and future eternal Kingdom... eternity stretches both directions, past and future.
Jesus Christ is presently Sitting on the Throne of David in Heaven and Ruling the Heavens and Earth. (Acts 2:29-32) The age of the everlasting Gospel is just that, everlasting.

5. Do you believe in a future eternal lake of fire? Revelation 20:11-15

Again, present and future, yes.

Am I corect to understand that if you believe in a future eternal lake of fire that you hold to ECP instead of Annhilation? That You believe Sin and sinners will exist forever there?

 

[David Kent]

The church gave birth to Jesus?
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
How about Israel instead, given this verse...
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Then why aren't there crowns on the heads in Revelation 17 ? The sixth king was ruling at the time of John - the ruler of the Roman Empire.

seven kings of Rome were the types of Government.

There are no crowns mentioned in Rev 17