Heaven—What is the barebones,minimum requirement to get there?

[Sopranino Player]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. This is the "will of the Father." And Jesus Christ will lose none and will cast out no one who comes to Him.

All who have believed have entered into "rest." (Christ is our Sabbath). Christ has said, "come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Having been born again, passed from death to life, and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, we have absolute assurance and hope, not in ourselves, but in Christ our Saviour.

(at the risk of sounding cliche) Bingo!

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

There are no requirements for salvation. Salvation is a free gift. Believe it and live.

No requirements? says who? Jesus Christ, God Incarnate says otherwise, "repent and believe in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15), without which no person will ever get to heaven!

 

[FireDragon76]

No requirements? says who? Jesus Christ, God Incarnate says otherwise, "repent and believe in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15), without which no person will ever get to heaven!

Repentance is not a work as we understand it.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Repentance is not a work as we understand it.

Explain what it is?

 

[FireDragon76]

Explain what it is?

Repentance means to change ones mind. That's not a work as we understand it, especially when coupled with the command to believe.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Repentance means to change ones mind. That's not a work as we understand it, especially when coupled with the command to believe.

The Bible says that "turning to God from wicked, sinful ways", (repentance), is a "work" (Jonah 3:10), but not in the sense of "earning", but "doing"

 

[FireDragon76]

The Bible says that "turning to God from wicked, sinful ways", (repentance), is a "work" (Jonah 3:10), but not in the sense of "earning", but "doing"

Belief could imply turning away from evil. But not because we do anything for ourselves, but because God does something in us.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Belief could imply turning away from evil. But not because we do anything for ourselves, but because God does something in us.

to turn "from" something means that you turn "to" something else, which is what "repentance" is. Sure God takes the first step, as He did by sending Jonah with the Message of salvation. But the people still needed to "accept and believe" this Message!

 

[FireDragon76]

to turn "from" something means that you turn "to" something else, which is what "repentance" is. Sure God takes the first step, as He did by sending Jonah with the Message of salvation. But the people still needed to "accept and believe" this Message!

We do not see "accepting" salvation as anything but passive, not something we must do. God applies what Christ obtained in salvation to us, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Our justification is not determined by our response to God.

We Lutherans reject "decisional theology" as a result. There is an ordinary means of grace where we can obtain the benefits of Christ's salvation, it is through hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

 

[hedrick]

Jesus sees it as accepting him, which is the same thing as accepting the Kingdom. But he also doesn't separate that from how we treat others. In his teachings about judgement people are judged both for rejecting him or the Kingdom and for failing to show fruit, or in some cases abusing others.

So in my view he doesn't show signs of the opposition between faith and works that we often see. Part of that is because the works Paul was concerned about were specific cultic practices. In his day circumcision. "works" isn't a term I'd use to characterize what Jesus sees as following him, which is a life based on love of neighbor. But there are plenty of Christians today who teach what I think are equivalent cultic practices. Depending upon the branch of Christianity it can be the stereotyped born again experience, speaking in tongues, or even baptism.

There's also no sign in Jesus' teaching of the war against sin that so many people teach. Take a look in a concordance or Bible search program for sin, purity and holiness, and see what you find in the Gospels. For Jesus, being a follower or a "sinner" is about the fundamental direction of our lives. He's far more interested in helping others, forgiving, and not judging than in moral purity.

So I think what Jesus wants is for us to become followers, which is a commitment to showing his love to others.

 

[hedrick]

We do not see "accepting" salvation as anything but passive, not something we must do. God applies what Christ obtained in salvation to us, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Our justification is not determined by our response to God.

We Lutherans reject "decisional theology" as a result. There is an ordinary means of grace where we can obtain the benefits of Christ's salvation, it is through hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

I agree with this as an account of how we end up in the Kingdom, but not necessarily as a definition of salvation.

 

[FireDragon76]

I agree that faith and works are not opposed and this is not what Lutherans teach per se. My objection is to a special kind of religious work, "accepting Jesus", that is no commended in the Scriptures as necessary for our salvation (at least in the way many evangelicals imply).

The works God wants us to do are not necessarily religious at all, and indeed, religion can be misleading in this regard. That's why I believe its important to focus on the ordinary means of grace that Jesus has actually ordained for our salvation. That frees us to focus on the real good works God wants us to do in our lives, which is loving our neighbor.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you liked Harry Ironsides “What is the Gospel” you’re gonna really love this......google this....Renee Rowland lordship salvation.....she’s a real hoot!

Yeah.... it explains the errors in your posts. "real hoot"

 

[hedrick]

My objection is to a special kind of religious work, "accepting Jesus", that is no commended in the Scriptures as necessary for our salvation (at least in the way many evangelicals imply).

Sort of. The demand to "accept Jesus," as a traditionally-defined formal confession, or a stereotyped conversion experience, is on my list of cultic works. But in a broader sense a Christian is by definition a follower of Jesus, so Christians do have Jesus as Lord, and accept his call to be part of his kingdom.

For many of us this isn't a discrete conversion experience, because in the US most Christians grew up as Christians. For us, baptism was actually an entrance into the Kingdom. But still, even if it wasn't a separate decision, we are expected to acknowledge Christ as Lord, and ourselves as committed to living Kingdom lives.

Our theology has to fit both Jesus and Paul. Jesus calls people, and requires that we become his followers. He talks about judging people by their fruit.

I believe he doesn't separate faith and works as much of our theology does. Indeed I think Paul's "faith" actually includes both being a follower and the kind of life that bears fruit. Remember that "pistis" can also be "faithfulness."

My sense is that Paul is trying to distinguish Jesus' life based on love with the Pharisees' life based on checklists, whether cultic checklists like circumcision and the sabbath or moral checklists like the Pharisees' collection of rules to maintain purity.

Lutherans are right to reject Christian moralism. It's a pretty direct equivalent of the Pharisees' approach. But there's a tendency to take the faith / works distinction so far that it makes faith look like intellectual assent, and not a whole lifestyle that includes the direction of our lives.

 

[discipler7]

We do not see "accepting" salvation as anything but passive, not something we must do. God applies what Christ obtained in salvation to us, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Our justification is not determined by our response to God.

We Lutherans reject "decisional theology" as a result. There is an ordinary means of grace where we can obtain the benefits of Christ's salvation, it is through hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

Yes, quite true, but ...
.
ROMANS.7:7 says, "7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law."

ROMANS.6:1 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! "

Something is very wrong when Martin Luther and some Gentile Christians on this thread said that they can continue in sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking unrepentantly and still be saved by faith/grace. It's as if God gave His Law to Moses for nothing and Jesus Christ died on the Cross in vain.
... Seems, such ignorant Gentile Christians have assumed that they have graduated from college(= Christ's salvation message) without the need to first graduate from high-school(= being tutored by the Law).

HEBREWS.10:26-31 says, "
The Just Live by Faith
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

We do not see "accepting" salvation as anything but passive, not something we must do. God applies what Christ obtained in salvation to us, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Our justification is not determined by our response to God.

We Lutherans reject "decisional theology" as a result. There is an ordinary means of grace where we can obtain the benefits of Christ's salvation, it is through hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments.

so, do you believe that repentance of the sinner is not a prerequisite for their salvation?

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes, quite true, but ...
.
ROMANS.7:7 says, "7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law."

ROMANS.6:1 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! "

Something is very wrong when Martin Luther and some Gentile Christians on this thread said that they can continue in sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking unrepentantly and still be saved by faith/grace. It's as if God gave His Law to Moses for nothing and Jesus Christ died on the Cross in vain.

We don't believe in legalism, but we don't believe people should do whatever we want. We do teach ethical behavior and have certain values in our churches consonant with what we see Jesus teaching.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Jesus sees it as accepting him, which is the same thing as accepting the Kingdom. But he also doesn't separate that from how we treat others. In his teachings about judgement people are judged both for rejecting him or the Kingdom and for failing to show fruit, or in some cases abusing others.

So in my view he doesn't show signs of the opposition between faith and works that we often see. Part of that is because the works Paul was concerned about were specific cultic practices. In his day circumcision. "works" isn't a term I'd use to characterize what Jesus sees as following him, which is a life based on love of neighbor. But there are plenty of Christians today who teach what I think are equivalent cultic practices. Depending upon the branch of Christianity it can be the stereotyped born again experience, speaking in tongues, or even baptism.

There's also no sign in Jesus' teaching of the war against sin that so many people teach. Take a look in a concordance or Bible search program for sin, purity and holiness, and see what you find in the Gospels. For Jesus, being a follower or a "sinner" is about the fundamental direction of our lives. He's far more interested in helping others, forgiving, and not judging than in moral purity.

So I think what Jesus wants is for us to become followers, which is a commitment to showing his love to others.

are you saying that there are no "sinners", and that no one needs to "repent" to get to heaven? As for Jesus' "war against sin", which you say is not in Scripture. What do you think Jesus means by His words:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:43-48)

If these words are no "war against sin", as you say, then I don't know what they are!

 

[FireDragon76]

so, do you believe that repentance of the sinner is not a prerequisite for their salvation?

Repentance is due to God's grace in justification.

"Salvation" has so many meanings to so many people I prefer to use more specific terms.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Repentance is due to God's grace in justification.

"Salvation" has so many meanings to so many people I prefer to use more specific terms.

you have not directly answered my question. Does a sinner require to "repent" of their sins BEFORE they can get saved and go to heaven?