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Heaven—What is the barebones,minimum requirement to get there?

discipler7

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They that are in the spirit no longer mind the things of the flesh. And in the flesh, no man can please God. So how did one judge ones sinfulness or righteousness by what is done or put in the body?
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1COR.6:18-20 says, "18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."
 
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FireDragon76

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I really don't have anything against folks who think its important they decided to follow Jesus, but I just wish they would not judge other Christians who perceive their relationship to God differently.

My understanding is that God decided to save me long before I was capable of choosing him. That doesn't mean my faith in God is not real to me, or that I'm lazy. I just realize my decision to "accept Jesus" as a teenager was not where God's story with me began.

It was sort of silly and I felt compelled to do that in the first place out of fear, and didn't show the kind of trust in God I have grown into since. I had come in contact with the generic evangelicals that taught it was necessary, even though I grew up Methodist and we never talked like that about God. They told me in fact God hated sin, and I was a sinner, and I needed to give up sinning and accept Jesus. So I did. And it never really helped me feel OK with God, in fact it made me feel worse, more insecure, because I was never really sure if I had ever really accepted Jesus enough, stopped sinning enough, to be sure I wasn't going to be hurt by God in a big fiery inferno when I died.

So, count me skeptical that "accepting Jesus" is where anybody should look for assurance of God's grace, love, and mercy.

I had a Presbyterian chaplain on a military base where I was at, she tried to guide me into a healthier understanding of God. I'm grateful for people like that in my life. I wish I had listened to them more. I think she would be happy to know I'm no longer neurotically obsessed with a religious mindset that was destroying me.
 
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discipler7

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discipler7 said:
Martin Luther advocated the persecution of Anabaptists and Jews.
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So? So do most groups today, world wide and in the usa.
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Problem is, Martin Luther, the ex-Catholic monk-professor, had previously criticized the Catholic Pope for persecuting him and his co-protesters.
 
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FireDragon76

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Denadii

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Seeing oneself as a lost sinner who needs a Saviour,would be my guess....Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner is adequate to save ,I think.....anybody out there see things differently than I do?
What does the Word say?
Trust in, rely upon, and adhere to Jesus and you will be saved...
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Problem is, Martin Luther, the ex-Catholic monk-professor, had previously criticized the Catholic Pope for persecuting him and his co-protesters.
Why is that a problem ? (other than it is still going on today, full force)(spiritual battle, life and death for multitudes)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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When you die, don't be surprised if God proclaims your faults in the same way.
That is what we all look forward to -
for anything, any sin, not covered by the blood of Jesus.
That is why we warn each other daily "go and sin no more".
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Yeah.... it explains the errors in your posts. "real hoot"



You are the only person on this planet that would reach that conclusion...she detests everything you “stand” for and you don’t even see it.....”seeing ,but they don’t see” Jesus is proven right again—as always.I would ask you for proof how she explains my errors but I prefer to shake the dust off my feet.i will pray that God opens your eyes..God bless
 
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discipler7

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They told me in fact God hated sin, and I was a sinner, and I needed to give up sinning and accept Jesus. So I did. And it never really helped me feel OK with God, in fact it made me feel worse, more insecure, because I was never really sure if I had ever really accepted Jesus enough, stopped sinning enough, to be sure I wasn't going to be hurt by God in a big fiery inferno when I died.

So, count me skeptical that "accepting Jesus" is where anybody should look for assurance of God's grace, love, and mercy.
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HEBREWS.8:10 says, " 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

This verse referred to the early Jewish Christians like the apostles, in whom it was easy for God to put His Law since Jews kept Moses Law or God's Law from childhood.
... Not so for most new Gentile Christian adults who had usually led lawless lives from childhood. So, for God to put His Law into them, such Gentile Christians should "eat the bread or body of Christ", ie study and 'digest' the non-burdensome parts of God's Law/Word/commandments, eg EXODUS.20, LEV.18:22 & 10:9, DEUT.18:9-14 & 15:11, etc. If such Gentile Christians neglect to do this, they often remain in ignorant sinfulness or lawlessness and ...
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P S - Drinking the wine or blood of Jesus Christ means the atonement of our inborn Adam's Original Sin which atonement gifts us the kingdom of heaven.(LEV.17:11, HEBREWS.9:22, ROMANS.5:12)
... The Holy Communion is a memorial to the Passion of Christ.
 
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discipler7

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Why is that a problem ? (other than it is still going on today, full force)(spiritual battle, life and death for multitudes)
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When the persecuted went on to persecute others, It shows the extra problem of hypocrisy, non-compassion and non-mercy.
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It's a bit different when the powerful, proud and self-righteous go and persecute others.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, said this:
Romans 7:15-25English Standard Version (ESV)
15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not wantit is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.


I find it ironic you address this to me ,the guy who presented a Biblically sound missive on how “ the righteous shall live by faith”, sincerely trying to help somebody and you ignore the blind man that called it “useless” . I would never compare myself to Paul,but we have one thing in common...we dont take lightly those that would insult his Gospel thAt saves....he called them “perverts”... not too “ loving “ was it..".reread tolworth in post #76 , then read my posts 63 and 65 and see who needs the lecture in love.i need plenty of prayers and I am not above being lectured and I believe your concern for me is sincere but misplaced in this matter.God bless
 
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Heart2Soul

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I find it ironic you address this to me ,the guy who presented a Biblically sound missive on how “ the righteous shall live by faith”, sincerely trying to help somebody and you ignore the blind man that called it “useless” . I would never compare myself to Paul,but we have one thing in common...we dont take lightly those that would insult his Gospel thAt saves....he called them “perverts”... not too “ loving “ was it..".reread tolworth in post #76 , then read my posts 63 and 65 and see who needs the lecture in love.i need plenty of prayers and I am not above being lectured and I believe your concern for me is sincere but misplaced in this matter.God bless
I am totally confused..was the thread about what the barebone minimum is to get to heaven...I just simply gave a scripture that let's us know that even though we are born again spiritually we will always war with our flesh. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are saved then you have done all that is required. Jesus did the rest. God Bless.
 
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Marvin Knox

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I would agree but I would also say that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that was be referred to in the passage is also the knowledge of God's truth that the Pharissees had and yet they still attributed Jesus' miracles to the devil. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is knowing the truth of God and mocking it, showing an unregenerate heart.
I agree that they were without excuse.

Not only did they have a great deal of knowledge about God. But that knowledge included the fact that there was a coming Messiah.

What they did not do was believe the signs which point to Jesus as that Messiah. Rather they attributed those signs to Satan.

In so doing - they equated the Holy Spirit with Satan by their pronouncement (speech) about the miracles which He provided.

It appears that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be done in ignorance. But, in this case, that ignorance was born of religious pride and therefore without excuse.

But it seems to me (and most of us I would suppose) that someone could initially feel the same way about the miracles of Jesus and yet repent and change their mind and make the correct pronouncement.

In that case, I would think, they would not be guilty having done so in a legitimate temporary ignorance and not a stubborn prideful ignorance.

Again - such analysis (correct though it may turn out to be) is one arrived at through systematic theology rather than a plain reading only of the text.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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I am totally confused..was the thread about what the barebone minimum is to get to heaven...I just simply gave a scripture that let's us know that even though we are born again spiritually we will always war with our flesh. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are saved then you have done all that is required. Jesus did the rest. God Bless.



Heart.....lol....I think I goofed. .....no way was this meant for you. Please accept my apologies! God bless
 
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discipler7

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discipler7 said:
Martin Luther advocated the persecution of Anabaptists and Jews.
.
When you die, don't be surprised if God proclaims your faults in the same way.
Luther's faults probably stemmed from his incomplete and erroneous teaching that Christians will still be 100% saved by faith/grace even though they willingly commit sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking unrepentantly.

He seemed obsessed by the verse of Paul at GAL.2:16 which says, "justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law".
... All Paul was saying is that Christians should not seek to be saved by the Law but by faith in Christ. The Jews seek to be saved by the Law. Hence, it was wrong for the Judaizers to require new Gentile Christians to keep the whole Law, eg circumcision.
... But this does not mean that Paul was telling the Gentile Christians that they did not need to keep the Law or that they could ignore the Law.(cf; ACTS.15:24-29, 1COR.6:9-11). Martin Luther was wrongly teaching Gentile Christians that they could willingly break the Law or sin and still be saved by faith in Christ.
... This kind of lawlessness carries the grave risk of losing their salvation, eg while suffering for their sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking, they curse/blaspheme God and die.(JOB.2:9, 1COR.5:5)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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When the persecuted went on to persecute others, It shows the extra problem of hypocrisy, non-compassion and non-mercy.
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It's a bit different when the powerful, proud and self-righteous go and persecute others.
The true ekklesia immersed in Yeshua's Name never* went on to persecute others, even after horrendous trials and beatings and arrests and executions and opposition and oppression against us/them.

*unless, of course, they changed sides. (fell away/ joined the rampant apostasy)
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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Having grown up attending a Lutheran church, (my parents still attend there) I do find that troubling.

The problem is that many take those verses where Jesus says those who "do good" will have eternal life, out of context. Those verses are not referring to our "good works" at all, but rather, to our faith in Christ. We can see this clearly if we look at the surrounding verses to see what Jesus was teaching in proper context:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. - John 5:24-29

Jesus is absolutely clear, they that hear His word and believe do have "everlasting life", shall not come into condemnation and have "passed from death to life."

We know that this life eternal is in the Son, and that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus is not teaching works based salvation here (nor does He anywhere else). "Doing good" is to hear and believe. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works. It is the gift of God.

Jesus also says this:

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. - John 6:27-40

All that you have quoted from the Bible, is speaking of the "good works" expected of the believer AFTER they are saved, and not to "attain" salvation!
 
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amariselle

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All that you have quoted from the Bible, is speaking of the "good works" expected of the believer AFTER they are saved, and not to "attain" salvation!

When did I say that our "good works" attain salvation?

And actually, those verses I quoted do not speak of our "good works" at all, but of believing on Christ (the "will of the Father.")

As I said in that post:

"Those verses are not referring to our 'good works' at all, but rather, to our faith in Christ."

And, as I also said:

"Jesus is not teaching a works based salvation here. (Nor does He anywhere else).

It seems you misunderstood my post or did not read it through, as you seem to think I was supporting salvation based on our works, and I was not.

Please go back and read the entirety of what I wrote if you have any questions.

Thank you and God bless.
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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When did I say that our "good works" attain salvation?

And actually, those verses I quoted do not speak of our "good works" at all, but of believing on Christ (the "will of the Father.")

As I said in that post:

"Those verses are not referring to our 'good works' at all, but rather, to our faith in Christ."

And, as I also said:

"Jesus is not teaching a works based salvation here. (Nor does He anywhere else).

It seems you misunderstood my post or did not read it through, as you seem to think I was supporting salvation based on our works, and I was not.

Please go back and read the entirety of what I wrote if you have any questions.

Thank you and God bless.

Apologies, I misread what you wrote
 
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