Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

[Vicomte13]

Secularism is the most likely threat. I do not think Islam is much of a threat in the long term, as the bulk of how it is practiced will not withstand modernity.

I perceive things differently, from an essentially Darwinian position.

Since the onset of birth control - particularly the Pill in 1961 - the "white" birth rate has imploded all over the world. No white population in any country is at replacement level, all are aging, and all have children well below the replacement rate. In all "white" countries, immigrant minorities and their domestically born children, are coming into the world at higher and higher rates, and the native "white" populations are plunging everywhere - due to contraception and abortion.

There is not one "white" country where this is not true.

The replacement populations differ by region. Everywhere in Europe, the replacement populations are Muslim. (In Russia, the replacement populations are Muslim and East Asian.) In America, the replacement population is mostly Latino.)

The percentage of Catholics in the society has grown dramatically, and will continue to do so, inevitably, because Latinos are overwhelmingly Catholic. Sure, there is some conversion, but mostly Latinos come in Catholics, and stay Catholic, and have a lot more children than whites. There is nothing that can break this trend other than a rise in the white birth rate, and there is not even a faint cloud of hope of that on the horizon. Rather, as the white population ages, the fertility rate spirals downward. America's future is to be a Spanish-speaking Catholic country.

As you may expect, I have no trouble with this at all.

But Europe is a different story. The same demographic death spiral is at work there too, but the Europeans are much farther down the spiral. They are older. They have lower fertility and fewer babies. And their countries are not filling up with Catholics - they are filling up with Muslims.

Islam is not weakening in Europe, at all. It is strong, growing, and increasingly confident that, with time, Islam will prevail. There is no particular reason, looking at Islam, to have any basis for hope of any modification. Islam is becoming more aggressive and conservative, not less so.

If I were a betting man, I would say that the most likely future of the United States and Canada are to become Los Estados Unidos Norte Americanos - and for the Latino majority to adopt the birth control habits of the whites, eventually.

I would say that the likely future of Europe is Sharia 2070.
I see nothing indicating any likelihood that course will be reversed. Religiously, Christianity in Europe is shriveled and moribund, a cultural echo, not something that any more than 10% of the population really practices. There are more convicted atheists and seculars than practicing Christians. But the atheists and seculars are contracepting their future away too. The Muslims are not, and their religious sense has strengthened in the past 30 years, not weakened. They are winning, and they know it. They view the demographic death spiral of the European population as the judgment of God, as God giving them the continent. It is the manifest destiny of the Islam to incorporate Europe within its boundaries. The Muslims believe that this i the judgement of God, and they believe that with the same intensity - and for the same basic reasons - that the Americans believed that it was America's manifest destiny to sweep aside the Indians and control the continent.

The situation is dire and the hour is late, but the things required to reverse the trend are not on the cards.

 

[FireDragon76]

I actually live in a heavily Hispanic area and there are alot of Pentecostal churches here, many meeting in worn-down strip malls. I think there are more hispanic Catholics theoretically than actually practice the religion.

Birth rates are declining around the world. What's really causing population growth is increased life expectancy.

The birthrate for Muslims will slow as they assimilate into the societies in which they live. In the US and parts of Europe we are even seeing the beginnings of liberal Muslims and secular Muslims- people that identify with the culture but have liberal views on a range of issues. There are gay imams and gay mosques now. That doesn't mean I think the prediction I made will happen overnight, it will probably take several centuries as a conservative estimate.

There are also a sizeable number of Muslims converting to Christianity in Europe. I do not think it is a case that Muslims will just outbreed native Europeans. Some will leave the religion, others will become secular. We may have a more religiously and ethnicly pluralistic Europe but I don't think it will be Muslim-dominated.

 

[Vicomte13]

I actually live in a heavily Hispanic area and there are alot of Pentecostal churches here, many meeting in worn-down strip malls. I think there are more hispanic Catholics theoretically than actually practice the religion.

Birth rates are declining around the world. What's really causing population growth is increased life expectancy.

The birthrate for Muslims will slow as they assimilate into the societies in which they live. In the US and parts of Europe we are even seeing the beginnings of liberal Muslims and secular Muslims- people that identify with the culture but have liberal views on a range of issues. There are gay imams and gay mosques now. That doesn't mean I think the prediction I made will happen overnight, it will probably take several centuries as a conservative estimate.

There are also a sizeable number of Muslims converting to Christianity in Europe. I do not think it is a case that Muslims will just outbreed native Europeans. Some will leave the religion, others will become secular. We may have a more religiously and ethnicly pluralistic Europe but I don't think it will be Muslim-dominated.

Only time will tell. All sorts of things happen on the margins. I'll color you optimistic on the matter.

 

[Monk Brendan]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

What will you do with the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, and so on. Most of the Protestants on these fora do not believe that Catholics can BE Christians.

And to be honest, only those Churches that are from before the Reformation (Pre-Reformation) are the ones that are obeying the Apostles. Most of the Reformers and their followers can't abide sound doctrine--and that is why there is a multitude of denominations.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Remember that one externally imposed uniformity by religious leaders would not be the mind of God; it's for every believer to search the Scriptures personally; and for every congregation large or small to take responsibility before God. Letting someone else impose uniformity on oneself and one's congregation is a cop out and would have little to do with having one's conscience stirred by the Holy Spirit about the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

First of all, I have a problem with your line of asking every believer to search the Scriptures, with the idea that the will be able to understand ALL of the various meanings in a passage. That, itself is not Scriptural, for 2Peter 1:10 says, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

So right from the beginning, the idea is messed up.

 

[Monk Brendan]

This is why I'm non-denominational. I'm not going to fall for the lies that one group is the REAL DEAL and everyone else are heretics.

[I like the Runes on the picture, what do they mean?)

There is really no such thing as non-denominational. In truth, a lot of such churches are spite churches, where a church has split, and the losers of the break-up have taken another name, found a new pastor, found a building they can rent or buy, and made that THEIR non-denominational church. Non-denominational simply means that there is a denomination of ONE congregation. I've been through a couple of such things, and they are always messy, there are bad feelings all around, and everyone ends up spiritually wounded and poorer.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Most of the Protestants on these fora do not believe that Catholics can BE Christians.

And to be honest...

"To be honest" you'd have to admit that the previous sentence is an accusation with no factual support.

 

[Blade]

Well praise GOD all things are possible with our Father. Yet..He does not see what we do. We see how decided we are. He sees one body. Its Jesus came in the flesh.. died for the worlds sins. And was buried. Rose the 3rd day. Is the only way to the Father. That makes us one body. There is only ONE vine. And TONS and I mean TONS of branches.

Some just forget were all connected to that VINE

 

[MichaelEric]

This is why I'm non-denominational. I'm not going to fall for the lies that one group is the REAL DEAL and everyone else are heretics.

Not every group has this attitude. There are large denominations wherein disagreement and diversity of opinion aren't outlawed. I also don't really get how one can be "non-denominational". Doesn't this just mean you've split off from the rest and formed yet another (if tiny) denomination? What's the difference between a small denomination and a non-denomination? Just that one of them doesn't have an official name?

 

[Saucy]

Not every group has this attitude. There are large denominations wherein disagreement and diversity of opinion aren't outlawed. I also don't really get how one can be "non-denominational". Doesn't this just mean you've split off from the rest and formed yet another (if tiny) denomination? What's the difference between a small denomination and a non-denomination? Just that one of them doesn't have an official name?

When I became a Christian, my early times were being taught about accepting and loving everyone. We focused on the bible and its teachings. We studied doctrine, loved and fellowshipped, took care of the poor, etc.

But there were other churches I've been to who did the same, but they were a part of a larger denomination group. I think one were baptists. It seemed they had their own ideas and if you were to use the title 'baptist', then you had to conform to the baptist ideals and ideology. If you want to become a Catholic, then you need to study the Catechism and all of that. I don't believe that. I think Christ's gift made it easy to become a Christian. He is not willing that any should perish. Why do churches add these different rules and regulations?

One church has a strict dress code. Another says you can't meat on such and such days. Another forbids wine. Why all these different things? Have you ever heard Christians say, "It's not a religion, it's a relationship?" That's sort of the camp I'm in. We try to be solidified in Christ and the bible only, not manmade traditions.

 

[MichaelEric]

That's sort of the camp I'm in. We try to be solidified in Christ and the bible only, not manmade traditions.

All very understandable, but it still sounds like yet another denomination to me. You say you don't understand why other groups have rules, and regulations, and certain beliefs, and that's fine, but it sounds like you also have your own set of rules and beliefs. Just don't kid yourself that you're doing anything more, particularly, to unite the Universal Church with your way of doing things than any other group is.

 

[Monk Brendan]

"To be honest" you'd have to admit that the previous sentence is an accusation with no factual support.

Forgive me, but I even started a thread like that, and I received so little support and so much hatred that I had to close the thread. AND someone reported me for the thread, and I got banned for 30 days.

Forgive me, mods, but I am only answering a question.

 

[tulipbee]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

to me, theomatics, numerical patterns in the 66 book bible, proves God to be the author of the bible. if that is so and men views the writers to contradict themselves and argue among themselves, then we didn't get God. We are not getting to know God. if denominations use the same bible and claim the holy spirit is moving their church while we see contradictions then we don't get the holy spirit. the reason the roman denomination got corrupted cause they see God as authorizing their traditions. denominations are doing the same thing, each inventing their own traditions. We all need to view God in a different way to understand why he arranged those circumstances. I see God differently. that's why folks, here, tells me I'm from the devil. they leave low quality responses. God authored all those denominations. Why? you explain. Go!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Unification is easy. Let's all (except me) throw our beliefs away, and let everybody accept mine.

You don't like that? Thought not.

Yup. Everyone thinks it is so easy with Billons of Christians

 

[ToBeLoved]

I perceive things differently, from an essentially Darwinian position.

Since the onset of birth control - particularly the Pill in 1961 - the "white" birth rate has imploded all over the world. No white population in any country is at replacement level, all are aging, and all have children well below the replacement rate. In all "white" countries, immigrant minorities and their domestically born children, are coming into the world at higher and higher rates, and the native "white" populations are plunging everywhere - due to contraception and abortion.

There is not one "white" country where this is not true.

The replacement populations differ by region. Everywhere in Europe, the replacement populations are Muslim. (In Russia, the replacement populations are Muslim and East Asian.) In America, the replacement population is mostly Latino.)

The percentage of Catholics in the society has grown dramatically, and will continue to do so, inevitably, because Latinos are overwhelmingly Catholic. Sure, there is some conversion, but mostly Latinos come in Catholics, and stay Catholic, and have a lot more children than whites. There is nothing that can break this trend other than a rise in the white birth rate, and there is not even a faint cloud of hope of that on the horizon. Rather, as the white population ages, the fertility rate spirals downward. America's future is to be a Spanish-speaking Catholic country.

As you may expect, I have no trouble with this at all.

But Europe is a different story. The same demographic death spiral is at work there too, but the Europeans are much farther down the spiral. They are older. They have lower fertility and fewer babies. And their countries are not filling up with Catholics - they are filling up with Muslims.

Islam is not weakening in Europe, at all. It is strong, growing, and increasingly confident that, with time, Islam will prevail. There is no particular reason, looking at Islam, to have any basis for hope of any modification. Islam is becoming more aggressive and conservative, not less so.

If I were a betting man, I would say that the most likely future of the United States and Canada are to become Los Estados Unidos Norte Americanos - and for the Latino majority to adopt the birth control habits of the whites, eventually.

I would say that the likely future of Europe is Sharia 2070.
I see nothing indicating any likelihood that course will be reversed. Religiously, Christianity in Europe is shriveled and moribund, a cultural echo, not something that any more than 10% of the population really practices. There are more convicted atheists and seculars than practicing Christians. But the atheists and seculars are contracepting their future away too. The Muslims are not, and their religious sense has strengthened in the past 30 years, not weakened. They are winning, and they know it. They view the demographic death spiral of the European population as the judgment of God, as God giving them the continent. It is the manifest destiny of the Islam to incorporate Europe within its boundaries. The Muslims believe that this i the judgement of God, and they believe that with the same intensity - and for the same basic reasons - that the Americans believed that it was America's manifest destiny to sweep aside the Indians and control the continent.

The situation is dire and the hour is late, but the things required to reverse the trend are not on the cards.

I take it, per the thread title, you don’t see that spiritually there is any hope. Is your God in control or not?

 

[ToBeLoved]

When I became a Christian, my early times were being taught about accepting and loving everyone. We focused on the bible and its teachings. We studied doctrine, loved and fellowshipped, took care of the poor, etc.

But there were other churches I've been to who did the same, but they were a part of a larger denomination group. I think one were baptists. It seemed they had their own ideas and if you were to use the title 'baptist', then you had to conform to the baptist ideals and ideology. If you want to become a Catholic, then you need to study the Catechism and all of that. I don't believe that. I think Christ's gift made it easy to become a Christian. He is not willing that any should perish. Why do churches add these different rules and regulations?

One church has a strict dress code. Another says you can't meat on such and such days. Another forbids wine. Why all these different things? Have you ever heard Christians say, "It's not a religion, it's a relationship?" That's sort of the camp I'm in. We try to be solidified in Christ and the bible only, not manmade traditions.

Not all denominations even follow or believe the Bible is the authority on matters.

But I think that’s why Christ made it simple. He saw this would happen. There are billions of us. And with that many people, beliefs
And levels of faith are expected

 

[Vicomte13]

I take it, per the thread title, you don’t see that spiritually there is any hope. Is your God in control or not?

He's in control. He could stop us all from sinning. He chooses to leave us to do what we will with our free will. Then he kills us all and, eventually, judges us all.

We already know the end of the story: we fail, we lose, evil triumphs on earth - and THEN Jesus returns to set it aright.

So, if we actually perceive what we read, we realize that we who remain loyal to God are fighting the long defeat. Sometimes we see glimmers of the future victory, but mankind loses the battle with Satan. Satan beats our race. Then God comes back and saves us himself.

As a race, we're done. Only individuals get past final judgment.

It would be great if we could rewrite the story to have a better ending for many. But we can't. None of us gets out of here alive with anything but our spirits, and we can only choose for ourselves individually what we each will individually do.

I would love to teach the world and save it, but the world doesn't want to be saved. Only individuals in the world want that, and as a tribe, they lose the world in the end.

The good news is that eventually they are given it back, and there is nothing left of the bad in it.

So we can look forward to that, even as we walk in the shadow of the valley of death while we wait for Shiloh to come.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What will you do with the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, and so on. Most of the Protestants on these fora do not believe that Catholics can BE Christians.

And to be honest, only those Churches that are from before the Reformation (Pre-Reformation) are the ones that are obeying the Apostles. Most of the Reformers and their followers can't abide sound doctrine--and that is why there is a multitude of denominations.

Sounds like you have no idea what Protestants believe.

 

[ToBeLoved]

He's in control. He could stop us all from sinning. He chooses to leave us to do what we will with our free will. Then he kills us all and, eventually, judges us all.

We already know the end of the story: we fail, we lose, evil triumphs on earth - and THEN Jesus returns to set it aright.

So, if we actually perceive what we read, we realize that we who remain loyal to God are fighting the long defeat. Sometimes we see glimmers of the future victory, but mankind loses the battle with Satan. Satan beats our race. Then God comes back and saves us himself.

As a race, we're done. Only individuals get past final judgment.

It would be great if we could rewrite the story to have a better ending for many. But we can't. None of us gets out of here alive with anything but our spirits, and we can only choose for ourselves individually what we each will individually do.

I would love to teach the world and save it, but the world doesn't want to be saved. Only individuals in the world want that, and as a tribe, they lose the world in the end.

The good news is that eventually they are given it back, and there is nothing left of the bad in it.

So we can look forward to that, even as we walk in the shadow of the valley of death while we wait for Shiloh to come.

So how does
That relate to your race
Predictions

 

[Vicomte13]

So how does
That relate to your race
Predictions

The repopulation of America by Latin Catholics is a good thing, because it will move the needle back towards God and regain some ground, temporarily, before they copy the morals and practices of the people they replace, like the Israelites copied the Canaanites and eventually, in their turn, were destroyed by God for the same reason the Canaanites were.

The advance of Islam in Europe, as Christianity dies off, is the advancing tide of darkness. It is the vehicle by which Christianity will be suppressed and driven out. Islam will not be defeated by men, but will advance as the primary organized religion of Satan. ANd it will under the banner of Mohammed and the Crescent Moon that the bulk of evil surviving mankind will face Jesus and the angels when they return at the end.

The remnant that remains faithful will be in the corners of the earth - the edges and jungles of South America, little bits and pieces of islands. The Muslims are right that they have the momentum. Unfortunately they do not perceive the source of their spiritual energy. "You will know them by their fruits."

Look at their fruits. That's how you know.